Buying A4 without Alarm

magic_murph

Set to buy a 2010 A4 S-line but as standard these machine don't come with Alarm only Imobiliser.

Just wondering.
How big of a job is it to retro fit an alarm,
Is it really required if the imobiliser is working
What cost would I be looking at ?

Cheers

Anan1

Unless you leave valuables in the car I can't see the point.

djimi

I spent €750 on a Clifford for my car. My girlfriend spent €200 on a Cobra system which seems to do the job. Depends on what you are looking for I guess!

Unless you leave valuables in the car I can't see the point.

The alarm in my car saved it from being stolen; the scum scarpered when it started going off. Even if its just for piece of mind there is no way I would have a car that is in any desirable to thieves and not have an alarm in it.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

The alarm in my car saved it from being stolen; the scum scarpered when it started going off. Even if its just for piece of mind there is no way I would have a car that is in any desirable to thieves and not have an alarm in it.

Realistically, the car's going nowhere without the key.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Realistically, the car's going nowhere without the key.

Perhaps, but even if all the alarm meant was that the opportunist scumbag saw the flashing light and decided not to bother, isnt it worth the extra piece of mind for the sake of a couple of hundred quid?

Each to their own and all that, but there is no way on earth I would own a car that is in any way valuable to me without having it alarmed.

sebastianlieken

djimi wrote: »

Perhaps, but even if all the alarm meant was that the opportunist scumbag saw the flashing light and decided not to bother, isnt it worth the extra piece of mind for the sake of a couple of hundred quid?

Each to their own and all that, but there is no way on earth I would own a car that is in any way valuable to me without having it alarmed.

The immobilisor has a flashing light aswell though. As far as the oppertunistic scumbag can tell, the car has an alarm fitted as standard.

magic_murph

Cheers lads - and how about the installation - is it a complicated process and what would the main differences be between a 300quid alarm and a more premium version?

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Perhaps, but even if all the alarm meant was that the opportunist scumbag saw the flashing light and decided not to bother, isnt it worth the extra piece of mind for the sake of a couple of hundred quid?

Each to their own and all that, but there is no way on earth I would own a car that is in any way valuable to me without having it alarmed.

If they want to take the car they'll look for the key (and the alarm fob with it), so the alarm is irrelevant. I honestly can't see any advantage beyond a degree of protection for the contents.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

If they want to take the car they'll look for the key (and the alarm fob with it), so the alarm is irrelevant. I honestly can't see any advantage beyond a degree of protection for the contents.

Which is fine if the car is parked at home; its the other 50% of the time its not parked outside my house that I have the alarm to protect it.

Like I said, each to their own.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Which is fine if the car is parked at home; its the other 50% of the time its not parked outside my house that I have the alarm to protect it.

Like I said, each to their own.

Regardless of where it's parked, I don't understand how you think that an alarm can prevent the car from being stolen? If they have the keys the alarm is irrelevant because they have the fob, if they don't have the keys the alarm is irrelevant because the car won't start without the key. Or am I missing something?

Eric Cartman

better off and probably cheaper to fit a GPS tracker.

aside from that, go to an audi dealer and see what the cost is for the factory alarm, it could be like cruise control in some cars where its just a software feature they turn on for 200 quid , rather than butcher half the wiring looms in your car and fit an aftermarket alarm.

djimi

Anan1 wrote: »

Regardless of where it's parked, I don't understand how you think that an alarm can prevent the car from being stolen? If they have the keys the alarm is irrelevant because they have the fob, if they don't have the keys the alarm is irrelevant because the car won't start without the key. Or am I missing something?

Probably more of an issue for older cars I guess. I dont know how they take them, but there are enough cars out there (Jap cars especially) with screwdriver marks on the top of the door that it must mean someone is taking them without the keys.

Anan1

djimi wrote: »

Probably more of an issue for older cars I guess. I dont know how they take them, but there are enough cars out there (Jap cars especially) with screwdriver marks on the top of the door that it must mean someone is taking them without the keys.

Anything without a factory immobiliser and I'm in complete agreement with you.

biko

Depending on your situation OP I think you need to decide yourself if it's worth it. If you go ahead and get it done, get a proper installer or you might get wiring issues down the road.

For my Sub it's actually just a plug and play thing. The kit is less than 200 and easy DIY. For your car I think you need an aftermarket installed properly by a pro.

Zubeneschamali

Anan1 wrote: »

Or am I missing something?

I'm with Anan1: alarms are a complete waste of money and a nuisance. Even the case Anan1 mentions, where you leave valuables in the car, a smash-and-grab artist won't care if there is an alarm if there are valuables on display, and won't bother breaking in if there aren't.

Wibbs

Anan1 wrote: »

Unless you leave valuables in the car I can't see the point.

And this is partly why cars get nicked. On older pre factory immobilised cars(like you said to be fair) they are an absolute given. Was reading a facebook page for folks to post that their car had been stolen and a remarkable amount of them were alarm free. I just can't see the logic in some spending serious wads of cash on wheels, ICE and styling stuff and not having a decent alarm, some have no alarm at all, thinking one of those stupid steering wheel bar lock things will stop anyone(they won't. Indeed they actually help the scum).

Newer cars with factory immobilisers? Yes certainly better, but people shouldn't be too cock sure they can't be defeated. They can as the fairly recent BMW issue showed. 30 seconds to clone the key through the engine management port and away they went. The modern motorcars internal computer network is scarily open to attack and that includes the security.

The other phrase/mentality that comes up(and boils my piss TBH) is the "ah sure if they really want it they'll get it" or "ah sure insurance will cover it". That's defeatist and another reason cars get nicked. You can set up a cars security in such a way that unless they have a lot of time and a tow truck it's going nowhere(and even on the towtruck the alarm will still be going batshít) or not very far. Yes even if they nick the keys. You can certainly defeat the average scumbag and will give serious headaches to the not so average. Such that the scum will look for easier targets of which there are many.

As for proper installers? Yep, but actually get a proper installer, especially if you've an older car that may be a target(EG any older flash Japanese job). 90% of the time they install alarms in the same place and the scum know this. With many of the cheaper alarm systems the install actually helps the scum find the wires to "hotwire" the car. Basically if your alarm brain is on the ignition harness and your siren is in the engine bay it's remarkably easy to bypass and barely worth the cost of fitting* and will only serve to scare away the most knuckledragging of the scum and irritate you and your neighbours.





* to be fair to the installer guys, for many out there "ah sure it has an alarm" is enough and the installers have to make money. A more trick system with backup batteries, extra and separate layers and the like(and before you get into trackers) is gonna take a lot longer and cost more money and few will either want that level and most importantly won't be willing to pay for it, so naturally they go the easier/faster to install route.

Del2005

Wibbs wrote: »

Newer cars with factory immobilisers? Yes certainly better, but people shouldn't be too cock sure they can't be defeated. They can as the fairly recent BMW issue showed. 30 seconds to clone the key through the engine management port and away they went. The modern motorcars internal computer network is scarily open to attack and that includes the security.

To fit an alarm that has an immobiliser you need to defeat the factory one or at least bypass part of it. If they can clone a key they can bypass an after market alarm just as easily.

Wibbs wrote: »

The other phrase/mentality that comes up(and boils my piss TBH) is the "ah sure if they really want it they'll get it" or "ah sure insurance will cover it". That's defeatist and another reason cars get nicked. You can set up a cars security in such a way that unless they have a lot of time and a tow truck it's going nowhere(and even on the towtruck the alarm will still be going batshít) or not very far. Yes even if they nick the keys. You can certainly defeat the average scumbag and will give serious headaches to the not so average. Such that the scum will look for easier targets of which there are many.

If they go to all the trouble of stealing your keys, or cloning, and can't drive off they'll destroy the car, a boot into every panel and a Stanley to the seats takes no time. They don't care they'll just steal another one, you'll have a car which you can't drive either and have a big repair bill on.

Wibbs

Del2005 wrote: »

To fit an alarm that has an immobiliser you need to defeat the factory one or at least bypass part of it.

Not quite, depends on the alarm. Canbus alarms add to the existing security.

If they can clone a key they can bypass an after market alarm just as easily.

Again not quite. Take the BMW hack example. Took 30 seconds and there was a blind spot in the alarm coverage which allowed them to access the dataport, so it was a practiced procedure. If a BMW had an aftermarket alarm properly fitted, the blind spot would be covered, the proximity detector would have chirped warning them off, if they had gone ahead regardless with the alarm going ape alerting the owners, they have to wait 30 seconds to clone the key. To no avail as the alarm would have immobilised another circuit or two. For the pro car thief that is just too much attention, especially as they know there'll be a lot more BMW owners who won't have the secondary layer. Chances are the pros would bugger off at the first warn away chirp of the alarm. This was the experience of guys on BMW forums who had added an aftermarket alarm system to vulnerable models. The "ah sure it'll do" brigade had their cars stolen.

Older car? Well once one model of a newer car's factory security is cracked it's a rinse and repeat if you want to nick another one. The procedure is transferable so even the moronic scum can have a go. An older car with a properly fitted alarm system not in the usual obvious ways is going to require a helluva lot more thought and again time and unwanted attention. Again there are easier targets about.

If they go to all the trouble of stealing your keys, or cloning, and can't drive off they'll destroy the car, a boot into every panel and a Stanley to the seats takes no time. They don't care they'll just steal another one, you'll have a car which you can't drive either and have a big repair bill on.

Maybe, but it's more likely they'll just go for an easier target and there are plenty of those. Most scum "joyriders" are opportunistic thieves. Pros who are doing this as a "business" won't want the attention and again will go for easier, less risky, more lucrative targets. In areas of the US where car theft is high like California, the experience on the ground backs this up.

Hell it's even more self evident than that. Joyriding and the like has most certainly come down quite a bit since the implementation of better security on cars from the factory and now the opportunistic scum go for older cars without it, or try to steal the keys in a burglary. Even so car theft has come down since the 70's80's/90's(when pretty much everyone I knew had a car nicked at one time or another). If the defeatist attitude of so many was in play that drop in crime shouldn't have happened.

But let's say your scenario does play out. If they succeed in stealing your car chances are it's gone for good, rallied to fook and destroyed/burnt out(maybe even starring in a facebook video so the scum can gloat). Or it's recovered and horribly damaged. Still a big repair bill or write off and insurance payout(if you're lucky), difference in my argument being the oxygen wasting scum don't get their kicks at your expense. I know which I would prefer. Well I'd prefer to have a kilo of C4 under their seats that I could trigger remotely, but that's just me.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

.................. thinking one of those stupid steering wheel bar lock things will stop anyone(they won't. Indeed they actually help the scum). ..............

A decent steering wheel lock despite aiding the steering lock to be broken can't be removed easily without cutting the steering wheel in at least two places. So a spare steering wheek is required.

There are alarms out there (lots) that cost a few hundred that are easier to defeat than some steering wheel locks

Zubeneschamali

Wibbs wrote: »

If the defeatist attitude of so many was in play that drop in crime shouldn't have happened.

We're not defeatists, we're stating obvious facts: a car with a factory immobiliser doesn't need an alarm. The only thing the alarm does is go off accidentally, wake you up in the middle of the night and annoy the neighbours.

listermint

Unless your 2.0 TDI suddenly morphs into a 335i i think your going to be pretty safe from being targetted regularly by thiefs

djimi

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

The only thing the alarm does is go off accidentally, wake you up in the middle of the night and annoy the neighbours.

The fact that I am still driving my car would suggest otherwise, however I now accept I am in the minority in my thinking.

Zubeneschamali

djimi wrote: »

The fact that I am still driving my car would suggest otherwise

Does your car have a factory fit immobiliser?

djimi

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Does your car have a factory fit immobiliser?

No, but Im quite certain that it would not be much of an issue for them to put it on the back of a truck, even if it had. The only thing that scared them off was the alarm going off.

Wibbs

RoverJames wrote: »

A decent steering wheel lock despite aiding the steering lock to be broken can't be removed easily without cutting the steering wheel in at least two places. So a spare steering wheek is required.

Oh they're another layer RJ, I just wouldn't rely on one alone. Maybe the one that encloses the entire wheel, they'd be trouble to get around.

There are alarms out there (lots) that cost a few hundred that are easier to defeat than some steering wheel locks

i'd say most alarms IMH. Like I said if your alarm brain is hanging off your ignition loom under the dash and your siren is in the engine bay, it's better than nothing and will deter many, but any scum with any practice under their belt will defeat it in moments. How? pop the car door(various methods) pop the bonnet(in some cars like old Hondas among others you don't even need to open the door to get the bonnet open), cut siren wire, if it's a backup battery siren a hammer sorts them out PDQ(plus if it's in the car for years the battery is likely shagged anyway). Now the scum is free to take their time. Back into the car, pull down dash, onto the ignition loom and... Obviously I've removed some steps, but that's the general gist.

listermint wrote: »

Unless your 2.0 TDI suddenly morphs into a 335i i think your going to be pretty safe from being targetted regularly by thiefs

You'd think LM, but a Guard mate of mine is often surprised by the kind of cars stolen. At one point starlets were a fave for some Dublin car thieving scum.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

We're not defeatists, we're stating obvious facts: a car with a factory immobiliser doesn't need an alarm. The only thing the alarm does is go off accidentally, wake you up in the middle of the night and annoy the neighbours.

Oh really? Tell that to a couple of hundred BMW owners.
Interesting stat from that article; Car crime has gone down in recent years, but in London, 39 per cent of cars stolen last year were taken without the owners' keys being present, according to the Met Police." Were they all old bangers without immobilisers? I doubt it.

Also as the BMW spokesperson said There is no specific BMW security issue here, this is something which affects many brands, however organised criminals have targeted particularly desirable cars, with higher value parts and that is why BMW is amongst the brands affected.

So if you want to buy into the notion you don't need a secondary layer of security then go right ahead, but you can't begin to describe it as an "obvious fact". As for going off accidentally, a properly installed and set up alarm won't. Mine has never gone off in 6 years accidentally. It went off twice when targeted by scum, who buggered off.