Rent going up - advice/thoughts?

dendof

Have been in our 3 bed apartment since December 2011. It had originally been advertised at 1200 a month, but had been on daft for a while and I managed to negotiate to pay 1050 a month.
The letting agent called last night for 'an inspection' and dropped bombshell that landlord wanted to increase rent to 1200 'in line with market rent'. Now, the apartment is in a good area, decent size and suits the 3 of us for work/socially. We have been very good tenants, always paid on time, no hassle etc. I can understand that landlord might want to increase rent but if they look honestly at other apartments that go for 1200, they would see that they are finished to a higher standard. One room, had no blinds so I put up cut and measure ones that just stick to window, quick €50 job, and can be peeled off with no damage. Bathroom was bog standard white tile, sink, urinal. I changed toilet seat to a nicer wooden one, €20. Simple things but made the place nicer. Fridge has tape holding handle on door, and a cracked bottom tray. Cooker is old style hob, with burned on marks on the enamel. Dodgy hoover and one of lads wants new mattress, a lick of paint would do wonders. Small things but when you compare to other places at 1200, they would be of a much higher standard. Maybe he's just chancing his arm to see if he'll get the 1200. But she said he'll want some increase at least and she'll emphasise that we are good tenants. She's only doing her job I suppose but will still get her cut, not sure do letting agencies get a commission of rent or a set annual fee?
To be honest, I might stretch another bit to keep the comfort of where it is but don't want to be held to ransom. I'm sure we'll negotiate but there is a list of niggly things that would really need doing if rent increased. My question is, can we demand that apartment is brought up to higher standard? We're probably too soft to a fault, I don't mind ringing about hot water/leak etc. But not if a bulb/battery goes I replace it or things like bin not opening when you step on pedal the same. Maybe I should but I don't see the point, we all have her number so if it's such an inconvenience for other lads, maybe they should ring. Anyways that's more to do with in-house stuff..
Also we signed a 6 month lease December 2011, and haven't signed one since. We just pay money into account monthly as normal. Does this make a difference in anything?

djimi

Market rental rate means the rate at which a new tenant would pay for the property were it to go on the market now. If you think that the landlord would get €1200 or close to it (bearing in mind that a lot of areas of Dublin have pretty high rental demand right now) then Im afraid there isnt really much that you can do about it.

If we wish to challenge the raise then you are free to take a case with the PRTB. The rent will be frozen at the current rate until the case is heard, but should you lose you will be liable to pay back rent from the time the notice was issued. To be honest, it would be pretty touch and go whether you would win with this; you would need to be able to prove pretty conclusively that €1200 is well above the price that this property would rent for.

One thing that might go in your favour is the manner in which the notice was given regarding the rent increase. Notice must be given in writing, no less than 28 days before the proposed increase. If this has not happened then the notice is not valid. If I were you I would not be informing the agent/landlord of this fact; if they want to enforce a rent increase then its up to them to figure out how to do it property.

dendof

They're doing it by the book alright. She said she was just verbally telling as and a letter would follow and would be at least a month before change would come into effect so that's fair enough.

by the seaside

Moving is a hassle but...

From what you say, why don't you make a counter-offer and then if they don't accept move to a nicer place for 1200 per month?

gaius c

djimi wrote: »

Market rental rate means the rate at which a new tenant would pay for the property were it to go on the market now. If you think that the landlord would get €1200 or close to it (bearing in mind that a lot of areas of Dublin have pretty high rental demand right now) then Im afraid there isnt really much that you can do about it.

If we wish to challenge the raise then you are free to take a case with the PRTB. The rent will be frozen at the current rate until the case is heard, but should you lose you will be liable to pay back rent from the time the notice was issued. To be honest, it would be pretty touch and go whether you would win with this; you would need to be able to prove pretty conclusively that €1200 is well above the price that this property would rent for.

One thing that might go in your favour is the manner in which the notice was given regarding the rent increase. Notice must be given in writing, no less than 28 days before the proposed increase. If this has not happened then the notice is not valid. If I were you I would not be informing the agent/landlord of this fact; if they want to enforce a rent increase then its up to them to figure out how to do it property.

I don't think that is the case.

D3PO

gaius c wrote: »

I don't think that is the case.

It 110% is the case.

Think about it. Automatically everybody would dispute a rent increase on the basis feck it I don't care if I lose I will have blagged x number of months extra on the old rate of rent

valleyoftheunos

OP you need to figure out your position, if you decide to move out will you find another apartment for less than the increased rent? Or are other flats at that price range of a much nicer standard? If not, it might not be worth moving.

I'd suggest you try a bit of negotiation, maybe offer to meet the LL halfway and seek some improvements to the flat, new mattress, repairs to the stuff that is broken.

Depending on the market where you are you could be in a strong negotiating position, if he is being hopeful in his valuation he could be a while without tenants and finding new tenants does cost money, he'd also likely have to carry out the repairs before letting it again. All good reasons for him to keep you guys in there by meeting you half way.

dendof

Before we rented in December 2011, it had been advertised and vacant for couple of months at 1200 so he was prob happy to get us for 1050.
Honestly, I feel he could get 1200 if he was to rent it now. I'm sure he would meet us somewhere in between but if we were to insist on repairs/improvements, a good chunk of his extra money 1800 (12*150 extra each month) would be gone so he may be reluctant. It boils down to location location location too. Maybe if he met us halfway and carried out improvements we would all be happy. Not sure we have much bargaining power either. If he can get extra money it mightn't matter at all that we were good/easy tenants, and even spent our own (small bit still our own) money on things rather than him. I'd be keen to stay on there until I buy my own place. I might just ask letting agent to ask him would he sell. Maybe he does actually need the extra money per month to offset his mortgage.

the_syco

Get the stuff fixed BEFORE the rent goes up, and you'll stay, otherwise look for a nicer place for the same or slightly increased rent?

Pawwed Rig

There will always be room for negotiation where there are good tenants. It is alot of hassle if you move out as then the landlord has to source new tenants. To get new tenants the agent will (generally) charge a months rent. To manage the property costs (generally) another months rent per annum. So were you to move it will cost the landlord €1,200 in agents fees plus whatever amount of time the apartment is empty. So this is what you have to negotiate with.

fasttalkerchat

Say that you would be willing to consider a small increase and would sign a new contract on the condition that some work is done and list points. If they way 1150 on a 6 month contract, offer 1100 on 12 months.

ted1

Move or stay,
If you stay make that landlord earn there money and fix everything,

Ray Palmer

I always think it is funny people list paying their rent on time as making them a good tenant. It doesn't it,you are meant to do that.
Adding or changing things in a place that you want there doesn't make you a good tenant either. You spent money on stuff you wanted and can take them with you. Again doesn't make you a good tenant.

The idea of running to the PRTB about any increase as suggested each time a question on rent increases comes up is overboard. Rent can go up it isn't a big case each time. This example seems very reasonable even stated by the OP.

I also think expecting a LL to replace anything with wear and tear such as the cooker and fridge is asking a lot. If you had your own place would you throw out these appliances?

Paint and hoover sounds about the only thing that is reasonable. The mattress might also be valid but I have no idea how new it is.

I am sure people will go on about how wrong I am but before you do actually consider what you would do in your own place if you owned it and consider how reasonable it is to throw out a working appliance over aesthetics.

djimi

If you are referring to my post Ray then I'm not suggesting the OP should take a a case with the PRTB; simply that is an option available to them if they wish to dispute the rent increase (it's the only option available to them if they wish to dispute it) . You're most likely right in this case; in light of the how the OP has explained the situation I'd say they would almost certainly lose a case if they were to take one, but this being an advice forum it's important to give people the facts and their options, and let them make up their own mind which course of action to take.

mitosis

OP, given that you agree the LL is being fair and reasonable in requesting an increase, you realistically have two options. The first is give notice to vacate, the other, more sensible one, make a counter offer, meet in the middle.

murphaph

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There will always be room for negotiation where there are good tenants. It is alot of hassle if you move out as then the landlord has to source new tenants. To get new tenants the agent will (generally) charge a months rent. To manage the property costs (generally) another months rent per annum. So were you to move it will cost the landlord €1,200 in agents fees plus whatever amount of time the apartment is empty. So this is what you have to negotiate with.

The LL may not use the agent to find a new tenant and in Dublin these days his flat will likely be empty for no more than 24 hours (good location etc.). The LL could re-let this place with just his time in costs (for the viewing and checking the references) theoretically.

Anyway, the thing they have going for them the most is that they have been (we assume) good tenants. If the LL is not a complete amateur he'll know there is an intrinsic value in that. The OP will be paying more rent however, it's just a question of how much more.

cson

Given the state of the market I'd be inclined to go with the increase but have the apartment refurbed to a decent degree as your leverage - anything thats borderline replacement ready try and have it replaced.

PhilMcGee

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

There will always be room for negotiation where there are good tenants. It is alot of hassle if you move out as then the landlord has to source new tenants. To get new tenants the agent will (generally) charge a months rent. To manage the property costs (generally) another months rent per annum. So were you to move it will cost the landlord €1,200 in agents fees plus whatever amount of time the apartment is empty. So this is what you have to negotiate with.

Agents are much cheaper than that nowadays. Its no longer 2007.
You can get agents to get tenants and run the property for the whole year for have that.

Pawwed Rig

murphaph wrote: »

The LL may not use the agent to find a new tenant and in Dublin these days his flat will likely be empty for no more than 24 hours (good location etc.).

He is using the agent at the moment for inspections and communication with the tenant which shows he is either unwilling or unable to do it himself. Fair point about apartments in Dublin moving quickly yet when I was looking last summer most were through agents.

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Agents are much cheaper than that nowadays. Its no longer 2007.
You can get agents to get tenants and run the property for the whole year for have that.

Fair enough. I have no idea what they get paid but there will be a payment involved. It should be noted that other threads on this forum are critical of the quality of agents so maybe cheaper isn't always better.

PhilMcGee

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

He is using the agent at the moment for inspections and communication with the tenant which shows he is either unwilling or unable to do it himself. Fair point about apartments in Dublin moving quickly yet when I was looking last summer most were through agents.


Fair enough. I have no idea what they get paid but there will be a payment involved. It should be noted that other threads on this forum are critical of the quality of agents so maybe cheaper isn't always better.

Any agent charging more than about 8% max now for full service is only getting it because that landlord didnt shop around.
They used to charge about 10% to find a tenant and then another 10% for management. They have to earn their money these days because landlords wont give anymore than about a months rent for the full service now. Otherwise they could just let it themselves and have a month vacant between letting and be no worse off. The biggest advantage of an agent for me is that there are no vacant periods to speak of and I dont have to get into the messy side of dealing with tenants myself. Everyone has a sob story and im too soft, so i stay out of it.

Ive read those threads about people not being happy with agents.
There are two sides to it though. What I know is from the agent I use and I have used others in the past and they are basically the same apart from how much they charge.
If you think about it from the landlords point of view he doesnt care that the agents tend to leave ads up if they have more than one apartment in a complex even for different clients and its easier for them to keep rolling over the same ad.
The landlord doesnt care whether the agent gets back to people or not as long as they let their apartments.
Whatever keeps their costs down, keeps the landlords costs down.

But I can see why people think agents are not giving them 100% for not calling them back, and then think apartments are not let if they still see the ad they answered up on daft. Agents have enough turnover they just leave the same ad up for different apartments in the same complex. Sometimes they dont put photos up because they are completely different apartments in the same complex. Obviously they get enough people to answer the ads that this works.

The only problems I will have with an agent is if they call me for small things I want nothing to do with. or if they dont have a tenant ready to move into the property the day after one moves out. Or the rent is late.

If the agent can fob off stupid requests then im happy, but if they come to me over little things that they should be able to take care of without my input then i'll be looking for a new agent. If they gave in and got a tenant a new microwave because of a defrost button, then it would be new agent time too.

Otherwise the agent can do what they like from my point of view. They work for the landlord not the tenant. I want to pay the agent and then forget the property even exists until tax return time.

I had one agent arrange to replace a faulty shower and when I got the bill it was €600. The shower could be got for €60 and installed for €50. The agent blamed the tradesman on the whole thing for overcharging them. I told them to get it removed and a cheaper shower in and refund me the money. They did and said they wouldnt use that tradesman again. It left a bad taste in my mouth so I got rid of the agent at the end of that tenancy. They should have known they were being overcharged, so I suspected shenanigans.