Tiagra bottom bracket - RIP?

Surveyor11

When I built up my Dolan Preffisio last December, I fitted a new Tiagra front crankset and bottom bracket. Over the past few days it's being giving some weird noises - had a quick look this morning and there's a bit of play in the bottom bracket. Will be doing a full post mortem over the weekend (have the BB removal tool), but at 5 months of 800km plus per month commuting (approx 4,000km in total), is it time to be replaced?

happytramp

Surveyor11 wrote: »

but at 5 months of 800km plus per month commuting (approx 4,000km in total), is it time to be replaced?

It does sound like it needs to be replaced however 4000km is nowhere near the average lifespan of a bottom bracket. Should be much longer.

Surveyor11

Thanks for that Happytramp, will have a look at the weekend. Maybe a quick tighten might do the trick.

check_six

You have a mystery sound.

You think it's coming from your bottom bracket.

...And you think the problem is in your bottom bracket?

I forsee many surprising revelations in your near future...!

check_six

Seriously though, my most recent wobbly bottom bracket was a loose non-drive pedal.

Surveyor11

check_six wrote: »

You have a mystery sound.

You think it's coming from your bottom bracket.

...And you think the problem is in your bottom bracket?

I forsee many surprising revelations in your near future...!

Thanks for that, I suppose my query was more in terms of longevity of the BB, I've established there's an issue there. New one is about 15 quid, so no drama on that front.....:pac:

Surveyor11

check_six wrote: »

Seriously though, my most recent wobbly bottom bracket was a loose non-drive pedal.

Thanks for that, yeah peddles look like they're ok. The entire mechanism (i.e BB & Cranks) are loose. Which makes me think the BB may have expired. Justsurprised after a relatively short life if that is the case.

Mercian Pro

Just finished replacing the 105 bottom bracket on my Cannondale. Third one in 5 years which isn't impressive. Trying an Ultegra one this time (reduced on CHC) but I don't expect much difference. Took apart the old one and the bearings on the non-drive side were totally gunged up, very stiff but with play when I cleaned them. Reckon a lot of grit, salt and other muck gets in despite the seals. Had a Campag SR on my old (deceased) Mercian and it was over 20 years old with only occasional servicing. External bearings are too exposed and just won't survive heavy all year round use.

ford2600

Replaced a hollowtech 2 after 3000km at most. Utter junk.
If commuting and doing high mileage and likely to hold onto bike, consider Chris King or similar.
No guarantee ultegra any better, look the same design to me.

Brads locks

If the frames aren't faced before b/b is fitted, they can often seat uneven in the frame, causing the bearings the wear a lot quicker, just saying !

Mercian Pro

Just bad design IMHO. Expecting a couple of O ring seals to keep water out when they are eccentrically loaded is the height of optimism. Can't really understand why some people rate Shimano so highly. Must check out the Chris King design.

Ouch! Just checked price. I suppose, like most things, you get what you pay for.

Konkers

Agreed, I replaced tiagra Hollow tech 2 after very little milage with the ultegra equivalent. Had a cheap square tapered BB before this. Heavy, but it lasted 3+ years.

ford2600

Big price, that's why I gave a qualified recommendation!
At €14 to replace it's not bad once a year but with high mileage that's possible multiple replacements.
I hadcheap square tapers last a long time


quote="Mercian Pro;84439751"]Just bad design IMHO. Expecting a couple of O ring seals to keep water out when they are eccentrically loaded is the height of optimism. Can't really understand why some people rate Shimano so highly. Must check out the Chris King design.

Ouch! Just checked price. I suppose, like most things, you get what you pay for.[/quote]

Surveyor11

Brads locks wrote: »

If the frames aren't faced before b/b is fitted, they can often seat uneven in the frame, causing the bearings the wear a lot quicker, just saying !

This sounds ominous, and a quick check of t'interweb shows divided opinion on this. So the question is to all the home builders out there - who has their BB faced? is it a pre-requisite or must do job? at the end of the day, a Tiagra BB can be had for 10-odd quid, so 6 months out of it or get it faced looks like my options.

clog

I've never had many problems with bb's but I remember speaking to a friend who is a qualified mechanic and he maintained that most of the trouble with shimano bottom brackets was caused by them being pre-loaded too tight before the bolts at the side are secured. This leads to excessive pressure on the bearings and failure
He suggested that they should be loaded barely fingertight just enough to take out any play in the cranks. I've not had a problem since following this advice and I have replaced quite a few for friends also.

lescol

I was in a similar quandary a few years ago, I'd replaced a square taper BB with a Tiagra Hollowtech BB. It was noisy within a few months. I took out the chainset and the BB bearings were rough and rusty. I followed this:- http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/outboard-bearing-bottom-bracket-service-guide-pics-497220.html which solved the problem, however, I was doing a job on my Planet X and I bought a DA BB and put that on my PX, and swapped out the DA BB on the PX with the Tiagra, the old DA was 3 years on my PX. The DA has now survived two winters on the bike and is still going strong, so it's now 5 years old. I still haven't got around to having the old frame faced

Surveyor11

clog wrote: »

I've never had many problems with bb's but I remember speaking to a friend who is a qualified mechanic and he maintained that most of the trouble with shimano bottom brackets was caused by them being pre-loaded too tight before the bolts at the side are secured. This leads to excessive pressure on the bearings and failure
He suggested that they should be loaded barely fingertight just enough to take out any play in the cranks. I've not had a problem since following this advice and I have replaced quite a few for friends also.

Ok clog, thanks for that. This oul biking lark is a never ending learning game.....

Surveyor11

lescol wrote: »

I was in a similar quandary a few years ago, I'd replaced a square taper BB with a Tiagra Hollowtech BB. It was noisy within a few months. I took out the chainset and the BB bearings were rough and rusty. I followed this:- http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/outboard-bearing-bottom-bracket-service-guide-pics-497220.html which solved the problem, however, I was doing a job on my Planet X and I bought a DA BB and put that on my PX, and swapped out the DA BB on the PX with the Tiagra, the old DA was 3 years on my PX. The DA has now survived two winters on the bike and is still going strong, so it's now 5 years old. I still haven't got around to having the old frame faced

That looks like a plan, provided the BB isn't knackered already. Will give this a go and see how I get on. I need to get my hands on some decent grease, I'm assuming lithium won't be man enough for this?

velomelo

Brads locks wrote: »

If the frames aren't faced before b/b is fitted, they can often seat uneven in the frame, causing the bearings the wear a lot quicker, just saying !

But what if your frame is made of carbon and you want to replace bb ?

I can't imagine that this is something everyone should do the price of the tools are in hundreds of euros - unless it's designed like that for purpose to keep workshops busy.

Surveyor11

velomelo wrote: »

I can't imagine that this is something everyone should do the price of the tools are in hundreds of euros - unless it's designed like that for purpose to keep workshops busy.

well, maybe it's a lesson learned for me for future frame builds - I quite liked building up my bike from scratch and would consider doing the same again. I may scratch the carbon itch with an upgrade of my other frame, so will have to wait and see...If I shell out on a shiny new carbon frame, might leave it to the pros to build up the majority of it for me (BB, headset etc)...my other bike is Campag, so that could be an expensive lesson to learn.....

Although I wouldn't see the merit in reputable builders like Dolan, Ribble, Planet -X sending frames that need a lot of work to fit BB, there's nothing in oit for them.

lescol

Surveyor11 wrote: »

That looks like a plan, provided the BB isn't knackered already. Will give this a go and see how I get on. I need to get my hands on some decent grease, I'm assuming lithium won't be man enough for this?

I'm fairly sure I used Shimano grease

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=24446

Mercian Pro

Very easy to snap the outer dust cover as I discovered dismantling the old cups. A friend treats the BB the same way as other consumerables such as tyres, tubes, brake blocks and chains. Buy them when they are reduced on CHC or Wiggle and always have spares in the shed!
I notice the Chris King BB is designed so that you can purge the old grease and insert the new grease in one operation. Now that's good design.
Must try backing off the outer tightening bolt as suggested by Clog above.