bull EBIs

aidanki

hi all,

in the process of buying a bull at the min, I want a british fresian type bull, want cows not horses, they are also more suitable to our wettish climate as they are smaller and lighter

was looking at some figures and I see most if not all of british fresians are rated negative on volume and protein

take this one
http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/744815112

milk is -255, thus the probability is a heifer from this bull will have less milk than her mother, assuming mother is rated 0 on milk kgs?

am I correct on this?

Timmaay

No, not based on the dam, the whole EBI index is based on a reference dam from back when they invented the whole index. Her EBI would have been zero, and all her traits were zero also, so -255kg of milk means 255kg less than that reference dam. (at least thats my understanding of it!)

I was considering BF also, but any of Progressives offerings were poor enough on production, so decided to stick with the HOs for now. Using as much as the likes of http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/866587979 who is one of PGs best bulls, fairly small also, with a low stature, so wont be as tall and big as many of the other HOs. A 1/2 bred JE/HO bull mightn't be a bad option either maybe? Would have decent solids, and certainly going to be fairly small!

aidanki

ok- lets assume my cow has 0 milk trait in her EBI

am I correct that if I cross this bull with a milk trait of -255, that the probability is a heifer from this bull will have less milk than her mother

the reference dam you speak of how many gals would she have been milking?

Timmaay

aidanki wrote: »

ok- lets assume my cow has 0 milk trait in her EBI

am I correct that if I cross this bull with a milk trait of -255, that the probability is a heifer from this bull will have less milk than her mother

the reference dam you speak of how many gals would she have been milking?

http://www.icbf.com/services/herdplus/files/Understanding_EBI.pdf

Milk kg |Fat kg |Prot kg |Fat% |Prot% |CI days |Surv%
5190| 196 |171 |3.79 |3.30 |387 |83

Base Population Performance – Cows born in 1995 and milk recorded in 2000

Ok I was wrong on the based on 1 dam, from the above it was based on some sample of cows born in 95 and milk recorded in 2000.

But anyways, ya got to remember also, the sire only gives 1/2 his traits to the calf, the rest comes from the dam (your cows), if you have say a HO dam giving 500+ kg in milk on average, the expected milk from the calf would be 1/2 of that +500 and 1/2 of the sires -255, so what's that, +122kg of milk over the 5190 base figure above.

bogman_bass

aidanki wrote: »

ok- lets assume my cow has 0 milk trait in her EBI

am I correct that if I cross this bull with a milk trait of -255, that the probability is a heifer from this bull will have less milk than her mother

yes you are correct

aidanki

who uses bulls like that ? , obviously someone who is not yield focused

I guess if you had a 2000gal herd and had a fertiliy problem or found your cows had a high lamness levels and decided to turn things down a notch then a bull like that is something you would consider

as you can see im not the most educated when it comes to EBi and the whole breeding scene, but learning a bit as I go along

aidanki

Timmaay wrote: »

No, not based on the dam, the whole EBI index is based on a reference dam from back when they invented the whole index. Her EBI would have been zero, and all her traits were zero also, so -255kg of milk means 255kg less than that reference dam. (at least thats my understanding of it!)

I was considering BF also, but any of Progressives offerings were poor enough on production, so decided to stick with the HOs for now. Using as much as the likes of http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/866587979 who is one of PGs best bulls, fairly small also, with a low stature, so wont be as tall and big as many of the other HOs. A 1/2 bred JE/HO bull mightn't be a bad option either maybe? Would have decent solids, and certainly going to be fairly small!

fairly small? how did you come that conclusion from this page I guess
http://herdplus.icbf.com/bull-search/view/animalId/866587979

whelan1

my main reason for using bf was to get strength back in to the cows- apart from some of stanflts cows- most ho/fr have nothing to fall back on if they get sick etc, have the first br/fr heifers in milking now, good blocky heifers compared to the holsteins that are calving with them- these are mainly from an oman stock bull- used lhz and ygb on the maiden br/fr heifers that i am serving at the minute...also calf health has improved 100%, that could be down to other things but a br/fr calf is alot stronger than a holstein... Still use alot of holstein ai on cows and br/fr bull to clean up

aidanki

whelan1 wrote: »

my main reason for using bf was to get strength back in to the cows- apart from some of stanflts cows- most ho/fr have nothing to fall back on if they get sick etc, have the first br/fr heifers in milking now, good blocky heifers compared to the holsteins that are calving with them- these are mainly from an oman stock bull- used lhz and ygb on the maiden br/fr heifers that i am serving at the minute...also calf health has improved 100%, that could be down to other things but a br/fr calf is alot stronger than a holstein... Still use alot of holstein ai on cows and br/fr bull to clean up

exactly my thinking

aidanki

whelan1 wrote: »

my main reason for using bf was to get strength back in to the cows- apart from some of stanflts cows- most ho/fr have nothing to fall back on if they get sick etc, have the first br/fr heifers in milking now, good blocky heifers compared to the holsteins that are calving with them- these are mainly from an oman stock bull- used lhz and ygb on the maiden br/fr heifers that i am serving at the minute...also calf health has improved 100%, that could be down to other things but a br/fr calf is alot stronger than a holstein... Still use alot of holstein ai on cows and br/fr bull to clean up

how do you find the british fresian heifers for milk yield?
prob quite good I guess

then again their mothers were all v high yielders ?

whelan1

aidanki wrote: »

how do you find the british fresian heifers for milk yield?
prob quite good I guess

then again their mothers were all v high yielders ?

will let you know later in the year, they are only calved just over a week, but like them so far....