Sky box recordings (after subscription ends)

Morrisseeee

After you successfully & painfully manage to end your sub with $ky, you have a dilemma, you have recordings on your $ky box!!

It is YOUR box, they are YOUR recordings, so............is it illegal to bar you from your recordings ?
/ok maybe illegal is too big a word but.......or is it, do we have a case !?

I don't expect to have the $ky+ service after I cancel but it is my opinion that they can't bar you from your recordings just because you don't have a sub with them. If their advertisement says "believe in better", then reward your ex-customers with a special card that gives them access to their recordings, in fact I think it should be mandatory, it should be your 'right' as a consumer/customer.

Consumers have rights, so is this one of them ?
Who would be willing to take issue with them or even take them to court ? :eek:

muffler

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I don't expect to have the $ky+ service after I cancel

I thought you cancelled a long time ago

Morrisseeee

muffler wrote: »

I thought you cancelled a long time ago

I did, so.........what's your point and link about ??

In my op I'm talking on behalf of people who have cancelled or are thinking about it.

Cantona's Collars

This topic has been discussed many times already.The fact is that Sky supply programming that's encrypted and you pay for it,even if you record it technically it belongs to Sky.Not much difference between it and iTunes.

It's well covered it their t&c's so when you sign up you should be aware of this.

BTW,don't use $ky,it makes your posts look childish.

Anyhow,if you really need to see stuff that you lost due to cancelling,there's plenty of ways to get it online.

mickko

You're completely right, the recordings do (or should!) belong to you, same as legally downloading a file from the net.

However I suspect that Sky have covered this area in their T&C's with residential customers. It's a bit of a grey area which I'm sure would be open to legal challenge.

I do know that Sky include this in their T&C'S with other providers (UPC, Virgin, etc) forcing them to disable content to a STB should a customer cancel service.
They also include features to ensure that the content cannot be shared, or removed from the STB. This is all very deliberate.

Thankfully though, people are beginning to cop on to Sky and their endless list of dirty tricks.....

http://advanced-television.com/2013/05/01/freesat-fastest-growing-plarform/

Of course, Sky can't handle the truth, and now want to deceive the markets (and convince themselves) into believing that their subs are strong. For the first time in 20 years they are going to declare subs from NowTV and other services which will give a false figure of their subs, in an attempt to make them look better than they actually are. Coincidently, they were expected to show zero, or negative subscriber growth, for the first qaurter in their operating history....

http://advanced-television.com/2013/04/29/bskyb-zero-net-dth-adds-for-q3/

Kristopherus

zerks wrote: »

This topic has been discussed many times already.The fact is that Sky supply programming that's encrypted and you pay for it,even if you record it technically it belongs to Sky.Not much difference between it and iTunes.

It's well covered it their t&c's so when you sign up you should be aware of this.

BTW,don't use $ky,it makes your posts look childish.

Anyhow,if you really need to see stuff that you lost due to cancelling,there's plenty of ways to get it online.

I see you're still touchy about $ky:D:D:D.

If you saw the docu on Beeb 2 the other night about Murdoch, you would see where the $ is always the top line with him, not the bottom line;).

Cantona's Collars

Kristopherus wrote: »

I see you're still touchy about $ky:D:D:D.

If you saw the docu on Beeb 2 the other night about Murdoch, you would see where the $ is always the top line with him, not the bottom line;).

Ha,was gonna namedrop you in that post but I'd a feeling you'd pop in:D

He hasn't gotten full price from my house in nigh on 18 months and won't either.Still have the full package without the full price:)

irishgeo

mickko wrote: »

You're completely right, the recordings do (or should!) belong to you, same as legally downloading a file from the net.

However I suspect that Sky have covered this area in their T&C's with residential customers. It's a bit of a grey area which I'm sure would be open to legal challenge.

I do know that Sky include this in their T&C'S with other providers (UPC, Virgin, etc) forcing them to disable content to a STB should a customer cancel service.
They also include features to ensure that the content cannot be shared, or removed from the STB. This is all very deliberate.

Thankfully though, people are beginning to cop on to Sky and their endless list of dirty tricks.....

http://advanced-television.com/2013/05/01/freesat-fastest-growing-plarform/

Of course, Sky can't handle the truth, and now want to deceive the markets (and convince themselves) into believing that their subs are strong. For the first time in 20 years they are going to declare subs from NowTV and other services which will give a false figure of their subs, in an attempt to make them look better than they actually are. Coincidently, they were expected to show zero, or negative subscriber growth, for the first qaurter in their operating history....

http://advanced-television.com/2013/04/29/bskyb-zero-net-dth-adds-for-q3/

Hmm a new encryption system as the illegal practice I can't mention has taken off. Now it makes sense.

PogMoThoin

irishgeo wrote: »

Hmm a new encryption system as the illegal practice I can't mention has taken off. Now it makes sense.

The new pairing system they are rolling out is only for HD. In order for them to roll it out fully Sky need to replace every single Sky box in the UK and IRL with a newer HD box. They'll not do that while they're making a mint on charging extra for HD (and people are paying it). Us pirates may lose HD shortly, then the cat and mouse games have begun again.

Capt'n Midnight

All you can do with SKY recordings is to play them during contract.

All in the terms and conditions that you should have read when signing up.

You can record them on an external recording device during this period via the SCART cable though.

mickko

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

You can record them on an external recording device during this period via the SCART cable though.

A bit laborious considering you can only record what's playing back in real time from the box, rendering the unit useless during this lenghty period.

Sky deliberately restrict the unit from performing any sort of file transferring operation.

Capt'n Midnight

mickko wrote: »

A bit laborious considering you can only record what's playing back in real time from the box, rendering the unit useless during this lenghty period.

Sky deliberately restrict the unit from performing any sort of file transferring operation.

No you can play back previous recordings too. But only during the contract period.

Whatever you say about SKY you have to admit they sat down and thought this stuff through.

It's a gotcha, but only if you were expecting a free lunch.

More Music

Well put Capt'n Midnight.

Nobody is forced to hand over their "$" to Sky. You know what you're getting when you sign up, and it's all there in the contract.

Sky offer a good service, very high technical standards and rarely a transmission fault. Easy to deal with customer service and willing to keep you as a customer in these times.

Free or 1/2 price HD (or similar offer) isn't going to make or break anybody. It just feels good to get or negotiate the deal. Sky know this and don't mind offering it because you will sign up for another 12 months.

On the recording matter, that's their operating model. Buy the box set if you want unlimited access to a programme.

Why should Sky allow you to use their decryption software (which you never owned) for playback once you end the subscription.

Capt'n Midnight

Don't forget that a FreeSat box can record all the free to air UK satellite stuff with series linking.

If you have an old sky box (not SKY+ because it records and defo no HD) then the AutoView feature can be used to start an external recording device. YMMV depending on schedule changes, phase of the moon, or the box you haver

Morrisseeee

More Music wrote: »

Sky offer a good service, very high technical standards and rarely a transmission fault. Easy to deal with customer service and willing to keep you as a customer in these times.

Why should Sky allow you to use their decryption software (which you never owned) for playback once you end the subscription.

I'm not sure everyone would agree with some of those sentiments, I know I didn't have an easy time when trying to cancel, and I've heard & read a lot of similar stories.

I don't want to own their decryption software or even use it (I do own the box), I just want to view MY recordings.

I think I'm entitled to that, would you agree ?

Capt'n Midnight

Morrisseeee wrote: »

I just want to view MY recordings.

My oh my.

They belong to the copyright holder until 50 years after they have been first broadcast. ( Though I would not be surprised if there is an argument that only FTA is broadcast and instead want life +70 ) And that's even after they've handed out the DVD for free with a Sunday newspaper.


The recording is usually saved in an encrypted form, so you have to use their algorithms / copyrighted code / proprietary secrets / patents etc. subject to their terms and conditions and some of which are protected for life +70 or up to 120 years for unpublished corporate works.




There ain't no such thing as a free meal.

The workaround is to backup stuff you want to keep by using an external device while still in contract.


You might want to check out the copyright protection built into the HDMI interface. It's designed to block unauthorised recording. It's designed to limit the resolution of playback on unauthorised devices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-bandwidth_Digital_Content_Protection

For the philosophy behind copyright check out "The Mickey Mouse Act"

mickko

More Music wrote: »

Why should Sky allow you to use their decryption software (which you never owned) for playback once you end the subscription.

Sky's encryption/decryption system is only used to securely disable/enable access to their designated encrypted services.

The ability to playback from the HDD would have no burden on Sky's active system or maintenance and the box should simply work as any HDD DVR, because that is what it is.

It's a very deliberate act by Sky to hold their subscriber to ransom should they decide to leave.

I guess the OP feels understandably aggrieved that they recorded this content whilst paying a premium for it, and now can't access it on the box that they own.

Unfortunately people have to wise up to company's like this and read their T&Cs.

It's a bit like Ryanair's pre-flight hold-up if your bags are 1kg over or you didn't print your boarding card, they can only get away with it cos your going for a flight, and they have you by the bollix.

People feel understandably aggrieved, then you get all the unemployed wannabe entrepreneurs "but it's in their T&C'S, blah, blah, blah...."

muffler

mickko wrote: »

It's a very deliberate act by Sky to hold their subscriber to ransom should they decide to leave.

Do Sky decapitate them after this or what?

Morrisseeee

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

For the philosophy behind copyright check out "The Mickey Mouse Act"

Ah here now, you're takin da mick................oh wait you can't, doh :pac:

mickko wrote:

The ability to playback from the HDD would have no burden on Sky's active system or maintenance and the box should simply work as any HDD DVR.
It's a very deliberate act by Sky to hold their subscriber to ransom

Bingo

This is where I'm coming from. Now, I presume I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness !! I'm presuming a lot of customers are aggrieved at this (low down, mean, stingy, un-customer friendly) practice !
I don't want to be a lone vigilante fighting against the big giant, I thought we'd work together and see if there's a possible solution, a back-door, a side-door, a legal loophole that we could look for.

If their ad says: "believe in better" but their actions are "believe in better me arse" then, why can't we gel together and find a way to test them on their slogan.

Note: this isn't a personal problem, I've backed my stuff up, I'm just throwing it out there to see if there's something we can do.

ThisRegard

If you subscribe to say Spotify, download gigs and gigs of music in the first month, then cancel. Would you insist that you should still be able to access all that music once you terminated your subscription ?

Berty44

UPC apply the same criteria with their boxes....cannot access recordings if you no longer have the package.

Bullseye1

Is it not possible to transfer your recordings onto an external HD drive/player?

Morrisseeee

ThisRegard wrote: »

If you subscribe to say Spotify, download gigs and gigs of music in the first month, then cancel. Would you insist that you should still be able to access all that music once you terminated your subscription ?

My analagy would be: if you buy a phone & sign a contract with a phone provider for 12months, you take videos/photos/download stuff onto the memory device, when the contract is ended I still can access MY videos/photos/downloaded material.

mike65

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Is it not possible to transfer your recordings onto an external HD drive/player?

No and the recordings are encoded.

ThisRegard

Morrisseeee wrote: »

My analagy would be: if you buy a phone & sign a contract with a phone provider for 12months, you take videos/photos/download stuff onto the memory device, when the contract is ended I still can access MY videos/photos/downloaded material.

You aren't supplied with the videos, photos or downloaded material by the phone provider, just the means to get them.

After your 12 month contract is up, would you still expect to be able to use their network with the phone ?

Morrisseeee

ThisRegard wrote: »

You aren't supplied with the videos, photos or downloaded material by the phone provider, just the means to get them.

After your 12 month contract is up, would you still expect to be able to use their network with the phone ?

Before I address your post can I ask you: do you agree with my point about being able to play your recordings after contract is ended ? Y or N ?

ThisRegard

No, because that's what your subscription is for.

Morrisseeee

ThisRegard wrote: »

No, because that's what your subscription is for.

So when the sub ends, I can use the box as a FTA receiver but........they block me from viewing my recordings on my HD, and you see no problem with that, that's kinda sad, isn't it ?!

ThisRegard wrote:

You aren't supplied with the videos, photos or downloaded material by the phone provider, just the means to get them.

Yes, similar to the Sky box, they supply you with the means to get the videos, ie. recordings.

ThisRegard wrote:

After your 12 month contract is up, would you still expect to be able to use their network with the phone ?

No, that'd be kinda stupid, but I still have my images/videos and can view them.
I'm not asking for their services, just to be able to view my recordings.

muffler

Morrisseeee wrote: »

they block me from viewing my recordings on my HD, and you see no problem with that, that's kinda sad, isn't it ?!

The ability to record to your Sky box and then view those recordings while you are a Sky subscriber is part of the Sky+ features. These features are available to all Sky subscribers but once you unsubscribe they are no longer available.

Its all in the T & C's and I cant understand why you are finding it so difficult to accept this.

Capt'n Midnight

Morrisseeee wrote: »

My analagy would be: if you buy a phone & sign a contract with a phone provider for 12months, you take videos/photos/download stuff onto the memory device, when the contract is ended I still can access MY videos/photos/downloaded material.

If you whip out your phone and start recording while in the cinema you can get 5 years and €127,000 fine because you are recording someone elses content.

Yes they should allow FTA recordings to be played back, but they don't have to.

TBH if you could watch recorded movies you could nearly sign up one for month in four

No point in complaining. Just educate people about the T&C so they can make up their own minds in stead of gotcha.


Slightly off topic but Netflix is wiping bittorrent in the US. An indication of people voting with their wallets. Not so off topic when it's a future alternative to sky / and also prevents you watching content without a current subscription.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/14/sandvine_internet_report/
32.5% of internet traffic is netflix vs. 5.57% torrent in the US
Here in EU Netflix doesn't register but torrenting is 12.22%

"In Europe, countries with lower Real-Time Entertainment share typically have higher Filesharing traffic, which leads us to believe that subscribers are likely using applications like BitTorrent to procure audio and video content not available in their region," Sandvine wrote.

Morrisseeee

muffler wrote: »

Its all in the T & C's and I cant understand why you are finding it so difficult to accept this.

Maybe there is there a loophole in the T&C's ?

That's the idea/aim/goal of the thread, to stand up & fight the good cause, sure what have we to loose ? Instead of lying down & rolling over like a good little puppy because €ky says so, be a David & slay Goliath !!

mickko

Berty44 wrote: »

UPC apply the same criteria with their boxes....cannot access recordings if you no longer have the package.

UPC have no choice in this.

Sky demand that UPC provide this feature in their carriage contracts.
These contracts are non-negotiable, a perk Sky enjoy due to non-regulation in Ireland.

UPC must design their STB around their agreement with Sky, even though the majority of services on the STB are from other providers.

mickko

ThisRegard wrote: »

After your 12 month contract is up, would you still expect to be able to use their network with the phone ?

Regardless of whether you subscribe to Sky or not, the technical ability of the box to playback from it's HDD would have no reliance whatsoever on their "network".

mickko

Morrisseeee wrote: »

Bingo

This is where I'm coming from. Now, I presume I'm not a lone voice in the wilderness !! I'm presuming a lot of customers are aggrieved at this (low down, mean, stingy, un-customer friendly) practice !
I don't want to be a lone vigilante fighting against the big giant, I thought we'd work together and see if there's a possible solution, a back-door, a side-door, a legal loophole that we could look for.

If their ad says: "believe in better" but their actions are "believe in better me arse" then, why can't we gel together and find a way to test them on their slogan.

Note: this isn't a personal problem, I've backed my stuff up, I'm just throwing it out there to see if there's something we can do.

Well there's pretty much nothing you can do.

You signed up to a contract with a company that, in my view, is rotten to the core, and practices in dirty tricks campaigns with its customers, suppliers, wholesale providers, carriers, etc, etc...

Why? And how do they get away with it? Because they're simply too powerful. Political corruption helps too.

"Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

You're going through the realisation process so the acceptance stage is next. I'm sure it was all great at the beginning. It probably started with the constant mind-numbing advertising. Funny how you qouted "Believe in Better". It clearly worked. The natural cycle from beginning to end of the Sky customer that I've seen time and time again.

I've lectured here many times about the ills of BSkyB in this country. Your grievance about not been able to playback is only a drop in the ocean. Lets prioritise. Here's the top 2....

1: Sky's extraction from this State of 100's of millions of our Euro for which they have been allowed to enjoy paying 0% VAT to the Irish exchequer. The total in the last decade runs into many BILLIONS of Euro sucked from our ecomony.

2: Non-regulated broadcasting in this State, which has led to grossly over-priced subscription charges for Irish subs compared to UK, grossly-overpriced subs to wholesale and commercial customers, like cable operators, pubs, etc. leading to irregularities in the market place.
It's also led to number 1 above.

....and I could easily continue to 100, many of which could be eradicated if the first 2 were dealt with.

So if you want to do something....
1. Cancel your subscription and stop sending your overpriced subscription over to the UK. I take it you've done this already. BTW, 20% of this was going to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs in UK VAT.

2. Bring up point 1 and 2 above with your local TD, which I'm sure will go nowhere because he/she is probably as useful as a chocolate kettle.


Dont blame Sky. Blame the incompetence of the Irish Goverment, and the stupidity of its citizens. It's no wonder the country's ****ed.

evilivor

mickko wrote: »

I've lectured here many times about the ills of BSkyB in this country. Your grievance about not been able to playback is only a drop in the ocean. Lets prioritise. Here's the top 2....

1: Sky's extraction from this State of 100's of millions of our Euro for which they have been allowed to enjoy paying 0% VAT to the Irish exchequer. The total in the last decade runs into many BILLIONS of Euro sucked from our ecomony.

2: Non-regulated broadcasting in this State, which has led to grossly over-priced subscription charges for Irish subs compared to UK, grossly-overpriced subs to wholesale and commercial customers, like cable operators, pubs, etc. leading to irregularities in the market place.
It's also led to number 1 above.

....and I could easily continue to 100, many of which could be eradicated if the first 2 were dealt with.

So if you want to do something....
1. Cancel your subscription and stop sending your overpriced subscription over to the UK. I take it you've done this already. BTW, 20% of this was going to Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs in UK VAT.

2. Bring up point 1 and 2 above with your local TD, which I'm sure will go nowhere because he/she is probably as useful as a chocolate kettle.


Dont blame Sky. Blame the incompetence of the Irish Goverment, and the stupidity of its citizens. It's no wonder the country's ****ed.

Sky charges the British VAT rate to customers here under an EU harmonisation directive. This will change when a new directive comes into force at the beginning of 2015 and the VAT will flow to the Irish exchequer.

It's nothing to do with "the incompetence of the Irish Goverment, and the stupidity of its citizens".

mickko

evilivor wrote: »

Sky charges the British VAT rate to customers here under an EU harmonisation directive. This will change when a new directive comes into force at the beginning of 2015 and the VAT will flow to the Irish exchequer.

It's nothing to do with "the incompetence of the Irish Goverment, and the stupidity of its citizens".

That's a vague nonsensical statement. I'm at odds to understand how VAT would magically "flow" to the Irish exchequer because of EU directives.

BSkyB have been allowed to operate a business in this State since 1993 with little or no interaction with the government, revenue, CRO, any broadcasting governing body, or any financial institution.
This has been tolerated by our government for 20 years.

Sky residential subs pay directly into the UK bank account of a UK registered company. 20% is paid to HMRC in UK VAT.

They have been allowed to operate here without regulation, in which case they would have had to register a company with the CRO, in which case they would have paid Irish VAT on Irish subs to the Irish exchequer.

It has everything to do with incompetence and stupidity.

muffler

mickko, surely you should be raising these points with the elected government Ministers and TD's instead of posting about it here?

mickko

Have done so for 10 years but they're more concerned about raising revenue from me and you, rather than from the obvious.
Anyway, back to this playback/recording issue...

Berty44

mickko wrote: »

UPC have no choice in this......
UPC must design their STB around their agreement with Sky, even though the majority of services on the STB are from other providers.

At least you get to keep your Sky box. UPC actually take theirs back !