Jordan (WoT) vs Goodkind (SoT)

y0ssar1an22

What do you all think?

I read SoT first, but after reading WoT it is apparent TG robbed a whole bunch of ideas from RJ. So many comparisons:

Black Ajay vs Sisters of the Dark

There is no comparison, Goodkind is a crazy person with awful books and awful ranting ripped off. Ripping off Ayn Rand, obsessed with the virginity of the main character, it goes on

ixoy

I don't like Goodkind's work at all. Read the first book and, after the second, couldn't stomach it any more. Found it weak and derivative and too often it felt forced: trying to throw in shock scenes just because he could rather than driven really by the story. Also a tad preachy.

Jordan's work has many flaws and (IMO) is far from the best of the genre but it's certainly a noteworthy piece that will stick with me. Goodkind's work is just a footnote in my mind of works to avoid.

Nody

Goodkind did not take 9/11 well and you can notice that in his later books. I liked his first books, they had a new take on the fantasy world rather then the generic version Jordan wrote about but were as they were preachy before (of Capitalism as the "Right Way" and "American Freedom") they became a spouting spitting mad mans vision of why the "terrorists" will not win after 9/11. I only finished the last three or four books out of dedicating to the series and wanting to close the loop on the story (the story ending is not good to say the least and the writing makes it a drag to get through).

Zapp Brannigan

Started the Sword of Truth, thought it was alright. Gave up on the second book, as it was like he just carbon copied Wheel of Time. also the relationship between the main protagonists was just pathetic.

Antar Bolaeisk

Nody wrote: »

Goodkind did not take 9/11 well and you can notice that in his later books. I liked his first books, they had a new take on the fantasy world rather then the generic version Jordan wrote about

Conversely I thought it was a poor imitation of The Wheel of Time, only read to book two and gave up.

Queen-Mise

I finished the Goodkind books whereas I didn't finish the Jordan ones.

I liked parts of the TG ones, and I did think at the beginning that they ripped off RJ, but RJ got dragged down in his own bullsh*t, I gave up on the RJ ones at the point, where I read a 700 odd page book and the story moved forward three weeks:eek::mad:
Whereas the TG ones evolved into their own story, that was ok.

Although TG gets very, very preachy, and expounding on his own political views. But generally I just ignore all that claptrap & read them for the story. Parts of it were ok, even good.
Although the grande ending was odd (crap even), but then I think TG let the ideas run away on him, and let the story-line in the books become too big, so the ending was always going to be forced.

Although I have put the RJ ones on my Kindle, so am intending on starting them again and maybe finish them. Although I will be cursing everyone online, if I find them unreadable again - I am only attempting them again because people on here & elsewhere saying they are worth reading.
They were a couple of things that really annoyed me the first time, so will be interesting to see if they still do.

matrim

It's been a while but I think I made it thorough the first 3 SoT books before giving up. They were ok but I thought they got very repeititive.

The WoT has flaws but is still one my favourite fantasy series, partly because it was one of the first fantasy that I read way back when I was about 13 and partly because overally it's still a good read. As ixoy said it's not the best fantasy series ever but if you're a fan of fantasy it's worth reading.

Nody

matrim wrote: »

It's been a while but I think I made it thorough the first 3 SoT books before giving up. They were ok but I thought they got very repeititive.

The WoT has flaws but is still one my favourite fantasy series, partly because it was one of the first fantasy that I read way back when I was about 13 and partly because overally it's still a good read. As ixoy said it's not the best fantasy series ever but if you're a fan of fantasy it's worth reading.

Honestly I'm not sure I'd agree with that; seeing the commitment required (and the POS books in the middle) to get through the whole thing of what's generic fantasy I think the time could be better spent. I think WoT in the next decade will fade away as the only people reading it now tend to be the once who started a long while ago and want to finish it. How ever if you've never read it before then there are a lot better books to read (and I fully expect someone to release a summary book of about 600 pages that will capture all major plotlines etc. of the whole series for new readers).

Regarding ripping off Jordan; seeing how Jordan was busy ripping stuff from other books (Everything Aiel = Fremen from Dune etc.) I don't really bother with who's ripping off who in fantasy today.

keane2097

matrim wrote: »

It's been a while but I think I made it thorough the first 3 SoT books before giving up. They were ok but I thought they got very repeititive.

The WoT has flaws but is still one my favourite fantasy series, partly because it was one of the first fantasy that I read way back when I was about 13 and partly because overally it's still a good read. As ixoy said it's not the best fantasy series ever but if you're a fan of fantasy it's worth reading.

I read the Goodkind books when I was young and enjoyed them, still remember them as being good, whereas I read WoT more recently and think it's beyond awful. Everybody always likes the series they read before they read anything else, but I don't think there's probably a whole lot between these two series in terms of quality objectively.

AnCapaillMor

Goodkind was one of my first forays into fantasy, at the time i enjoyed them to an extent, liked some books, would've rarther forgotten about others. But after reading other series, namely WOT, i can't believe how crap the seeker books were. WOT may have some pretty bland generic characters and a lot of waffle but the history\backstory and central plot is beyond epic.

Trojan

In fairness to Goodkind, there was a distinct lack of braid-tugging.

nesf

Is it ok if I quite dislike both of them?

OwaynOTT

Trojan wrote: »

In fairness to Goodkind, there was a distinct lack of braid-tugging.

but far more chickens that are not chickens

Trojan

OwaynOTT wrote: »

but far more chickens that are not chickens

Thanks for chiming in with those words of wisdom...

If there's one story arc that I really, really hate in Goodkind

OwaynOTT

Bags!

iPink

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Bags!

I read the Sot just before wot & wished I hadn't bothered with sot at all tbh... While wot is far from perfect it is the ocean in depth compared to the moralistic bs that is sot... I read them (sot) all just because I finish things I start dammit & wanted to see what happened but that's time I'll never get back...!!
I was happy to get to the end of sot... like phew compared to feeling lost and sad at the end of wot (which I only finished a few days ago!!!)

iPink

OwaynOTT wrote: »

Bags!

Zak (?) Was actually my favorite character & the only one I actually missed!! )

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Manach

nesf wrote: »

Is it ok if I quite dislike both of them?

ditto.

Sleepy

I'm on the second last book of WOT at the moment and for all it's (many) flaws, I find it has a certain charm.

In movie terms it's akin to Star Wars or the Marvel universe: you know that some of the writing is dog****; you know it's heavily derivative; you know that "good" will ultimately triumph; you find some of the characters utterly pointless/annoying and yet, you still enjoy it. There's a naieve charm to it, parts of the story just rocket along brimming over with action and excitement. While it's very, very big it's not very clever. And sometimes that's what you want.

y0ssar1an22

I wish Legend of the Seeker was actually a big-budget TV series, like GOT. That follows the book pretty much perfectly. LOTS could have been awesome.

CuAnnan

Jordan's work was far from perfect.
He had a tendency to ramble and then there was the whole book where the two pertinent plot points were spoilers: "Elaine has a bath, Egwene gets hit on the head" (yes, I know exactly what the rest of that book was, but it could have been done more articulately and coherently in a few lines).
The cosmology was a little weak.
Asserting that men and women are magically different was a bit much, but he managed at least to subvert the damsel in distress trope repeatedly with Elaine and Nynaeve and Avhienda being utter badasses and Perrin being a bit crap really except when his wife was around (Perrin being my favourite character).

THAT SAID.
I have read six or seven of the Sword of Truth books.
And every literary criticism that can be levelled at Jordan can be levelled at Goodkind in spades.
And Jordan's work is mostly politically neutral.

The first six SoT books are passable toilet reading.
They won't engross you.
You won't need to read the next book.
You will forget that you read them at all until you pop by some thread on the internet that reminds you they existed at all in the first place.

beauf

I'm on book 11 wot and there's way too much padding in it. The later books would have much improved if someone had forced him to shink them to half their size. Cut out all fluff. Based on the comments here I don't think I could face getting into SoT.

CuAnnan

beauf wrote: »

I'm on book 11 wot and there's way too much padding in it. The later books would have much improved if someone had forced him to shink them to half their size. Cut out all fluff.

Oddly enough, I think that's exactly what Sanderson did.
Sanderson has pacing issues, something he still suffers from in tSLA, but he picked the pace up right fast after Jordan.