Small Oil leak

Eileen36

Hi-looking for bit of advice if anyone can help.

We have oil central heating with boiler built in to the Rayburn ( oil run one) in the kitchen. Next to Rayburn is the pipework and the hot water tank.

At the start of March we had the Rayburn serviced and afterwards maybe a day or 2 later, we noticed a smell of oil. I put it down to the stove being cleaned out. We really only use the Stove for heating kitchen in morning as no rad in there so it would be on for maybe an hr a day. The oil central heating again would mainly be on only for morning heating.
Anyway the smell has not gone away so today I took to investigating and found we do actually have a tiny leak in the hotpress from a pipe that is at the back and seems to be going from main oil entry pipe to the stove.

I ran the heating and placed plastic container under and after about 30 mins of heating on full maybe 3-4 drops came out.

Can anyone tell me if this needs professional help or can we fix ourselves? also who would I call?plumber? The guy who serviced the stove? unsure of who would be best to fix.

Here is a photo of where the leak is if it helps

many thanks

Dtp79

Eileen36 wrote: »

Hi-looking for bit of advice if anyone can help.

We have oil central heating with boiler built in to the Rayburn ( oil run one) in the kitchen. Next to Rayburn is the pipework and the hot water tank.

At the start of March we had the Rayburn serviced and afterwards maybe a day or 2 later, we noticed a smell of oil. I put it down to the stove being cleaned out. We really only use the Stove for heating kitchen in morning as no rad in there so it would be on for maybe an hr a day. The oil central heating again would mainly be on only for morning heating.
Anyway the smell has not gone away so today I took to investigating and found we do actually have a tiny leak in the hotpress from a pipe that is at the back and seems to be going from main oil entry pipe to the stove.

I ran the heating and placed plastic container under and after about 30 mins of heating on full maybe 3-4 drops came out.

Can anyone tell me if this needs professional help or can we fix ourselves? also who would I call?plumber? The guy who serviced the stove? unsure of who would be best to fix.

Here is a photo of where the leak is if it helps

many thanks

Is the leak coming directly out of that brass bodies valve or the nut going into it?
By right that valve should be outside if at all possible

Eileen36

Hi-
The house is old and we are in process of buying it from family and I hope in time to get rid of the stove...but for now it has to stay with all the dodgy pipework! We have airlocks every 2nd month or so but for now this is my main concern.

The leak from what I could see and feel was coming from the nut on the left hand side..not the main big part.

Dtp79

Eileen36 wrote: »

Hi-
The house is old and we are in process of buying it from family and I hope in time to get rid of the stove...but for now it has to stay with all the dodgy pipework! We have airlocks every 2nd month or so but for now this is my main concern.

The leak from what I could see and feel was coming from the nut on the left hand side..not the main big part.

Any decent plumber should be able to fix it

Eileen36

Ok-do you think it is ok to let it go for a wee while if we reduce time oil is on-it is just I was hoping to get plumber in to install a door on the fire next month anyway???

QBE

You only had it serviced recently. Give the service guy a call. He may fix it for free. I would if I had only recently serviced it for you.

Dtp79

Eileen36 wrote: »

Ok-do you think it is ok to let it go for a wee while if we reduce time oil is on-it is just I was hoping to get plumber in to install a door on the fire next month anyway???

Chance it if ya want. I wouldn't, especially with kerosene

Eileen36

Cheers for you help Dtp79

Will drop him an email now and see if he can come round next week to sort it..and hopefully fit a Boru door as well!


Eileen

Dtp79

Eileen36 wrote: »

Cheers for you help Dtp79

Will drop him an email now and see if he can come round next week to sort it..and hopefully fit a Boru door as well!


Eileen

No bother

shane0007

I would try to get it fixed sooner rather than later. Kerosene can give you a wicked headache, not to mention the possible fire risk.

Eileen36

Now if any of you had expert advice on stopping airlocks in the heating pipework in the attic every 2nd month I would be forever grateful! back to bleeding all the rads again tomorrow!

shane0007

You will either have a leak in the system or the system is pitching, re-oxygenating the system, assuming it is an open vented system as you have not mentioned having to top up the system continuously after bleeding but you could have an auto fill valve.

In your attic, you should have a small tank. Tie up the ball valve when the system is cold. Either mark the level of the water in the tank or measure the exact depth of the water with a ruler. Leave for 24 hours & re-check the level but again when the system is completely cold. If the level has dropped, then you have a leak. There are other circumstances, but this would be first & easiest to check.

QBE

Eileen36 wrote: »

Now if any of you had expert advice on stopping airlocks in the heating pipework in the attic every 2nd month I would be forever grateful! back to bleeding all the rads again tomorrow!

Could be leaking pipes pulling air into the system. Best bet is have an assessment of the heating system done and an overhaul if required.

QBE

Eileen36 wrote: »

Now if any of you had expert advice on stopping airlocks in the heating pipework in the attic every 2nd month I would be forever grateful! back to bleeding all the rads again tomorrow!

how old is your system? the reason I also state have an assessment done is because that property unknown to you could have had an outside boiler house with gb pipes blanked off and left un protected from the elements. Corrosion is taken place and maybe leaking into the soil unnoticed to you. Some things outside the obvious usually come with good assessment from an experienced fitter and problems just mitigated due to the information not been mentioned in the text books.

Eileen36

System has been updated -all pipes are in attic so any leak up there would be seen through ceiling and we recently insulated most of house and no leaks visible.

We seem to have some rads deciding not to work when we go from oil heating in morning to back boiler in the evening.. so all could work at 9am..but when we go to back boiler at 6pm then one room could decide not to heat..

2 days ago overflow pipe went off as temp on back boiler was too high ( accident) and now two bedroom rads not heating..
I have been to attic and the pipes leading to them is hot and half way along pipe it goes stone cold..
have bleed all 3 rads on this side-so room 1 working great, but room 2 and 3 not heating ..

is is just the fact that swapping from oil in morning to back boiler in evening on a almost daily basis is increasing chances of an air build up?

shane0007

No, you most likely have a leak. The up & over pipes in the attic are emptying & getting air-locked hence why you are feeling heat some of the way. The leak could be anywhere underneath your ground floor. Could also be a leaking air vent, or many other things.
Another check is how high is the water level in the small tank above the attic floor pipes. This is critical in relation to the head of the circulating pump and could also be a factor on pump start up. Most circulating pumps are either 5m or 6m head so you must have 1/3 of this between the water level & the highest part of the circulating part of the system, i.e. 1.33m or 2.0m respectively. If not, it can empty the vent pipe pulling air in on pump start up briefly.

QBE

Eileen36 wrote: »

System has been updated -all pipes are in attic so any leak up there would be seen through ceiling and we recently insulated most of house and no leaks visible.

We seem to have some rads deciding not to work when we go from oil heating in morning to back boiler in the evening.. so all could work at 9am..but when we go to back boiler at 6pm then one room could decide not to heat..

2 days ago overflow pipe went off as temp on back boiler was too high ( accident) and now two bedroom rads not heating..
I have been to attic and the pipes leading to them is hot and half way along pipe it goes stone cold..
have bleed all 3 rads on this side-so room 1 working great, but room 2 and 3 not heating ..

is is just the fact that swapping from oil in morning to back boiler in evening on a almost daily basis is increasing chances of an air build up?

Well if the whole system was re piped. I just surmise the heating was pressure tested aswell by the contractor. So it could be pitching or some error made in installation. like a badly positioned pump. You still need to have that assessed by a qualified experienced tradesman.

Eileen36

Thanks Shane

I will do the water level test tomorrow..we are not going to put the oil on til plumber gets here-we do need to turn boiler on to get back boiler water circulating so on Sunday I will check the water level to see if we do have a leak..

the main frame of the house is a few hundred yrs old so the walls are very very thick and yes there could be a leak down one of the walls that we cant see..

We are hoping to get it all upgraded and checked when we have the funds ..but for now if there is a leak isnt there a solution you can out into the system to seal up any tiny hole we may find?

thanks for all the help..

Eileen36

QBE..we got a different plumber in last yr to reconnect back boiler ( different one from whom relations called to do everything including update heating etc )...and he told me there were pipes up in attic going nowhere and coming from no where-insulating we removed 3 ourselves so we do know there is a little work to be done as we do not trust the professional the relations had in..when our lad comes in to sort leak next week ( I hope) I will get him to have a look on what can be done to stop the rads deciding not to work ..

right now we have pump for heating, pump for stove, pump for shower, pump for back boiler and then an additional pump for heating which was placed on a pipe so we have to turn on the oil heating knob ( no heating just turned to minimum place) to get back boiler water to get into system!..I would upload photos but you lads may have a few swear words to say! I do..

shane0007

If you are not going to turn on the oil side for now, then turn off the oil at the oil tank. Just remember to turn it back on before turning on the Rayburn.
The solid fuel back boiler should work independently & it's circulating pump should be worked from a pipe stat on the side. Just make sure there is water in the back boiler side of pipework before lighting. If you are unsure & certain you wish to light a fire, start with a very small fire & listen for boiling noise in the pipework. If you hear any, extinguish the fire immediately.

QBE

Eileen36 wrote: »

QBE..we got a different plumber in last yr to reconnect back boiler ( different one from whom relations called to do everything including update heating etc )...and he told me there were pipes up in attic going nowhere and coming from no where-insulating we removed 3 ourselves so we do know there is a little work to be done as we do not trust the professional the relations had in..when our lad comes in to sort leak next week ( I hope) I will get him to have a look on what can be done to stop the rads deciding not to work ..

right now we have pump for heating, pump for stove, pump for shower, pump for back boiler and then an additional pump for heating which was placed on a pipe so we have to turn on the oil heating knob ( no heating just turned to minimum place) to get back boiler water to get into system!..I would upload photos but you lads may have a few swear words to say! I do..

just a word of advice. When you remove the rayburn. Have the heating system pressure tested at the time and the system sealed (add the relevant chemicals to the system) and have a good service on the oil boiler burner by an oftec trained person preferably.

There after have the boiler and burner serviced each year (by an oftec trained tech) and you will save thousands and have a hazel free heating system.

obviously if funds are not an issue you can add a condensing boiler, zones and stats ect. But what I mentioned would be the cheapest overhaul. You should be left with only 1 pump and the main control timer and a filling valve would be the only bit of relevance to you other than the reset button on the boiler/burner.

Eileen36

Shane..we have to put on oil heating knob to get back boiler circulating..

ok next to fire place our lad put in a pump..but in hotpress ( directly behind is all the pipework)

Pipe from fire goes to pipe from oil heating and then to water tank..on THIS pipe is a white box ( extra pump) and this only is on when the temp knob on heating is turn to on-it doesnt mean any oil is being used -it just turns this pump on...and..then back boiler water goes round! Took us a few days to figure this out...

Not sure how turning off oil supply with affect this as if temp on back boiler drops and then in water tank - then oil heating kicks in and dont want that boiler running and no oil being supplied..

thankfully it is warm so kids will not be too bad in the morning -I hope..

thanks for advice..

I am hoping to get rid of stove and move pumps in a way we can use back boiler without having to put on oil heating switch as well..it is a very odd system win hot press alone!

shane0007

It sounds like a very odd system indeed. Fun & games trying to sort it out for some poor installer too!
There is a new system coming to market in the next few months that you can easily combine solid fuel & pressurised systems. If the leak was sorted, it maybe a useful tool for you when it comes time to upgrade your system. I fitted one a couple of weeks ago to a problem system & it has worked a dream since.

Eileen36

here are photos so you know

Pipe from back boiler connects to oil heating pipe on the right of the white pump so if that pump is not on back boiler water will not go through..

so heating knob has to be turned on somewhat to turn the white pump on

( top green pump for stove, bottom green pump for heating)

QBE

Eileen36 wrote: »

here are photos so you know

Pipe from back boiler connects to oil heating pipe on the right of the white pump so if that pump is not on back boiler water will not go through..

so heating knob has to be turned on somewhat to turn the white pump on

( top green pump for stove, bottom green pump for heating)

the white pump as you call it is a motorized vale that is isolating I would guess the heating system and hot water. Ill have an other look in a while. kids crying in bed

shane0007

TBH that is extremely dangerous. The white "thingy" is a motorised valve & should not block the circuit of the solid fuel circuit. If there was a failure or a power cut, well it could potentially have serious issues.
It's best to get it checked over properly. Looking at pictures is not ideal as mis advice can be given when not looking at the whole picture.

Eileen36

yup-it is doing that "isolating I would guess the heating system and hot water. "..-problem is the back boiler pipe is located on the wrong side of it -unless it is on -ie red light on..back boiler water goes no where..

thank you all for the help and advice..me and attic top tank have a date in the morning -cant wait to get into the cobwebs!

Eileen36

Shane-good news is we dont have back boiler pump on unless we are up so all gets turned off at bed time so heating can kick in in am..

I will ask plumber how much to get rid of stove and just have oil boiler and back boiler going and take it from there..

thanks so much for all the advice..the relations did not have back boiler connected so did not have this problem ...they just used oil so we will hope to revamp..I would love to hear about the new system you installed when you have a min

thanks again

QBE

my main concern would be the expansion been obstructed . Because if I am reading the pipework right the pipe before the white motorised valve is going into the top of the cylinder (don't know if expansion continues after that connection) The pipe after the motorised valve that is going up the hot press wall is possibly filling another zone of rads and also used for expansion. The pipe work leaves a lot to be desired. I wouldn't be calling that guy back.

until its checked out and confirmed ok. I wouldn't be isolating zones with that motorised valve and I would have the head disconnect in the mean time to prevent any obstruction.

shane0007

Eileen36 wrote: »

Shane-good news is we dont have back boiler pump on unless we are up so all gets turned off at bed time so heating can kick in in am..

That is one side of the issues. The worrying concern is that mortorized valves frequently fail and when they fail they close. Circulating pumps also fail & this will cause an issue also.
If the installer who fitted the system in that way honestly thought this was an acceptable method, then they do not understand the basic principles of solid fuel installations & therefore what else did they install incorrectly & what else is being blocked by the valve, i.e. open safety vent pipe most importantly.
I will post more detailed information on the new system once I have permission to do so as it is not released to market as yet. I think they are releasing it in August, if not before.

Eileen36

Morning..I have no idea why the motorised valve was put in-
I do know relations asked for back boiler to be disconnected a few years back as they rarely used it and it cut off the stove/heating from working I think-it may have been at this time that the motorised valve was put it-I have no idea.

This has been the set up in the house for a few years at least-we have just added the back boiler back into it since last Oct when we moved in.

We are not in a position to redo the pipework for a while yet as we are doing a big build job on the garage over the summer and then we can see what we can do with the heating..

QBE-yes there are two parts to the house and rads-on left hand side of tank are 2 pipes for living part-bathroom and 3 rooms. In the photos I posted are two pipes going up which service the right hand side of house -which currently is an office-4 rads in there. The rads on this right hand side of the house are generally turned off unless there is a client in.
In general the rad on the right which are more off then on work with no bother when on. It is on the left where we live that seem to airlock.

Thanks again for the advice lads-we will see the prices quoted for getting stove out, boiler in , rad in kitchen and cleaning up pipework and start saving..