Please help me get some perspective

LegacyUser

I've been with my boyfriend for about four and a half years now and on the surface we're probably one of the happiest couples you'd see; we rarely argue, he makes me tea and occasionally buys me little gifts, we share a lot of interests but we're not afraid to have our own friends and go out separately. In fact I probably go out for a drink with friends more than I go out with him because he's a real home bird.

Underneath the surface, though, it's different. I've spent most of the last two years unhappy because he told me on our second anniversary that he wasn't 'in love' with me, but that he'd previously said he did so that I wouldn't leave him. I know I should have ended it then, but I didn't. I kept hoping that one day he'd tell me. He never did, not until January just gone when I'd had a couple of beers and it all came out; after I told him how hard it was to keep going and pretend I was happy like this, then he told me that of course he loved me, and he was sorry, and I cried and he cried and I felt like a weight had been lifted off me. That night I told him that I wanted children soon, I'm 31 and I said that ideally I'd like to have 2 by the time I'm 35, he said that that was an agreeable plan and I started mentally preparing for the next step; getting house and life in order.

We went out with some friends at the weekend, just for a couple of drinks, and someone mentioned that they were nervous about doing something. OH asked me quietly why they were nervous and I said "Well, it's like us talking about having kids; I'm really excited about it, but at the same time I'm nervous about discussing when to stop using contraception" and he said something like "Sure, that was only some auld drunk talk". I think he realised immediately by my shocked silence that I hadn't seen it as drunk talk, because pretty soon after he feigned illness and excused himself. I stayed for another hour or so before I went home in a daze. Yesterday he was being as nice as pie to me, bringing me tea, asking was I alright. I told him that we'd talk about it later, and I was as pleasant as possible to him despite the fact that I could barely look at him and I vary between just wanting to curl up in a corner and cry and feeling numb.

I know that I have to talk to him about this tonight, but I'm not looking forward to it. I don't know what's going to happen. I feel that he's telling me what I want to hear, and then acting surprised when I accept what he says as true and start to plan a future around it. I do believe that he loves me, but has difficulty expressing it. I think we're both accustomed to bottling up our feelings which is why this stuff is coming out in fits and bursts, and usually when I've had a drink. What keeps running through my mind is that I've never been secretive about my desire for children, I told him early on in our relationship that that's what I wanted and I could have been one of those despicable women who get pregnant 'by accident' and have what I wanted by now, but I wanted to do it right, not force him into it.

I don't really know what I expect here. Some perspective, I suppose, on whether or not it was reasonable for him to assume that because I'd had a few beers when we this came out in January that I wasn't really serious. I don't want to end it with him, but I don't want to be stuck with a nebulous 'someday' for starting a family, but at the same time I don't want to say 'I'm coming off the pill in six months, so it' make your mind up time'. I'm also concious of the stereotypical image of women in their 30s, desperate for babies, so I guess that part of me is worried that if I split up with him I'll never find anyone else.

Sorry for the rambling.

judgefudge

Well what strikes me is that the two of you need to sit down and have a full and frank discussion, no drink involved. Sit him down and ask him exactly what he wants. If he says he loves you and wants kids, maybe try to decide on a plan of action for when you'll start trying. That's one way to see if he's serious. I know you said you don't want to give him an ultimatum but unfortunately he sounds like he might be the type to tell you what you want to hear just to prolong things.

Don't worry about seeming "desperate for babies". You're in your thirties and you've always wanted children, there is nothing unreasonable about being realistic here. If you have an idea of what you want to do with your life go for it. If he isn't willing to give you that then you should find someone who will.

Merkin

Weary wrote: »

I'm also concious of the stereotypical image of women in their 30s, desperate for babies, so I guess that part of me is worried that if I split up with him I'll never find anyone else.

That's not a good enough reason to stay with someone if it's not right. Seems like neither of you are blessed with particularly polished communication skills and really important stuff is not being dealt with.

Rather than establish in "fits and bursts" where you are both headed, what your aspirations are and whether you love one another, it seems like you are both due quite a serious conversation. And don't be afraid to ask the hard questions for fear of the answers, if your partner is not as invested as you are and doesn't love you then it's best to find out now rather than spend another few years with him. If he doesn't want children with you then you have to accept and respect his decision and then decide what to do.

I find your comment about deserving a pat on the back for not getting pregnant accidentally on purpose rather odd as well. This is one of the single most stupid thing a woman can do and invariably backfires. It does however suggest in your heart of hearts that you know he doesn't want the same things as you.

ManOfMystery

You only have 1 option here really, and that's for you both to lay your cards on the table tonight. You have to reinforce to your boyfriend that he needs to be utterly and brutally honest - tell the truth, regardless if it's something you want to hear or not. And the same goes for you. If he decides to appease you tonight by saying this or that, the situation will only drag on and more time will be wasted.

You've been together almost 5 years, so this isn't a new relationship in it's honeymoon period. Your boyfriend has had more than enough time now to know instinctively if you're the person he wants to be with for good and whether he wants to have children with you. I'm not saying that 5 years of being together means you should get married tomorrow, but by now he should at least have an idea of whether or not he wants that in the next few years.

It's a fact of life that women have a biological clock, like it or not. I know there's a stigma when it comes to talking about it, but realistically the issue can't be ignored. If you're in a long term relationship with a man who has not yet committed in some way, and he knows you want children, then I feel very strongly that it's only fair for him to be open and honest with you about his idea of his future.

Lorna123

Maybe it would be better to agree on living together first before talking about getting pregnant. Living together would give you both a chance of getting ready for a child. You are only 31, you still have 9 safe years to have a child. There is no harm in saying you would like 2 children before you are 40 but you don't have to start trying to have them this year. It all sounds a bit rushed to me.

Lorna123

Lorna123 wrote: »

Maybe it would be better to agree on living together first before talking about getting pregnant. Living together would give you both a chance of getting ready for a child. You are only 31, you still have 9 safe years to have a child. There is no harm in saying you would like 2 children before you are 40 but you don't have to start trying to have them this year. It all sounds a bit rushed to me.

Eh....9 safe years? If she's lucky. Lots of women have great difficulty conceiving beyond 35. Let's not mince the facts. If I knew for sure I wanted kids, not a hope in hell I'd leave it that late on purpose.

I'm kind of in the same position as OP - long term relationship and thinking about whether or not this is 'it' and we're thinking kids and marriage. If we're not both on board with this in the next year or two (working towards it, not necessarily actually having the kids), I will end it while I still have a reasonable amount of time to find someone else. I'm almost 28. Might seem young to some, but I know way too many people who ended up being strung along until they were too old to have kids.

He seems a bit of a commitment phobe to me, and it seems odd to be in a relationship with so little communication. That along with the admission that he wasn't in love with you would have me running for the hills, personally. Life is too short for bullsh1t.

Czarcasm

OP I could give you some perspective, but I'm not sure you're going to like it, so I'll try and put it as sensitively as possible-

Weary wrote: »

I've been with my boyfriend for about four and a half years now and on the surface we're probably one of the happiest couples you'd see; we rarely argue, he makes me tea and occasionally buys me little gifts, we share a lot of interests but we're not afraid to have our own friends and go out separately. In fact I probably go out for a drink with friends more than I go out with him because he's a real home bird.

First off OP, it easy to never argue when you never communicate how you're truly feeling, and it looks like you've been bottling up a hell of a lot for the sake of keeping the peace between ye. It's easy to make cups of tea for somebody, but it doesn't actually show you care about what that person REALLY needs. I have an eight year old child here that makes me cups of coffee every so often and he thinks that's great, but if I ask him to clean his room (what REALLY needs doing) - "Ehh, I'm very busy right now, I'll do it though", and who do you think would end up doing it if I didn't force him to take some responsibility? Exactly.

The highlighted part about him being a homebird, that's all fine, but the fact that you say you go out with friends more than you go out with him, sounds like you'd prefer if things were the other way around, but again- this suits him, so he's not likely to start any argument about it.

Underneath the surface, though, it's different. I've spent most of the last two years unhappy because he told me on our second anniversary that he wasn't 'in love' with me, but that he'd previously said he did so that I wouldn't leave him. I know I should have ended it then, but I didn't. I kept hoping that one day he'd tell me.

Honestly OP, can you not see a pattern emerging yet? You hang in there every time hoping that he'll change, until you can't take it any more; confront him about it, and he switches into "I give a shít" mode and tells you exactly what he thinks you want to hear yet again because he's thinking you'll leave him. And you fall for his manipulation yet again, and you wait, and you don't argue, and bottle it up again till the next time.

He never did, not until January just gone when I'd had a couple of beers and it all came out; after I told him how hard it was to keep going and pretend I was happy like this, then he told me that of course he loved me, and he was sorry, and I cried and he cried and I felt like a weight had been lifted off me. That night I told him that I wanted children soon, I'm 31 and I said that ideally I'd like to have 2 by the time I'm 35, he said that that was an agreeable plan and I started mentally preparing for the next step; getting house and life in order.

See my above paragraph.

We went out with some friends at the weekend, just for a couple of drinks, and someone mentioned that they were nervous about doing something. OH asked me quietly why they were nervous and I said "Well, it's like us talking about having kids; I'm really excited about it, but at the same time I'm nervous about discussing when to stop using contraception" and he said something like "Sure, that was only some auld drunk talk".

Sensitive as a sledgehammer. You confided in him that you were excited about having children, but you were nervous, and the reply- "Sure, that was only some auld drunk talk".

At this point OP your boyfriend so far makes you a couple of cups of tea, has told you he doesn't love you, then he told you he does, then he told you he was sorry and that he didn't want you to leave him, so he agreed with you about your desire for children, then told you he thought it was only drunk talk, even though you'd obviously talked about it since that night, and you STILL hang on in there.

I think he realised immediately by my shocked silence that I hadn't seen it as drunk talk, because pretty soon after he feigned illness and excused himself. I stayed for another hour or so before I went home in a daze. Yesterday he was being as nice as pie to me, bringing me tea, asking was I alright. I told him that we'd talk about it later, and I was as pleasant as possible to him despite the fact that I could barely look at him and I vary between just wanting to curl up in a corner and cry and feeling numb.

How many frickin' cups of tea are we up to now? You'd nearly be given to think your boyfriend thinks a cup of frickin' tea solves everything. He must make an incredible cup of tea! I wonder what he's like for a coffee, I could do with one after reading your OP, and if they're good enough that you've put up with his crap for the last five years!

No, but seriously OP, nice of him too to scuttle off home at the party and leave you there reeling from his idiocy, and then to come back to you the next morning thinking he's a great lad because he made you a cup of tea! Fairness OP, come on, you MUST be seeing a pattern by now!

I know that I have to talk to him about this tonight, but I'm not looking forward to it. I don't know what's going to happen. I feel that he's telling me what I want to hear, and then acting surprised when I accept what he says as true and start to plan a future around it.

At LAST, the penny is beginning to drop.

I do believe that he loves me, but has difficulty expressing it. I think we're both accustomed to bottling up our feelings which is why this stuff is coming out in fits and bursts, and usually when I've had a drink.

OP making somebody a couple of cups of tea requires an incredibly little amount of effort, and you're accomodating him by making excuses for his behaviour and bottling things up, allowing yourself to be used as a doormat for a frickin' cup of tea, when you REALLY should've left him the minute he said he wasn't in love with you. You've made allowances for him every time, and even covered and made excuses for his behaviour. At this point OP, he's on the pigs back really, got himself settled, because he knows YOU'LL settle for... yeah, I think you know what's coming!

What keeps running through my mind is that I've never been secretive about my desire for children, I told him early on in our relationship that that's what I wanted and I could have been one of those despicable women who get pregnant 'by accident' and have what I wanted by now, but I wanted to do it right, not force him into it.

In all fairness OP, he's had nearly five years of you hanging around waiting for him to get used to the idea, and all that time he's been stringing you along telling you what you want to hear and a couple of cups of tea! Jesus OP, you really, I mean REALLY, deserve to be treated better than that. You keep everything bottled up and when you pull him up on anything, he fúcks off into the kitchen to make you tea. Can you not see how he's just placating you and treating you like a simpleton? Cup 'o tea- be grand!

At this stage, you need to get out, for your own sake, there's no point in even forcing his hand at this stage because he'll just fall back into his old ways, only this time leaving you holding the baby in one hand, and an incredible cup of tea in the other.

I don't really know what I expect here. Some perspective, I suppose, on whether or not it was reasonable for him to assume that because I'd had a few beers when we this came out in January that I wasn't really serious.

You made it clear to him from the beginning of your relationship that you wanted children, he just couldn't care less for what you wanted. He comes off as an incredibly immature and selfish individual IMO, and you'd really want to ask yourself some serious, serious questions before you'd even think about having a child with him. YOU'RE ready for a child, but you've been dealing with one for nearly the last five years tbh. Do you really think your boyfriend is ready for a child, or is he just going to do the bottle feeds?

I don't want to end it with him, but I don't want to be stuck with a nebulous 'someday' for starting a family, but at the same time I don't want to say 'I'm coming off the pill in six months, so it' make your mind up time'.

So you don't want to end it with him, and you don't want to be left hanging, and you don't want to tell him to get his shít together. OP I could almost predict his answer at this stage-

Ye'll go to bed (you on top because he'll just want to lie there and let you do all the work!), do the business, with as much pressure as possible, seeing as you can barely look at him but you're getting what you want so you're happy, and he's just relieved that you're off his back for another while, and then five minutes later he'll get up and go make you a cup of tea! (At this point I'm beginning to wonder is he slipping something herbal in your tea!).

I'm also concious of the stereotypical image of women in their 30s, desperate for babies, so I guess that part of me is worried that if I split up with him I'll never find anyone else.

OP the above just sounds like your own irrational fears are pushing you into a "must have it all, keep up with the friends" scenario. All your friends think you have a great relationship because they don't know any different, and you don't want them to know things are not as rosy as they seem, so the "next step" is to have a baby and overlook all that's wrong in the relationship as if it doesn't matter that you're deeply unhappy in your relationship- at least you have the appearances of having it all.

All due respect OP, but seriously, you've GOT to put yourself first, and don't mind all these nonsense notions about middle aged bunny boilers- that's all it is; a stereotype. It's not real, it's a stereotype perpetuated by girls like yourself who feel their biological clock has gone from a mere snoozy tick tock to full on atomic bomb tick tock. You're so focussed on having it all that you've made allowances for your lazy boyfriend, bottled everything up from your friends, and if you stay going the way you're going, you'll end up with ten times as much work trying to keep things together and keep everybody happy and trying to manage a child at the same time.

You need to step back from things a bit and take some time to yourself to REALLY get some perspective on EVERYTHING that's going on in your life at the moment, because trust me, you won't have much time to do it when a child comes along, and I don't care how good the boyfriend is for a cup of tea- you'll end up biting lumps out of the cup just to bottle up your frustration if you don't take some time out now to yourself and put the brakes on for a bit to give yourself some perspective.

Chronic Button

Ok, you have asked for perspective. An outsider's view: your relationship is a disaster and has been for years. It either needs to change dramatically and soon, or end.

LegacyUser

OP here. Thank you all for your advice and suggestions. We sat down this evening and talked for a couple of hours. We agreed that we both have a problem with communication and agreed that going to see a counsellor would be a good idea.