Farm transfer- do I need green cert?

popsynesbitt

Hello All,
I am taking over the family farm from my father as he is retiring ASAP. I am 25 so liable for stamp duty of 1%. Our farm is small with mixed quality land, 50 acres value circa 200,000 euro. Basically should I bother doing the green cert or should I just pay the 2k stamp duty as that is less than the green cert course fee. Is there something I'm missing or is it a no brainier to just pay stamp and not have the hassle of doing green cert? Also how long are you looking at for a farm trabsfer to be complete?
Many thanks.

matTNT

From what I've heard the green cert isn't worth the paper it's written on, at least when my dad did it.

Part time ag science or business diploma/degree would suit you better. I know a few farmers who have farmed and studied at the same time.

popsynesbitt

matTNT wrote: »

From what I've heard the green cert isn't worth the paper it's written on, at least when my dad did it.

Part time ag science or business diploma/degree would suit you better. I know a few farmers who have farmed and studied at the same time.

Thanks for reply matTNT. To be honest I've spent enough time and money on my education and was wondering if I could just pay stamp duty altogether and forget about the agricultural training? I appreciate that the green cert could be useful but I've heard it's generally fairly pointless and it's expensive so don't feel like being a mug.

yellow50HX

i could be wrong but to be count as a "Farmer" for tax, grant and other offical documents i think you need to have a farming qulaification. For those of us who went to college or did an apprenticeship it was teh additonal 180hr course on top of our other qulaifications. For those that didnt is was the farming cert.

now i could be wrong but i think you might need to complete some kind of course in time to be demmed as a fully qualified farmer

DieselPowered

yellow50HX wrote: »

i could be wrong but to be count as a "Farmer" for tax, grant and other offical documents i think you need to have a farming qulaification. For those of us who went to college or did an apprenticeship it was teh additonal 180hr course on top of our other qulaifications. For those that didnt is was the farming cert.

now i could be wrong but i think you might need to complete some kind of course in time to be demmed as a fully qualified farmer

My understanding is that if the farm is fully in your name (as here in the original posters notes) you will be able to start farming straight away as a fully qualified farmer, otherwise starting out (where you would be renting land) you would need farming qualifications ie Green cert etc.


Thanks

satstheway

Young trained farmers under 35 with cert "trained" qualify for grants and things.

Dunedin

satstheway wrote: »

Young trained farmers under 35 with cert "trained" qualify for grants and things.

not too many grants going these days........... :D

rocky bilboa

you could pay the stamp duty now and not bother with the 180hrs/green cert but l can guarantee you that at some stage in the future a scheme will be announced of which you'll be exempt and you will regret not having it done. There used to be an facility to complete the greencert online you should ask your local teagasc advisor if it still exists

lakill Farm

have a client in a similar case currently.

Transferring 40 acres with value approx €360,000. Stamp duty €3,600.
I advised him to do the green cert, its 18 months part time online now for over €2,200. However he will get the 1% stamp duty refunded once he applies for the refund within 6months of qualifying from a aprroved course.

You dont need to have green cert to register for to be a taxable farmer. :cool:. No green cert here , athought OH is thinking of doing it.

popsynesbitt

lakill Farm wrote: »

have a client in a similar case currently.

Transferring 40 acres with value approx €360,000. Stamp duty €3,600.
I advised him to do the green cert, its 18 months part time online now for over €2,200. However he will get the 1% stamp duty refunded once he applies for the refund within 6months of qualifying from a aprroved course.

You dont need to have green cert to register for to be a taxable farmer. :cool:. No green cert here , athought OH is thinking of doing it.

Thanks for all the replies. I suppose my main thing is that I work and have young family and doing a green cert would be a big undertaking at the minute. But I do want to get transfer sorted as soon as I can. I think I'd pay stamp duty now and try getting refunded when I do get green cert done in future. Can you definitely get refund of stamp duty after doing green cert before 35 years of age?
Does not having green cert affect sfp or other payments if farm is put in my name from my father- ie do I just automatically become entitled to all this when farm is in my name?

nashmach

Make sure your father also transfers the entitlements for SFP to you as these are individual based.

I would be wary of delaying something in case rules changed.

Also the online applications have opened in the past week or so, so opportune to look into that.

freedominacup

As long as the courses you have completed already are above HETAC level 6 all you need to get a green cert is the 180 hour management course. Look form SD2B online from the revenue to get exact details. I'd agree with the lads who said if you don't have it some scheme will come up in the future where you'll regret not having it.

popsynesbitt

freedominacup wrote: »

As long as the courses you have completed already are above HETAC level 6 all you need to get a green cert is the 180 hour management course. Look form SD2B online from the revenue to get exact details. I'd agree with the lads who said if you don't have it some scheme will come up in the future where you'll regret not having it.

Well I think I will do it eventually. Maybe start it next year. Have an awful lot on the plate these days so would love to put it on long finger if possible. Do any lads know about paying the stamp, is it upfront or installments or what? I'm sure a couple of solicitors will need a few quid aswell.

hould on hey

I know a few lads that Did. 24 hour course in ballyhaise 2 years ago for stamp duty, I'm currently doing The green cert (joke) level 6 is stamp duty

ABlur

Stamp duty has to be paid within a month from date of deed of transfer. Your solicitor pays that electronically. Land registry will need paying to register transfer their fees are on their website. Two solicitors are required and as you will probably be paying both sets of fees make sure you shop around. Good luck!

popsynesbitt

ABlur wrote: »

Stamp duty has to be paid within a month from date of deed of transfer. Your solicitor pays that electronically. Land registry will need paying to register transfer their fees are on their website. Two solicitors are required and as you will probably be paying both sets of fees make sure you shop around. Good luck!

Thanks aBlur that's very helpful. Hopefully I can speak to our teagasc advisor in the coming days and see what he thinks. My main thing is getting it done quickly with as little stress as possible. I know some people get lucky and get it done without much hassle but ive heard of it getting dragged on for years.
Thanks everyone. Anymore advice accepted with thanks!

cuculainn

ABlur wrote: »

Stamp duty has to be paid within a month from date of deed of transfer. Your solicitor pays that electronically. Land registry will need paying to register transfer their fees are on their website. Two solicitors are required and as you will probably be paying both sets of fees make sure you shop around. Good luck!

Why two solicitors?

cuculainn

cuculainn wrote: »

Why two solicitors?

You can't have one solicitor acting for both sides of a transaction any more it seems.

ABlur

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You can't have one solicitor acting for both sides of a transaction any more it seems.

Thats it, there was a downturn in conveyancing business after the celtic tiger that necessitated this important change!

hould on hey

You don't necessaraly have To use solicitors And Your probably better off if you don't , they Will hold Up The transfer for aslong as possible , they Will think The land is theirs And then double charge for simply stamping a form And posting it.

whelan1

ABlur wrote: »

Thats it, there was a downturn in conveyancing business after the celtic tiger that necessitated this important change!

actually its a good idea to have the 2 differnt solicitors, means that htere is a different perspective looking at the deal.... worked well for me

Chriswaddle

hould on hey wrote: »

You don't necessaraly have To use solicitors And Your probably better off if you don't , they Will hold Up The transfer for aslong as possible , they Will think The land is theirs And then double charge for simply stamping a form And posting it.

Really? How can you avoid using them? I'd love to skip using a solicitor, I once got billed 30euro for phoning a solicitor and getting him to confirm something over the phone.

delaval

Chriswaddle wrote: »

Really? How can you avoid using them? I'd love to skip using a solicitor, I once got billed 30euro for phoning a solicitor and getting him to confirm something over the phone.

Change you solicitor. I wouldn't dream of a transfer without a solicitor as if there is a problem with the title or anything else your screwed

Mo60

Deleted User wrote: »

You can't have one solicitor acting for both sides of a transaction any more it seems.

This is correct, in the old days one solicitor could act for both parties.Not any more due to conflict of interest.

I am speaking from experience - had greedy relatives come along after twenty years trying to claim land that had been transferred. Claimed one of the parties had not been given proper advice due to the use of one solicitor for both parties in the transfer.

Happy to say all they got was a solicitors bill for their greed.

crackcrack30

Done the greencert back in 2004/5 in pallaskenry, i'm afraid i,m well past 35 now with no land transfered.......is the greencert useless to me now re stamp duty?

.......dont think i ever got a paper cert, or i may have just "filed it"... will they post u out another if contacted?

hould on hey

[QUOTE=wrong post

hould on hey

Chriswaddle wrote: »

Really? How can you avoid using them? I'd love to skip using a solicitor, I once got billed 30euro for phoning a solicitor and getting him to confirm something over the phone.

I would have said wrong number And hung Up

One pointless profession that's waffle I hate it , solicitors barristers And similar artists ,it so boring meaningless pointless And chargng for using Your mouth .

liamnoel

I may be taking over my dads small farm.. I am over 40.. Will I need green cert.. I only help out on farm.. Any advice would be grateful

tippgal84

This will sound odd. I help out on my uncles farm but he won't allow me use his for the cert. I guess he doesn't want me to have accounts access. Any ideas on where I can find a farm to let me use for the application?

Who2

tippgal84 wrote: »

This will sound odd. I help out on my uncles farm but he won't allow me use his for the cert. I guess he doesn't want me to have accounts access. Any ideas on where I can find a farm to let me use for the application?

For the accounts, just make them up, that's how most done it in my class. There's only two of us that had genuine accounts.

tippgal84

But I need a herd number etc also. Thanks for the comment though. Helps alot.

Who2

tippgal84 wrote: »

But I need a herd number etc also. Thanks for the comment though. Helps alot.

The same as above most just gave any number. Use your uncles keep reasonable records and away you go.

tippgal84

Ha ok thanks. I need to grow a thicker skin if I'm going to survive in farming I think. 😋cheers for the help

Clarelassie

liamnoel wrote: »

I may be taking over my dads small farm.. I am over 40.. Will I need green cert.. I only help out on farm.. Any advice would be grateful

I am in the same situation - any advice on whether to do the green cert would be great. Thanks!

lakill Farm

Clarelassie wrote: »

I am in the same situation - any advice on whether to do the green cert would be great. Thanks!

you don't give enough information, but probably a waste of time if over 40.

Clarelassie

Thanks for reply - hope below is enough detail.

I am a daughter about to receive about 40 acres of land and outbuildings and some stock (15 bullocks) from my father. Dividing farm with my brother getting similar amount.

Currently he is in glas and bps - will I still be eligible for those if I take over the farm without a green cert? Teagasc want me to do a 20month course (Teagasc Distance Education Green Cert as I have a degree from UL in '90's) at cost of €2750 but I don't know what benefits it will get me?

I work part-time in my own business (sole trader) and work part time on the farm (inbetween school runs, kids activities etc...)

L1985

Clarelassie wrote: »

Thanks for reply - hope below is enough detail.

I am a daughter about to receive about 40 acres of land and outbuildings and some stock (15 bullocks) from my father. Dividing farm with my brother getting similar amount.

Currently he is in glas and bps - will I still be eligible for those if I take over the farm without a green cert? Teagasc want me to do a 20month course (Teagasc Distance Education Green Cert as I have a degree from UL in '90's) at cost of €2750 but I don't know what benefits it will get me?

I work part-time in my own business (sole trader) and work part time on the farm (inbetween school runs, kids activities etc...)

Clarelassie Are you under 40 as that will make a difference if it's worth it or not. You will get the stamp duty exemption if your under 40 but you should still get consanguinity relief at 1% if you are over 40. Also a lot of grants etc is that you get more being a "qualified" farmer.

mayota

L1985 wrote: »

Clarelassie Are you under 40 as that will make a difference if it's worth it or not. You will get the stamp duty exemption if your under 40 but you should still get consanguinity relief at 1% if you are over 40. Also a lot of grants etc is that you get more being a "qualified" farmer.

Is the cut off for stamp duty relief not 35 years?