Timber flooring on battens over under-floor heating.

mrjoneill

Timber flooring on battens over under-floor heating.

I have two 19 sq M rooms connected by a dividing double door that I want to lay timber floors on. I have under-floor heating installed in the concrete screed and I have a gap of approx 100mm from the top of the screed to the skirting board which I plan to put battens and to lay suitable flooring. I have sought vendors advice on the suitability of what type of flooring is best but it’s confusing the advice ranging from solid to engineered flooring.

Wally Runs

Engineered flooring laid (Glued) directly on to the screed! If only because that is how I have it done. I understand you are best to keep the air gap between the heat source (Screed) and emitter (the flooring) to a minimum. Nice solid feel to the floor when glued down too.

BarneyMc

What's "Engineered flooring"?

Wally Runs

BarneyMc wrote: »

What's "Engineered flooring"?

Engineered wood flooring is composed of two or more layers of wood in the form of a plank. The top layer (lamella) is the wood that is visible when the flooring is installed and is adhered to the core. The increased stability of engineered wood is achieved by running each layer at a 90° angle to the layer above. This stability makes it a universal product that can be installed over all types of subfloors above, below or on grade. Engineered wood is the most common type of wood flooring used globally.

Engineered wood flooring has other benefits beyond dimensional stability and universal use. Patented installation systems allow for faster installation and easy replacement of boards. Engineered wood also allows for a floating installation where the planks are not adhered to the subfloor or to each other, further increasing ease of repair and reducing installation time. Engineered flooring is also suitable for underfloor and radiant heating systems.

mrjoneill

My understanding of engineered flooring is a sandwich of veneer with a solid wood top. I understand of the method of the wood directly glued to the screed but I have come to this situation without realizing the warping difficulty ufh presents to flooring. I would hope to be able to install vents in the flooring at the corners which would allow the release of the build up of heat off the ufh screed. The advice I really seek what would be the most durable form of flooring to put on batons and if anyone has experiences of installing such flooring on batons over the ufh screed.

BarneyMc

mrjoneill wrote: »

I would hope to be able to install vents in the flooring at the corners which would allow the release of the build up of heat off the ufh screed.

Surely not? :eek:

mrjoneill

These would fit in nicely and overcome the build up of heat underneath the timber floor

http://www.sheogaflooring.com/flooring/unfinished/vents/

sinnerboy

mrjoneill wrote: »

if anyone has experiences of installing such flooring on batons over the ufh screed.

Do not do this or you will remain cold. Either bond or float only engineered wood products onto the screed.

fclauson

also be aware that even engineered timber can suffer in a low humidity house

it has been know to split and crack :eek:

sydthebeat

mrjoneill wrote: »

.... I would hope to be able to install vents in the flooring at the corners which would allow the release of the build up of heat off the ufh screed. .....

good god no, UFH is designed to emit heat in a radiant fashion thus allowing heat to be warmer from gorund up, which suits us humans are we are coldest from feet up.

Vents like that would cause a convection air current around rooms, which totally goes against UFH principles.

Get your timber onto the screed.

mrjoneill

sydthebeat wrote: »

good god no, UFH is designed to emit heat in a radiant fashion thus allowing heat to be warmer from gorund up, which suits us humans are we are coldest from feet up.

Vents like that would cause a convection air current around rooms, which totally goes against UFH principles.

Get your timber onto the screed.

Don’t think that is the solution as I have the ufl heating already laid in 100mm of screed and putting a further 100mm would be too much and take too long to get practical results from.
My hallway and kitchen the screeded to the surface so I won’t have this problem.
So I have to work out an alternative solution that does not cause a buckled floor and the release of some heat. I have also inc radiators and plan to install a solid fuel burning stove in one of the rooms.

sydthebeat

mrjoneill wrote: »

Don’t think that is the solution as I have the ufl heating already laid in 100mm of screed and putting a further 100mm would be too much and take too long to get practical results from.
My hallway and kitchen the screeded to the surface so I won’t have this problem.
So I have to work out an alternative solution that does not cause a buckled floor and the release of some heat. I have also inc radiators and plan to install a solid fuel burning stove in one of the rooms.

im not advising that at all?????

mrjoneill

sydthebeat wrote: »

im not advising that at all?????

What are my other options.......... I have to bring the 2 rooms up to the level of the hallway, its an old house I'm renovating.

sydthebeat

mrjoneill wrote: »

What are my other options.......... I have to bring the 2 rooms up to the level of the hallway, its an old house I'm renovating.

sorry, i read your post in a different manner

lets brush over the obvious question of why you finished your screed 100 mm below your proposed finished level .....

i see your only option is to drop the skirtings, archs, etc ... new doors.... create the 100mm steps somewhere clear and away from door swings.

mrjoneill

I did not think there would be a problem putting ufh under a baton supported timber floor, suppose I like the effect of a timber suspended floor. As for the different levels it would not work out as there are new pvc french doors to the outside and it would be like climbing out of a hole and would be totally at odds with the necessity of having the floor level at the same level or slightly higher than the outside surface and the same would apply for the hallway and kitchen. My only option is a less effective ufh on timber flooring that wont buckle.

sinnerboy

Give serious thought to abondoning the ufh loops now and install rads.

brophis

Could it be an option to put in new ufh loops where you're building up the floor? Could maybe even put 100mm insulation down beneath the floor?

mrjoneill

There must be an alternative option as I have experienced central heating boiler lines with radiator tap off joints going through suspended floors and it was using tg white deal without any difficulty in floors warping and the room that such was passing through had a nice warm feel to it with warm floor boards. I appreciate the point that I did not understand at the time of instillation of the ufh pipes that it best operates on radiated heat rather than convection currents.
Still think my intermediate solution is either in engineered or a solid hardwood laid on 3 x 2 inches with the option of vents in the corners to deal with excess heat being released.

sydthebeat

mrjoneill wrote: »

There must be an alternative option as I have experienced central heating boiler lines with radiator tap off joints going through suspended floors and it was using tg white deal without any difficulty in floors warping and the room that such was passing through had a nice warm feel to it with warm floor boards. I appreciate the point that I did not understand at the time of instillation of the ufh pipes that it best operates on radiated heat rather than convection currents.
Still think my intermediate solution is either in engineered or a solid hardwood laid on 3 x 2 inches with the option of vents in the corners to deal with excess heat being released.

yeah, theres no problem bringing rad pipes through suspended floors.

Another possibility would be to do just that, close off your room UFH loops and spur off to low temp radiators, oversized for those rooms.

personally i think your suspended floor over the UFH screed with grill vents in the floor would be a disaster and lead to cold rooms. I cannot comment on the insulative and air tight properties of the rest of the house, but as its a retrofit, what you can do in these aspects are limited.

Perhaps fitting a flooring type that butts together with no clip loc, then by shrinking youd end up with regular small gaps between al the boards to act as your grill over a more even space??

sinnerboy

mrjoneill

Perhaps fitting a flooring type that butts together with no clip loc, then by shrinking youd end up with regular small gaps between al the boards to act as your grill over a more even space??

What would you recommend in timber/flooring type.

I have done a superb job in insulation all the outside walls inside with foil rapping (which has an equiv of 60mm foam insulation) and on top of that 50mm insulated plasterboard and there is big exposure to passive heating from the sun.