Worth keeping an eye on the Ministers reply

PanhardPL

*385. To ask the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government if
he will state for the financial year of 2012, the number of vehicles that were granted the
concession road tax rate for vintage vehicles; if he will provide a breakdown of the years
of these vehicles, the classes of these vehicles, the horsepower categories of these vehicles
and the total cost to the Exchequer of these concessions; and if he will make a statement
on the matter. — Noel Harrington. [20247/13]


This question is down for answer in the Dail tomorrow Tuesday 30th.

johnty56

Who is this Noel H chap and why does he want to know? Is he some last vestigial scrap of the greens lurking around Leinster House... it certainly isn't for our benefit that he is asking!

hi5

Why does he want to know this for, does he have a problem with the money classic car shows and runs collect for charities?
Maybe its time the thousands of vintage enthusiast started looking for real concessions that the sports bodies like the GAA, rugby, horse racing, etc receive.
It will be interesting to see where he's coming from with this?
Or maybe there are no vintage enthusiasts in West Cork whos' vote he relies on.

Statistics are here;
http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=THA11
Vintage/Vetern accounts for about 1% of all vehicles

johnty56

I just looked him up, and sent him the following email... I suggest anyone else who feels the same drops him a line.. especially anyone living in his constituency

Dear Deputy Harrington,

I note that you have tabled a Dail question on the subject of Vintage vehicles.
Can I ask to what end you are seeking this information? Is it, as seems likely, related to some attempt to gain even more revenue for the government by taxing people's hobby? Vin/vet vehicles are afforded a special rate of tax primarily because of how little they are used. In order to insure one you must first have a regular day to day car, insured in your name and on which you thus pay tax.
Raising this tax rate would destroy a hobby and an outlet for many in this country, the majority of whom I know would be older gentlemen, with a sparsity of social outlets at their disposal.
Vintage cars bring pleasure both to those involved directly and those who enjoy them vicariously, at parades, shows, events etc.
It is worth noting that the UK operate a completely free tax system for vintage vehicles over a certain age.

best Regards,

Dublindigi

Just in case anyone got the wrong end of the stick, Noel Harrington is on the side of Classic - Vintage and Veteran car owners and the many benefits they bring to the community. He would like to see a reduced tax rate introduced or a Zero rate as is the case in Northern Ireland and the UK. Thats why he has tabled this question.

hi5

Dublindigi wrote: »

Just in case anyone got the wrong end of the stick, Noel Harrington is on the side of Classic - Vintage and Veteran car owners and the many benefits they bring to the community. He would like to see a reduced tax rate introduced or a Zero rate as is the case in Northern Ireland and the UK. Thats why he has tabled this question.

Thank you,
But it doesn't read like that,

"if he will provide a breakdown of the years of these vehicles, the classes of these vehicles, the horsepower categories of these vehicles and the total cost to the Exchequer of these concessions; and if he will make a statement on the matter."

Has someone complained about the already low tax rate?

If he wants to make himself useful, how about sorting out the registration mess and re-introducing the un-issued old (pre 87) series registrations.

Having said that all support for the vintage scene is welcome.

Is the ministers answer up on text yet?

johnty56

He replied to me, stating that he was looking into the area as he wanted to suggest a zero rate for classic cars.

unfit2006

Johnty56, whatever he may be saying now, it certainly appears by the wording of his PQ that Mr. Harrington had other motives in raising the issue in the first place.

He may have got a bit of an awakening when he read his e-mails later in the day.

I think he may now be talking out of the 2 sides of his mouth on this one.

kaizersoze

Loose lips sink ships.

All he's doing is drawing attention to it which increases the possibility of the the current rate going up.

Agricola

With the state of this economy theres no way in hell the tax rate on vintage cars will go any other way than up tbh.

bigroad

To be quiet honest ,there is a fair few landrovers knocking around with vintage tax and a newer body thrown on top .This is the kind of stuff that will destroy vintage tax.Its out there and in the face of ,you know Who.

corktina

bigroad wrote: »

To be quiet honest ,there is a fair few landrovers knocking around with vintage tax and a newer body thrown on top .This is the kind of stuff that will destroy vintage tax.Its out there and in the face of ,you know Who.

....not to mention the legions of ringers brought into the country and operating on false plates, and thus with no insurance.

manta mad

corktina wrote: »

....not to mention the legions of ringers brought into the country and operating on false plates, and thus with no insurance.

and more going this way daily

I see a good few up for sale on Donedeal at the moment and it do's my head in when I see ... original irish car !!!!!
and clearly their not !!

the people who genuinely vrt and tax their classics and nearly classics are the one's who will suffer as it will paste all of us with the bad brush ...

between us all on here and the cars we know ,id say we could easily point out over 100 cars that are not the year they seem to be !

hi5

This is the only question I can find by Noel Harrington yesterday, nothing to do with vintage vehicles?


Scroll down,
http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2013043000028?opendocument

macplaxton

No answer to the question as quoted below.

http://oireachtasdebates.oireachtas.ie/debates%20authoring/debateswebpack.nsf/takes/dail2013050100008?opendocument#F03600

P13 onwards today.

Deputy Noel Harrington:.....I raised a particular matter last week and I was disappointed that the Minister for the Environment, Community and Local Government was not in a position to provide the relevant figures. I refer to the motor taxation which applies in respect of vintage cars.

In the UK, the taxation on vintage cars is nil in most cases. I ask that consideration be given to minimising or removing the taxation of vintage car owners through registered clubs. These clubs do fantastic work in raising money for charities and they would welcome an alleviation of their tax contributions. I was hoping to have the figures for this debate, but they are not significant. Treating the clubs in this way would benefit them and acknowledge the fact that we value their work on behalf of charities throughout the country.....

Silvera

What is this guy playing at? Who asked him to raise this question?

We have a fair, low, (concession) vintage tax rate in a country of c.4 million - as compared to the UK where they gather motor tax income from a population of c.60 million (and therefore can 'afford' a nil vintage motor tax rate).

Furthermore, if the DoE start comparing Irl v UK they may decide to also introduce a cut off year (i.e. in the UK only pre-1973 vehicles have the 'nil rate' - all vehicles after that year must pay full normal motor tax rates).

If anything needs attention in the Irish vintage scene it's the messed-up vintage registration system, i.e. 7-digit ZV plates (e.g. ZV 91003) and ridiculous year plates (e.g. 80-D-120001).

This guy is no friend of the vintage scene imho.
He is drawing undue attention to a fair vintage road-tax system.

This could really open a 'can of worms' for all vintage/classic car owners!

macplaxton

Silvera wrote: »

(i.e. in the UK only pre-1973 vehicles have the 'nil rate' - all vehicles after that year must pay full normal motor tax rates).

[irrelevant sidenote]Point noted, but that's until April 2014, when it'll be pre-1974. The cut-off will be extended by one year as announced in UK Chancellor of the Exchequer in his last budget.[/irrelevant sidenote]

Silvera

macplaxton wrote: »

[irrelevant sidenote]Point noted, but that's until April 2014, when it'll be pre-1974. The cut-off will be extended by one year as announced in UK Chancellor of the Exchequer in his last budget.[/irrelevant sidenote]

Duly noted. However this is a recent UK development, and up until the last UK budget it was fixed at 1973 forever.

I have just sent an email to Deputy Harrington (noel.harrington@oir.ie) expressing my concern at his raising of this issue, and hightlighting the need for a better Vintage Registration System ....and a lower road tax rate for vehicles in the 20 - 30 year age bracket (which are currently in a road tax 'no mans land' - too old for everyday use by most drivers, and too expensive to road tax for occasional use by enthusiasts.

carchaeologist

Silvera wrote: »

I have just sent an email to Deputy Harrington (noel.harrington@oir.ie) expressing my concern at his raising of this issue, and hightlighting the need for a better Vintage Registration System ....and a lower road tax rate for vehicles in the 20 - 30 year age bracket (which are currently in a road tax 'no mans land' - too old for everyday use by most drivers, and too expensive to road tax for occasional use by enthusiasts.

Totally Sensible, but neither will ever happen. Not enough people care about the plates, the clubs dont give a toss, and the government don't care about the tax.
Horse...Dead...Flogging.