Steyr upgrade will be available in left hand mode too.

time lord

Will all the lefties be happy?I know I would be. Would hate firing off the opposite shoulder.

newby.204

where did you hear that?

Morpheus

Ball hop! has to be for such small numbers of shooters!

time lord

Morpheus wrote: »

Ball hop! has to be for such small numbers of shooters!

You will all owe Time Lord a lollypopwhen I'm proved right.. Think there maybe a publication on the upgrade soon and it should be in that. Yes the numbers are small but the conversion process is also very small.

davetherave

I'm a leftie and I think it would be a pain in the ass to fire left handed. I've gotten used to firing right handed that even thinking about left handed seems awkward.
If you have a recruit who has never fired before then maybe they would prefer left handed configuration, or somebody who has been hunting with a L. H rifle since they could hold it then yeah go for a left sided one. I was trained to handle and fire right handed like everyone else and I do just fine on my arp's so even if this isn't just mess talk rumours I wouldn't be changing.

Morpheus

it makes no sense at all if it costs more. Not saying it does,but if theres a cost in it then bin it.

tac foley

Morpheus wrote: »

it makes no sense at all if it costs more. Not saying it does,but if theres a cost in it then bin it.

Every Steyr AUG I've ever seen can be easily and quickly converted to shoot left-port ejection/right-side cocking anyhow? Are you saying that your PDF procurement agancy was unaware of this?

Quote - The rifle comes standard with four magazines, a muzzle cap, spare bolt for left-handed shooters, blank-firing adaptor, cleaning kit, sling and either an American M7 or German KCB-77 M1 bayonet.'

Next we'll be seeing left-handed grenades.

tac

c-90

The df had the left hand ejection port blanked. So conversions would require an new body. Cost of that alone would quash all rumours.

tac foley

c-90 wrote: »

The df had the left hand ejection port blanked. So conversions would require an new body. Cost of that alone would quash all rumours.

As luck would have it, Adriann here had his Steyr AUG-SP on the range today. It came, as with every AUG I've ever seen, with a required leftie bolt component.

It took all of two minutes to disassemble and convert to leftie shooting. The ejection port blanking plate - called an ejection port 'lid' in the instructions - pops out of the left side, and pops into the right side. The leftie-throwing bolt section replaces the rightie-throwing bolt section. Everybody else, including us poor civilians over here in UK, seems to have had the left-hand ejecting bolt component as part of the rifle's CES - are you telling me that the PDF DIDN'T get the complete gun?

Tut-tut.

tac

time lord

c-90 wrote: »

The df had the left hand ejection port blanked. So conversions would require an new body. Cost of that alone would quash all rumours.

A1 upgrades will be available for citógs. Cost is not a
hurdle.

It wasn't me!

tac foley wrote: »

As luck would have it, Adriann here had his Steyr AUG-SP on the range today. It came, as with every AUG I've ever seen, with a required leftie bolt component.

It took all of two minutes to disassemble and convert to leftie shooting. The ejection port blanking plate - called an ejection port 'lid' in the instructions - pops out of the left side, and pops into the right side. The leftie-throwing bolt section replaces the rightie-throwing bolt section. Everybody else, including us poor civilians over here in UK, seems to have had the left-hand ejecting bolt component as part of the rifle's CES - are you telling me that the PDF DIDN'T get the complete gun?

Tut-tut.

tac

More to the point, tac, the rifles were specifically ordered with the left hand ejection ports sealed up.

This would be very good news if it's true. I know it was definitely discussed by the panel which was considering upgrades and replacements a good while ago and it seemed to be accepted as a significant issue.

amurph0

tac foley wrote: »

As luck would have it, Adriann here had his Steyr AUG-SP on the range today. It came, as with every AUG I've ever seen, with a required leftie bolt component.

It took all of two minutes to disassemble and convert to leftie shooting. The ejection port blanking plate - called an ejection port 'lid' in the instructions - pops out of the left side, and pops into the right side. The leftie-throwing bolt section replaces the rightie-throwing bolt section. Everybody else, including us poor civilians over here in UK, seems to have had the left-hand ejecting bolt component as part of the rifle's CES - are you telling me that the PDF DIDN'T get the complete gun?

Tut-tut.

tac

The DF specifically ordered their Steyrs without a left hand ejection port, as well as other modifications such as an ALO.

As far as I know the reason for this was to remove a possible entry point for dirt, mud, etc. And also because of convenience, cost, training and safety.

Convenience: Rifles didn't have to be specifically used by certain people. Any person could use any rifle because they all fired right handed.

Cost: They saved money because they didn't need to buy as many parts.

Training: Recruits only needed to be trained to fire from the right shoulder and from right handed firing positions, saving time on training. (I could be wrong but I believe this was the reason the L85, as well as other bullpup weapons such as the FAMAS, were not designed to be ambidextrous either.)

Safety: Because it was entirely possible that someone may make the mistake of picking up a left handed Steyr during a training exercise mistake it for a right handed one and injure their face.

Also, I'm left handed and felt perfectly comfortable firing from my right shoulder. There is absolutely no reason to have a left handed Steyr, it's a waste of money.

tac foley

It wasn't me! wrote: »

More to the point, tac, the rifles were specifically ordered with the left hand ejection ports sealed up.

This would be very good news if it's true. I know it was definitely discussed by the panel which was considering upgrades and replacements a good while ago and it seemed to be accepted as a significant issue.

Why am I not amazed?

Procurement organisations are internationally inept, it seems, and that belonging to the PDF has shown that it is no exception. For sure they had a great teacher with the UK Armed Forces PE as an example.

You can have Adrian's LH bolt head unit for a small fee, as he's one of these sad folks who can only do things with their right hands....

tac

tac foley

amurph0 wrote: »

The DF specifically ordered their Steyrs without a left hand ejection port, as well as other modifications such as an ALO.

As far as I know the reason for this was to remove a possible entry point for dirt, mud, etc. And also because of convenience, cost, training and safety.

Convenience: Rifles didn't have to be specifically used by certain people. Any person could use any rifle because they all fired right handed.

Cost: They saved money because they didn't need to buy as many parts.

Training: Recruits only needed to be trained to fire from the right shoulder and from right handed firing positions, saving time on training. (I could be wrong but I believe this was the reason the L85, as well as other bullpup weapons such as the FAMAS, were not designed to be ambidextrous either.)

Safety: Because it was entirely possible that someone may make the mistake of picking up a left handed Steyr during a training exercise mistake it for a right handed one and injure their face.

Also, I'm left handed and felt perfectly comfortable firing from my right shoulder. There is absolutely no reason to have a left handed Steyr, it's a waste of money.

I hear what you say - but there are certainly sound tactical reasons why a left-handed weapon might be useful in a CQB/FIBUA situation.

However, I'm flogging a dead horse here, so I'll let you get on with it.

tac

amurph0

tac foley wrote: »

I hear what you say - but there are certainly sound tactical reasons why a left-handed weapon might be useful in a CQB/FIBUA situation.

There is but that really only applies to weapons where you can fire from both shoulders without modification, so you can switch over depending on the corner or obstacle that you encounter.

This is one of the main reasons why the US prefer to stay away from bullpup weapons, and I assume units like the SAS prefer to use the C7/C8 instead of the L85 because of this reason also.

c-90

tac foley wrote: »

As luck would have it, Adriann here had his Steyr AUG-SP on the range today. It came, as with every AUG I've ever seen, with a required leftie bolt component.

It took all of two minutes to disassemble and convert to leftie shooting. The ejection port blanking plate - called an ejection port 'lid' in the instructions - pops out of the left side, and pops into the right side. The leftie-throwing bolt section replaces the rightie-throwing bolt section. Everybody else, including us poor civilians over here in UK, seems to have had the left-hand ejecting bolt component as part of the rifle's CES - are you telling me that the PDF DIDN'T get the complete gun?

Tut-tut.

tac

Hah at least they only have to make 2/3 changes to bring it up to the mark.

tac foley

amurph0 wrote: »

...I assume units like the SAS prefer to use the C7/C8 instead of the L85 because of this reason also.

The SAS and the SBS both preferred to stick with a well-proven design that works, no matter the situation. You may recall that the L85 in its original incarnation was a mind-numbingly awful crock of s***e in almost every respect. It took almost eu250 MILLION to get it sorted, and it is now about 75% as good as it should have been to start with.

Both the SAS and the SBS are well-known for wanting weapons that work ALL the time, and the L85 and its successor just don't satisfy that requirement, even now.

Can't speak about what anybody else wants.

tac

Manic Moran

It is perfectly possible to shoot a right-handed AUG from the left shoulder if you have a mind to. Use the left hand on the pistol grip, right hand goes on the stock in a similar manner to if you were using a belt-fed. The right hand will then deflect the casings away from your face.

However, there is also the debate on whether off-hand shooting is even necessary. The US Marines, for example, do not use off-hand shooting when shooting around the 'wrong' side of cover, and instead simply expose a little more of themselves. (Diagrams on the 'roll-out' technique are in the manual)

c-90

Manic Moran wrote: »

It is perfectly possible to shoot a right-handed AUG from the left shoulder if you have a mind to. Use the left hand on the pistol grip, right hand goes on the stock in a similar manner to if you were using a belt-fed. The right hand will then deflect the casings away from your face.

However, there is also the debate on whether off-hand shooting is even necessary. The US Marines, for example, do not use off-hand shooting when shooting around the 'wrong' side of cover, and instead simply expose a little more of themselves. (Diagrams on the 'roll-out' technique are in the manual)

Thats strange the m4/16's are perfect for off hand shooting. Id have thought the chance of avoiding a bullet would take precedence over marksmanship.

Certanly would for me.

Manic Moran

Becomes a judgement call, I guess. There's an argument to be said for "if you can't reasonably hit what you're aiming at, why are you risking exposing yourself at all?"

hamburg

it seems this is finally going to happen. they are being issued in the next week.

daithi55

there has always been the parts but the army been the army prefer them on the shelf than been put to use... the only time most of this kind of gear is seen is when its been thrown out.. just look at the new lee enfields and fns that are still in wrappers.. not to mention the old cemo etc...

AbusesToilets

Manic Moran wrote: »

Becomes a judgement call, I guess. There's an argument to be said for "if you can't reasonably hit what you're aiming at, why are you risking exposing yourself at all?"

Sounds like they aren't training to a proper standard if that's the case. If you aren't training to make the best possible use of terrain presented, you are doing yourself a disservice.

Fukuyama

daithi55 wrote: »

there has always been the parts but the army been the army prefer them on the shelf than been put to use... the only time most of this kind of gear is seen is when its been thrown out.. just look at the new lee enfields and fns that are still in wrappers.. not to mention the old cemo etc...

Does the DF actually have stocks of old rifles still in their boxes?

I remember reading that when the RDF switched, all the SLR rifles were dumped into the Irish Sea or sold off.

Negative_G

Dean0088 wrote: »

[/B]

Does the DF actually have stocks of old rifles still in their boxes?

I remember reading that when the RDF switched, all the SLR rifles were dumped into the Irish Sea or sold off.

I doubt you'll get an official answer regarding the claim you are referring to. Given some of the procurement issues that have been spoken about, it would not be too far fetched.

Bear in mind the FN is still in use for specific elements, so it wouldn't be too odd to assume there are still some new unused rifles in stores somewhere.

I can't imagine rifles being deliberately thrown overboard in order to dispose of them , at least not in the modern era. Similarly, I can't recall any functioning military surplus being sold off to a foreign bidder. It wouldn't make for good publicity if weapons or armaments happened to end up at the hands of terrorists or the like.

Witcher

Most if not all of the Enfields were sold ages ago to dealers in the US, Canada etc. for a pittance..about $15 a rifle. 'Irish contract' Enfields were the ones still in the wrapping abd are still very popular over there.