Speed Van still pulling in former Speed Zone

Stinicker

I saw the Safety Go-Safe "Speed Van" taking the speed limit in a zone which was recently "de-zoned" and the camera sign was removed and instead a new zone was established on the road leading away from the town. The old zone has been removed from the map on the Garda website yet the speed van is still patrolling this old zone as alot of people were caught there where as the other zone is a harder location to catch speeders. Both are 60km zones.

Is this legal? I have never been caught but since the zone was removed I have found myself over the speed limit in the former zone. The van has no place in a former zone yet they are still patrolling it. Surely if caught you have grounds to appeal as the sign warning of the zone has been removed and likewise to the map.

CiniO

That's a good question.
While zones on garda website were updated, in my area signage hasn't changed at all, so I thought that new zones don't apply yet.

Stinicker

The new zone (N70) has had its signs erected and the old zone (R569) has had its signs removed. The town in question is Kenmare, Co. Kerry and the SpeedVan is patrolling the R569 to Kilgarvan Road which was the old speed zone and the new zone has been established on the N70 road towards Sneem.

Fred Swanson

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Kensington

Stinicker wrote: »

I saw the Safety Go-Safe "Speed Van" taking the speed limit in a zone which was recently "de-zoned" and the camera sign was removed and instead a new zone was established on the road leading away from the town. The old zone has been removed from the map on the Garda website yet the speed van is still patrolling this old zone as alot of people were caught there where as the other zone is a harder location to catch speeders. Both are 60km zones.

Is this legal? I have never been caught but since the zone was removed I have found myself over the speed limit in the former zone. The van has no place in a former zone yet they are still patrolling it. Surely if caught you have grounds to appeal as the sign warning of the zone has been removed and likewise to the map.

You're either speeding or you're not - that's essentially what it will boil down to if it comes to a fine/court situation.
The posted speed limit sign is your warning.

Fred Swanson

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CiniO

Kensington wrote: »

You're either speeding or you're not - that's essentially what it will boil down to if it comes to a fine/court situation.

Can one be fined for offence committed, if only proof of this offence was obtained illegally?

(I assume gosafe speed van taking photos in area not designed for it is doing it against the law, but it's too late for me to look up the appropriate regulations).

Fred Swanson

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Kensington

CiniO wrote: »

Can one be fined for offence committed, if only proof of this offence was obtained illegally?

(I assume gosafe speed van taking photos in area not designed for it is doing it against the law, but it's too late for me to look up the appropriate regulations).

An interesting point alright - but basically the argument you'd be putting forward is "Yes, your honour, I was speeding, but the individual who detected my speeding had no right to do so in the given area I was caught". I don't see it getting you anywhere positive in a court situation, it's certainly not something I'd be willing to try anyway

I'd imagine too, that, as the Gardaí can set up a speed checkpoint as and where they wish, without any indication or warning, they could argue that the GoSafe vans are acting as an authorised third party and therefore could also set up as and where they wished?

Fred Swanson

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Dotsie~tmp

Why not just obey the limit instead of crying on here. They are perfectly reasonable.

CiniO

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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As I said - if there are regulations allowing gosafe van's to take pictures only in designated areas, then if one of those vans is taking pictures (evidence of speeding) in not designated area, that means they are breaking the law, and therefore obtaining proofs of speeding offences illegally.

I think it's the same with recorded phone calls.

If you don't inform the other party on the phone that you are recording the call, then you are not allowed to record the call, and therefore even if you record it, this can't be used as an evidence in court (as it was obtained illegally).

I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct with this, but that's what I recall from somewhere.

Fred Swanson

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Jimdagym

Dotsie~tmp wrote: »

Why not just obey the limit instead of crying on here. They are perfectly reasonable.

Who is crying?
OP asked a reasonable question in a discussion forum. I fail to see the issue.

coolhull

The answer to OP'S problem would probably be .......



Slow down

CiniO

Kensington wrote: »

An interesting point alright - but basically the argument you'd be putting forward is "Yes, your honour, I was speeding, but the individual who detected my speeding had no right to do so in the given area I was caught". I don't see it getting you anywhere positive in a court situation, it's certainly not something I'd be willing to try anyway

But you can always say to the judge - "no Sir, I was not speeding". And if there is no evidence which judge could use to prove you were speeding, you can't be prosecuted.

I'd imagine too, that, as the Gardaí can set up a speed checkpoint as and where they wish, without any indication or warning, they could argue that the GoSafe vans are acting as an authorised third party and therefore could also set up as and where they wished?

If they can - then no bother anyone can be prosecuted.
But if there are regulations that prohibit them to take pictures outside the nominated areas, then it means they can't do it.

Fred Swanson

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dh0011

the vans are not always catching speeding. Some of their time is purely observation to learn if there is a need to put a proper speed camera there. It could be this and if so your grand.

wonski

IIRC Gosafe Vans are only allowed to operate within the zones. The surveys are only done by unmarked vans, so feel free to send them an email/letter and ask.

I assume these are Gosafe vans, because Gardai vans can be placed anywhere - no rules there.

dh0011

you know the unmarked vans are speed cameras when you go by so the OP might have passed an unmarked one.

wonski

dh0011 wrote: »

you know the unmarked vans are speed cameras when you go by so the OP might have passed an unmarked one.

Gosafe vans are clearly marked - I assumed he passed one of them. If not, no need to discuss this.

dh0011

here is what an unmarked one looks like.
http://www.traffictechnologytoday.com/news.php?NewsID=26090

not too different to some of the marked ones - OP could have passed something like this.

wonski

How will people know where the cameras will be?
GoSafe will only operate on sections of road which have a history of collisions occurring where speed was a contributory factor. The areas where the cameras are operating are available on the Garda website – garda.ie.
What will the safety cameras look like?
The cameras will operate from vans which will be marked with high visibility reflective material and display a safety camera symbol.

What you posted was a picture of unmarked speed camera van.
What op is talking about is totally different -

pa990

CiniO wrote: »

As I said - if there are regulations allowing gosafe van's to take pictures only in designated areas, then if one of those vans is taking pictures (evidence of speeding) in not designated area, that means they are breaking the law, and therefore obtaining proofs of speeding offences illegally.
I
I think it's the same with recorded phone calls.

If you don't inform the other party on the phone that you are recording the call, then you are not allowed to record the call, and therefore even if you record it, this can't be used as an evidence in court (as it was obtained illegally).

I'm not 100% sure if I'm correct with this, but that's what I recall from somewhere.

There is no law stating that they have to be in s designated zone. Only the policy and procedure says that they will be.
The evidence is still lawfully obtained.

As for the phone call recording. .. Only one party has to be aware that the call is being recorded. Ie you can't record someone else's phone conversation (phone tapping)

lau1247

wonski wrote: »

I like how you use the file picture with the speed van being clamped hahahaha that's the justice right there


OP, maybe you can write a lengthy formal letter to garda for clarification about dezoned area.. if they confirmed it in writing that they should not operate there, then that letter will be the golden ticket you need (if you're ever need it of course not because you're speeding)

Kensington

CiniO wrote: »

But you can always say to the judge - "no Sir, I was not speeding". And if there is no evidence which judge could use to prove you were speeding, you can't be prosecuted.



If they can - then no bother anyone can be prosecuted.
But if there are regulations that prohibit them to take pictures outside the nominated areas, then it means they can't do it.

I don't think there are regulations regarding photographs in a public place or any expectation of a right to privacy in a public place.

For example - if you have a dash cam then this could stand up in court as evidence in the case of an accident or dangerous driving involving another road user.

You could argue the ethics or policies of GoSafe vans working in non-designated areas but again, you're either speeding or you're not and you'd want to be very persuasive with a damn good lawyer and a deep pocket to argue your way out of an accusation of speeding on a technicality. Be cheaper just to pay the fine I'd say!

OldmanMondeo

How could it be illegal? The Gatso vans, both Gardai and Private can operate on any road in Ireland. Same way speeders will speed on any road.

ottostreet

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

How could it be illegal? The Gatso vans, both Gardai and Private can operate on any road in Ireland. Same way speeders will speed on any road.

Nope, only the Garda ones can.

The GoSafe ones can only work on sanctioned zones.

djimi

What exactly would your appeal be? Sorry your honor, I thought it was okay to break the speed limit cause the camera sign has been taken down? I'd love to be there to see how well that would go down!

AugustusMinimus

Simple question.

Can I buy a van with speed camera equipment and then act as a vigilante and give records of people speeding into the Gardaí.

This is essentially what these speed camera vans are doing if they are not operating in designated zones.

Kensington

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Simple question.

Can I buy a van with speed camera equipment and then act as a vigilante and give records of people speeding into the Gardaí.

This is essentially what these speed camera vans are doing if they are not operating in designated zones.

You could of course.
Not really any different to reporting someone robbing a house.

dh0011

I am sure you can buy a van and i doubt anyone will stop you checking speeds.

ironclaw

ottostreet wrote: »

The GoSafe ones can only work on sanctioned zones.

100% correct.