Leave For Interns...

Boethius

Slightly pessimistic about the replies I'll get on this but just curious as to how easy it is to take leave while working as an intern and how much leave it's possible to take at a time?

I understand that there's an element of providing your own cover, but I presume that's not the only factor? Any feedback would be appreciated.

his_dudeness

There are 16 days of annual leave per six months, how they're taken depends on how you're rostered. And always at the discretion of the supervising consultant such that service is minimally impacted. It is usually preferred by teams that members take a whole week at a time as its less disruptive than popping out for days here and there.

There are 18 days of study leave, for courses, exams, etc that interns can also avail of, but this again at the discretion of the supervising consultant, and I have heard anecdotally of certain intern networks recommending that interns do not be given study leave off for membership exams ( on the basis that membership exams should be left until the SHO years; perhaps someone in the South network can correct me).

You are also entitled to interview leave of one or two days per six months, I can't remember which.

And you're also entitled to a range of other leaves including parental leave, paternal/maternal leave, trade union leave, essentially any leave that anyone else in the public sector is allowed.

Ultimately, all leave will have to be approved by your consultant and a certain responsibility will be put on you to ensure that there is continuity of care and service. There are usually unofficial ( although sometimes official ) arrangements between teams for cross cover when team members are away.

Boethius

Thanks, that's better news than I was expecting. I had a good idea of the amount of time but wasn't sure how accommodating some of the teams would be. I presume there's a minimum amount of notice that needs to be given too?

Breezer

Boethius wrote: »

I understand that there's an element of providing your own cover

You are under absolutely no obligation to provide your own cover. This is explicitly stated in your contract. But in practice, as has been mentioned, your leave must be approved by your consultant, and it can be difficult as the most junior member of a team to dig your heels in, same as anywhere else. You'll have to be a bit flexible with your team but under no circumstances let Medical Manpower give you the run around - you do NOT get rostered for call during your leave once it's been approved, if you do THEY fix it not you, etc.

ThatDrGuy

Sure you can take leave whenever you want. Provided another member of your team isnt away. Or the team isnt on take
that week. And no-ones sick. And no one is doing exams or interviews. And its not crazy busy. And you have found someone to do your calls. Its easier than it used to be in my day (post call ay off makes call swapping less of a nightmare) but still a pain in the backside to arrange with the real risk you might have to cancel holiday at last minute hanging over you.

Breezer

ThatDrGuy wrote: »

the real risk you might have to cancel holiday at last minute hanging over you.

This is only a risk if you let it be. If your team has OK'd your leave in advance then you take your leave. If the worst comes to the worst the hospital gets a locum to cover. If manpower puts the pressure on and colleagues decide to hop to it instead of insisting on locum cover, bigger fools them. The only reason we've had to put up with this crap for so long is because we HAVE been putting up with it.

locum-motion

ThatDrGuy wrote: »

... you might have to cancel holiday at last minute hanging over you.

Have to say; this attitude really surprises me.
OK, I know I'm not a Dr., but surely the following applies, doesn't it?

Everybody, in any job, Dr. or otherwise, has a manager/supervisor/boss of some description (unless they own their own company)
Employee wants to take holidays, says: "Hi, boss. May I take holidays from Monday the Whateverth of Whenever until Friday the Whateverth of Whenever?"
Employer checks rota/schedule/whatever, and says: "Yes, that's fine."

Now, let's say that on the Friday before the employee flies to Timbuktu, the boss says: "Oh sorry, I forgot to arrange for others to cover for you while you're away. You can't go on holidays."

Employee says: "I'm sorry for your trouble, but that's not my problem. I'll be sipping Mai Tais beside the pool while you try to sort it out."




Seriously, if the above employee's response is NOT acceptable in your job, then you really need to rethink your career choice.

take everything

locum-motion wrote: »

Have to say; this attitude really surprises me.
OK, I know I'm not a Dr., but surely the following applies, doesn't it?

Everybody, in any job, Dr. or otherwise, has a manager/supervisor/boss of some description (unless they own their own company)
Employee wants to take holidays, says: "Hi, boss. May I take holidays from Monday the Whateverth of Whenever until Friday the Whateverth of Whenever?"
Employer checks rota/schedule/whatever, and says: "Yes, that's fine."

Now, let's say that on the Friday before the employee flies to Timbuktu, the boss says: "Oh sorry, I forgot to arrange for others to cover for you while you're away. You can't go on holidays."

Employee says: "I'm sorry for your trouble, but that's not my problem. I'll be sipping Mai Tais beside the pool while you try to sort it out."




Seriously, if the above employee's response is NOT acceptable in your job, then you really need to rethink your career choice.

I haven't had an issue with holidays thankfully but this kind of bullying goes on. I have repeatedly gone in to HR about discrepancies in my pay over the past 6 mths and it's a new excuse every time. Bullying basically. I don't know how much I'm owed at this stage.
So this does go on.
You start to wonder what else they'll try to get away with.

ThatDrGuy

Boss is consultant. consultant in most cases wants team as full as possible so he can waaay over book clinics. he also needs spr around to treat his patients while he swans off to private clinic. People get sick, there is no cover. People find out last minute they have exams, no cover. People relatives get sick, no cover. Intern largely replaceable, spr is up **** creek as totally dependent on boss to get signed off so boss can do what he likes. holidays get cancelled all the time. most companies dont have skeletal levels of staff they work 80 hours a week ( cause its illegal ) when everyone is madly over worked and you factor illegal shifts into the mix to try and get out of it can often be more work trying to take a holiday then its worth.

RobFowl

In all but one of my junior doc jobs I had little trouble getting my hols. Had to be flexible and take what was on offer but got hem.

One SHO job however the boss was a complete dick. Made getting holidays almost impossible, once took a week and was put on 7 nights before and after so despite being "off" mon to Sun worked til 0900 on the monday and was back in 2100 on the following sunday. Was also made to swap shifts to cover any other time i wanted.
The response when queried was do you want the experience signed off or not.... (needed to be signed off as sucessfully completing the 6/12 in order fo it to count towards my training).
Lived to tell the tale but never forgave the consultant in question.

locum-motion

RobFowl wrote: »

...Lived to tell the tale but never forgave the consultant in question.

Now you're a GP, right?
Bet you never refer any patients to that particular consultant, do you?:D

RobFowl

locum-motion wrote: »

Now you're a GP, right?
Bet you never refer any patients to that particular consultant, do you?:D

You bet, nor the one who made students carry his coat on ward rounds !

locum-motion

RobFowl wrote: »

You bet, nor the one who made students carry his coat on ward rounds !

What goes around, comes around.

Or, to put it another way...


Karma's a bitch. She has a way of circling 'round behind you and biting you in the arse!

pc11

Wow, as a prospective GEM, and being a bit older and experienced in the workplace, I would probably have difficulty taking that sh*te. I tend to be rather sensitive to injustice.

I may need some tongue sutures...

ThatDrGuy

RobFowl wrote: »

You bet, nor the one who made students carry his coat on ward rounds !

I must have reffered over a hundred patients (public ) to the ENT consultant that shouted at me when I was a med student. I never miss a chance to increase his workload.

jumpguy

ThatDrGuy wrote: »

I must have reffered over a hundred patients (public ) to the ENT consultant that shouted at me when I was a med student. I never miss a chance to increase his workload.

Would you not be subjecting your patients to an obviously díckhead consultant, though?

Double decker

jumpguy wrote: »

Would you not be subjecting your patients to an obviously díckhead consultant, though?

by in large consultants who are dicks to students / juniors tend to fairly innocuous to patients