Boost Mains water pressure

reilig

We are the last house on a private group water scheme which is fed from a County Council Scheme. The house is at the top of a hill. Our water pressure during the day is so low that quite often the tanks in our attic do not fill up, only one shower per day allowed, washing machine switches off, dishwasher beeps and beeps and we basically have very poor water pressure.

Now I am well aware that the problem is that there are too many houses on the line and its bore is not big enough. I have contacted the council to see what my options are and basically I have diddly squat!! They told me that I could upgrade the whole pipeline on my road - at a cost of about €20k to me. There are no longer upgrade grants available and every other house on the line has sufficient pressure.

Now, we have water. It comes in a 1" pipe and we always have some flow at the tap at our garage, but by the time it reaches the sink or the washing machine, it is very low pressure. It is fed from the garage by a 1/2" pipe. The washing machine can take 10 minutes to fill with water on a normal day - the 39 minute quick wash takes an hour and a half.

Has anyone got experience of using one of these or similar in line pumps to boost water pressure?

http://www.home-boost.co.uk/

Or can anyone offer me additional advice as to what I should do?

Outkast_IRE

Is breaking away from the group water scheme and having your own well again an option ?

reilig

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Is breaking away from the group water scheme and having your own well again an option ?

Unfortunately not. New house on an isolated hill. No well within 500m of it. To drill a well there would be expensive.

Pete67

I had a similar problem years ago, and eventually solved it by adding additional storage capacity in the attic (2 new tanks plus the original, all properly supported). These tanks filled overnight even when the water pressure was too low during the day, and there was always enough stored water stored to flush toilets, take showers, run washing machine etc during the day without running the tanks dry and causing airlocks.

You might need to change the washing machine over to use water from the CWS tanks rather than direct from the mains, but you probably want to keep the dishwasher on mains water, and the supply to the kitchen sink also, but it should solve the problems with washing machine, showers and toilet flushing etc.

If you do this make sure the additional tanks do not lead to stagnated water - i.e. connect them in series and have the outlet(s) at the end of the last tank, and the inlet piped to the first tank only.

I was always told that you cannot connect a pump directly to the mains, you need to install a break tank first. It might be possible to install the additional storage tanks in the garage instead, and pump from there to existing attic tank to supply washing machine, showers, toilets etc, but I would still keep the dishwasher and kitchen sink directly on the mains supply. The advantage of putting the tanks in the attic is that the need for a pump is avoided.

reilig

Pete67 wrote: »

I had a similar problem years ago, and eventually solved it by adding additional storage capacity in the attic (2 new tanks plus the original, all properly supported). These tanks filled overnight even when the water pressure was too low during the day, and there was always enough stored water stored to flush toilets, take showers, run washing machine etc during the day without running the tanks dry and causing airlocks.

You might need to change the washing machine over to use water from the CWS tanks rather than direct from the mains, but you probably want to keep the dishwasher on mains water, and the supply to the kitchen sink also, but it should solve the problems with washing machine, showers and toilet flushing etc.

If you do this make sure the additional tanks do not lead to stagnated water - i.e. connect them in series and have the outlet(s) at the end of the last tank, and the inlet piped to the first tank only.

I was always told that you cannot connect a pump directly to the mains, you need to install a break tank first. It might be possible to install the additional storage tanks in the garage instead, and pump from there to existing attic tank to supply washing machine, showers, toilets etc, but I would still keep the dishwasher and kitchen sink directly on the mains supply. The advantage of putting the tanks in the attic is that the need for a pump is avoided.

I put in the second tank when I was building the house. The only thing I haven't done is connected the washing machine to it. The problem is that some nights we haven't got enough pressure to fill the tanks and normally when we do have enough pressure, you can hear it dribbling into the tanks for the whole night - dribbling water is louder and more annoying than a fast flow for a few minutes.

The pump that I linked above is a new type which you are allowed to connect to the mains as it has some type of protection which cuts out the risk of pumping back into the mains and contaminating it. But I'm guessing that nobody here has experience of them?

QBE

filteration system would be the best answer to your problem. however they are expensive and require space for the plant to be fitted. However You could get a good one supplied and fitted for approx. 3000e.

reilig

QBE wrote: »

filteration system would be the best answer to your problem. however they are expensive and require space for the plant to be fitted. However You could get a good one supplied and fitted for approx. 3000e.

I don't see the need for a filtration system. The water is clean. Worst case scenario I might need a storage tank and a pump which would come in at approximately €600 + Vat. I just wanted opinions on whether I might get away with just installing an in-line pump.

QBE

reilig wrote: »

I don't see the need for a filtration system. The water is clean. Worst case scenario I might need a storage tank and a pump which would come in at approximately €600 + Vat. I just wanted opinions on whether I might get away with just installing an in-line pump.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056936621

sorry that's the post I was reading. Don't know how, put posted the reply here.
Yes you are right. storage tank and a pump would be fine. Do it yourself for approx. 250/300e including materials. you be getting a great booster pump and tank for 600e.

deandean

I had the same problem in my last house in Dublin, the water pressure was very low and at times there was not enough pressure to get water to the attic storage tank.

I purchased a booster pump with an accumulator from my local plumbing supply shop, I think it cost about €250. It looked like this:

I found the incoming mains water pipe, it was under the floorboards, and fortunately I had enough space under the floorboards to install the pump. I took a supply from a nearby socket. It worked perfectly, the water supply was pressurised about 2.5 Bar and I never had a problem with supply pressure again. The only problem was there was a bit of noise when the pump was running.

If you are getting one, make sure that it is suitable for potable (drinking) water. And get the largest accumulator vessel you can, preferably 25 litre, this will mean that the pump is not starting every time you turn the tap on for a couple of seconds.

QBE

deandean wrote: »

I had the same problem in my last house in Dublin, the water pressure was very low and at times there was not enough pressure to get water to the attic storage tank.

I purchased a booster pump with an accumulator from my local plumbing supply shop, I think it cost about €250. It looked like this:

I found the incoming mains water pipe, it was under the floorboards, and fortunately I had enough space under the floorboards to install the pump. I took a supply from a nearby socket. It worked perfectly, the water supply was pressurised about 2.5 Bar and I never had a problem with supply pressure again. The only problem was there was a bit of noise when the pump was running.

If you are getting one, make sure that it is suitable for potable (drinking) water. And get the largest accumulator vessel you can, preferably 25 litre, this will mean that the pump is not starting every time you turn the tap on for a couple of seconds.

that pump needs a resovoir. You can put mains into it, but I wouldn't recommend it

deandean

deandean wrote: »

I had the same problem in my last house in Dublin, the water pressure was very low and at times there was not enough pressure to get water to the attic storage tank.

I purchased a booster pump with an accumulator from my local plumbing supply shop, I think it cost about €250. It looked like this:

I found the incoming mains water pipe, it was under the floorboards, and fortunately I had enough space under the floorboards to install the pump. I took a supply from a nearby socket. It worked perfectly, the water supply was pressurised about 2.5 Bar and I never had a problem with supply pressure again. The only problem was there was a bit of noise when the pump was running.

If you are getting one, make sure that it is suitable for potable (drinking) water. And get the largest accumulator vessel you can, preferably 25 litre, this will mean that the pump is not starting every time you turn the tap on for a couple of seconds.

You can not pump what's not there.

That pump on a mains is just plain and simply wrong and not the answer, if next door fitted a similar pump in answer to the problems that pump was causing them how long would it be before the situation was just ridicules

As mentioned break tank to feed the a pump that size or a 200ltr accumulator to store mains water or a small pump to maintain a minimum flow rate.

Given a choice I'd go for the brake tank and pump as it works very well.

deandean

gary71 wrote: »

You can not pump what's not there.

That pump on a mains is just plain and simply wrong and not the answer, if next door fitted a similar pump in answer to the problems that pump was causing them how long would it be before the situation was just ridicules

As mentioned break tank to feed the a pump that size or a 200ltr accumulator to store mains water or a small pump to maintain a minimum flow rate.

Given a choice I'd go for the brake tank and pump as it works very well.

Well, it worked fine for me.

But I see your point about supplying the pump from a break tank, it'd work better. My pump used to cavitate a bit as it wasn't getting enough water from the mains.
Yes I was the only one on the road with a booster pump, and I kept quiet about it . My neighbour asked me one time how come there was so much water coming out of my garden hose (great for washing the car).

deandean

deandean wrote: »

Well, it worked fine for me.

I'm sure it was fantastic but if your neighbours didn't have non return valves on their mains you could be causing a negative pressure on their supply sucking cack in to the drink water.

I find the idea of putting a big pump on the mains mental :pac: but each to there own, it's something that should not be done.

deandean

gary71 wrote: »

I find the idea of putting a big pump on the mains mental :pac: but each to there own, it's something that should not be done.

Well, that 'homeboost' pump in the link in the OP is just that, and it seems to have all the required approvals, however it is probably a lower powered unit with reduced flowrate whereas my pump was about 1 hp. It should sort out the OP's problem, even if it is on the expensive side, also it looks to be small and easy to install.

deandean

deandean wrote: »

Well, that 'homeboost' pump in the link in the OP is just that, and it seems to have all the required approvals, however it is probably a lower powered unit with reduced flowrate whereas my pump was about 1 hp. It should sort out the OP's problem, even if it is on the expensive side, also it looks to be small and easy to install.

It's a completely different animal and is designed to maintain a minimum agreed working water pressure.

The pump you posted is drawing more water than the mains can supply and is as wrong as you can get when dealing with a mains supply, it should never be done. How can you draw more water than is available, what do you think it's doing to the water supply?

A water supply works on positive pressure things can go wrong when its on negative pressure as it is when a large pump is fitted, imagine all the leaking pipes underground and more people started fitting ludicrous big pumps you'd be sucking ground water into the water supply:eek:

deandean

gary71 wrote: »

It's a completely different animal and is designed to maintain a minimum agreed working water pressure.

The pump you posted is drawing more water than the mains can supply and is as wrong as you can get when dealing with a mains supply, it should never be done. How can you draw more water than is available, what do you think it's doing to the water supply?

Looks to me like the two animals (mine and homeboost) are very similar.

Have a look at the video on that 'homeboost'. With pump off, mains is delivering 3 L per minute. With pump on, mains is delivering 12 L per minute. Where does the extra 9 L per minute come from? It is sucked in from the mains! Same as mine. And that unit has approval, even if only in the UK.

The only solution I see that doesn't suck water from the mains, is to have a break tank as we have discussed.

Anyway, with this horrible water metering coming in, I reckon the market for booster pumps is going to dry up, people will be trying to use less water, they will be wanting to convert their 12 L per minute shower back to a 3 L per minute shower!

deandean

deandean wrote: »

Well, that 'homeboost' pump in the link in the OP is just that, and it seems to have all the required approvals, however it is probably a lower powered unit with reduced flowrate whereas my pump was about 1 hp. It should sort out the OP's problem, even if it is on the expensive side, also it looks to be small and easy to install.

deandean wrote: »

Looks to me like the two animals (mine and homeboost) are very similar.

Have a look at the video on that 'homeboost'. With pump off, mains is delivering 3 L per minute. With pump on, mains is delivering 12 L per minute. Where does the extra 9 L per minute come from? It is sucked in from the mains! Same as mine. And that unit has approval, even if only in the UK.

The only solution I see that doesn't suck water from the mains, is to have a break tank as we have discussed.

Anyway, with this horrible water metering coming in, I reckon the market for booster pumps is going to dry up, people will be trying to use less water, they will be wanting to convert their 12 L per minute shower back to a 3 L per minute shower!

Pumping the mains has always been a big no no, some pump manufactures get away with it by maintaining the minimum agreed flow rate, any pump fitted can impact on your neighbours and not in a nice way:eek:, I'm not going to defend a home boost pump but I understand what their trying to achieve.

Agreed on break tank but large accumulators are used also with pressure issues.