Taxi's and Guide Dogs

Hilly Bill

What's the ruling regarding Taxi's accepting guide dogs with visual impaired passengers? Do they have to take the dogs by law or can they refuse?

I saw an incident today when a taxi driver told a visual impaired person that they had no room for the dog even though the dog just sits in the footwell of the front passenger seat with its owner. Basically when the driver was making an issue out of the dog i told him to forget it and that we would get the next taxi in line and the Blind chap asked me for the taxi id number which i gave and the driver got out of the car and asked why are we taking his number when he didnt say anything about the dog . The next taxi like others before had no issue and just got on with it.

Victor

If the dog is a guide dog, about the only legitimate excuse is if the driver is allergic to dogs.

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

If the dog is a guide dog, about the only legitimate excuse is if the driver is allergic to dogs.

An allergy or a fear of dogs is the only reason to take helping dogs. When I was on the road I gladly took dogs to the pleasant shock of passenger but then again I'm a softie for an animal in distress.

I refused Twink on canine grounds, mind you

mdebets

What about if he refuses on safety grounds, if he can't secure the dog properly?

foggy_lad

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0040.html

(2) A passenger or intending passenger in a small public service vehicle shall not—

(d) carry into such vehicle an animal (other than a guide dog in the company of a visually impaired passenger or, subject to any requirements of regulations under section 34 , a domestic animal in need of urgent veterinary attention.) save with the express permission of the driver, which permission may be withdrawn at any time.

This seems pretty clear to me, it states that no animal can be carried without the permission of the driver "other than" a guide dog in the company of a visually impaired passenger or, subject to any requirements of regulations under section 34 , a domestic animal in need of urgent veterinary attention.

The requirements under section 34 part lead me to believe that taxis must carry you if you are seeking urgent veterinary attention for a domestic animal but the driver would be entitled to charge a soiling charge for cleaning the car afterwards.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2003/en/act/pub/0025/sec0034.html#sec34

(3) In making regulations under this section, the Commission may establish requirements and conditions for the purpose of the assessment of applicants for the grant of licences, including requirements and conditions in respect of—


(a) the fitness of a person to hold a licence having regard to an assessment carried out by the Garda Commissioner or on behalf of the Commission.


(b) requirements relating to the knowledge of the geography, routes, place names and other matters relevant to the provision of service by a small public service vehicle in an area in respect of which a person makes application for the grant of a licence,


(c) the knowledge of and ability to meet the needs of people with disabilities including mobility and sensory difficulties to a standard determined by the Commission in consultation with the National Disability Authority,

Hilly Bill

mdebets wrote: »

What about if he refuses on safety grounds, if he can't secure the dog properly?

He doesnt have to secure the dog. The dog sits inbetween the owners feet in the foot well.

Stereomaniac

I guess some people who aren't used to travelling with animals get nervous about them driving.

Victor

Stereomaniac wrote: »

I guess some people who aren't used to travelling with animals get nervous about them driving.

Oh come on, you should never allow the dog drive.

Losty Dublin

Victor wrote: »

Oh come on, you should never allow the dog drive.

What about a Rover?

mdebets

Hilly Bill wrote: »

He doesnt have to secure the dog. The dog sits inbetween the owners feet in the foot well.

But it's dangerous in the case of an accident, if an unsecured dog goes flying around the car.

schemingbohemia

€40 fixed penalty charge if caught by NTA

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0537.html

Not sure how proof is obtained if not witnessed directly by an NTA employee.

Hilly Bill

mdebets wrote: »

But it's dangerous in the case of an accident, if an unsecured dog goes flying around the car.

its a guide dog not a teacup terrier and its attached to its owner between his feet.

foggy_lad

schemingbohemia wrote: »

€40 fixed penalty charge if caught by NTA

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2012/en/si/0537.html

Not sure how proof is obtained if not witnessed directly by an NTA employee.

The person with the assistance dog should make a complaint to the regulator and presumably this is investigated and the driver fined if there is no evidence that he/she carried the passenger.

It is also possible that another taxi driver that takes the blind person would be happy to act as a witness to the passenger being refused by the first driver. I would consider them not fit to be taxi drivers if they wouldn't.

Mrs OBumble

mdebets wrote: »

What about if he refuses on safety grounds, if he can't secure the dog properly?

What's the deal with unsecured children these days, do taxis have to take them too? Or only if the parent/caregiver provides safety equipment? Would it be ok to just put a child into the footwell?

Victor

The taxi driver isn't obliged to provide child seats / booster seats and there are related exemptions.

Mrs OBumble

Victor wrote: »

The taxi driver isn't obliged to provide child seats / booster seats and there are related exemptions.

Yes, but is a taxi-driver required to accept an unsecured child riding in theiir car, or are they entitled to require the parent to provide safety equipment?

(I'm not being totally facetious either: why is an unsecured child ok, but an unsecured dog is not? One of them going thru the windscreen would upset far more people than the other ...

Hilly Bill

Put it like this, if someone leaves a child unsecured in a moving vehicle then they dont deserve that child. Its up to the driver to make sure that all passengers are secure before moving off. A guide dog wont be sitting on a seat so has no chance of flying out of a windscreen.

mdebets

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Put it like this, if someone leaves a child unsecured in a moving vehicle then they dont deserve that child. Its up to the driver to make sure that all passengers are secure before moving off. A guide dog wont be sitting on a seat so has no chance of flying out of a windscreen.

It doesn't really matter, if the dog sits on the seat or not. It's still unsecured and will fly through the car if you have an accident.

foggy_lad

mdebets wrote: »

It doesn't really matter, if the dog sits on the seat or not. It's still unsecured and will fly through the car if you have an accident.

There are exemptions just like those that state that a Garda does not hve to have a driving licence or does not have to wear a seat belt or that people can get medical exemptions for not wearing seat belts.

Losty Dublin

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, but is a taxi-driver required to accept an unsecured child riding in theiir car, or are they entitled to require the parent to provide safety equipment?

(I'm not being totally facetious either: why is an unsecured child ok, but an unsecured dog is not? One of them going thru the windscreen would upset far more people than the other ...

It's up to a car driver to ensure that a minor is belted up or secured in a car. If stopped by a garda then the driver bears any legal penalty.

Hilly Bill

mdebets wrote: »

It doesn't really matter, if the dog sits on the seat or not. It's still unsecured and will fly through the car if you have an accident.

No it wont unless the car is doing a 360 in the air and at that point it wont matter if it was secured or not anyway.

slimjimmc

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's up to a car driver to ensure that a minor is belted up or secured in a car. If stopped by a garda then the driver bears any legal penalty.

There are a number of exemptions where a child can be carried completely un-secured in a seat other than a front seat.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0240.html.

An un-secured dog is of little risk to anyone, especially when it's snuggled on the floor between it's owners legs. Also guide dogs are sedate creatures and not prone to getting exited or startled easily.

Losty Dublin

slimjimmc wrote: »

There are a number of exemptions where a child can be carried completely un-secured in a seat other than a front seat.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0240.html.

An un-secured dog is of little risk to anyone, especially when it's snuggled on the floor between it's owners legs. Also guide dogs are sedate creatures and not prone to getting exited or startled easily.

I wasn't referring to booster seats etc; I was aware that there is exemptions in law for them in taxis but thanks for the relevant SI

I never had an issue with carrying a dog and the few times I carried then generally the footwell was the best place for them; they always sat happily in there.

Unless they slobbered out an open window doggy style

Ben D Bus

Can I bring/carry with me my assistance/guide dog and mobility aids?
YES. SPSVs (small public service vehicles) must carry guide dogs and mobility aids at no extra charge for customers who need them.

http://transportforireland.ie/faq/taxi

foggy_lad

Ben D Bus wrote: »

Can I bring/carry with me my assistance/guide dog and mobility aids?
YES. SPSVs (small public service vehicles) must carry guide dogs and mobility aids at no extra charge for customers who need them.

http://transportforireland.ie/faq/taxi

And the important part of that is highlighted, Taxi drivers don't have a choice. If allergic or afeard of dogs or moggies then taxi driving is not for you just like window cleaning or being a steeplejack is out for people afraid of heights or who suffer from vertigo.

Spook_ie

foggy_lad wrote: »

And the important part of that is highlighted, Taxi drivers don't have a choice. If allergic or afeard of dogs or moggies then taxi driving is not for you just like window cleaning or being a steeplejack is out for people afraid of heights or who suffer from vertigo.

Not so, however, to refuse a guide dog a driver must have a medical certificate to his allergy or phobia and must (afaik) produce it on request to prove the issue

foggy_lad

Spook_ie wrote: »

Not so, however, to refuse a guide dog a driver must have a medical certificate to his allergy or phobia and must (afaik) produce it on request to prove the issue

Someone should tell the regulator about this as they believe taxi drivers MUST take guide dogs and mobility aids.

slimjimmc

foggy_lad wrote: »

Someone should tell the regulator about this as they believe taxi drivers MUST take guide dogs and mobility aids.

It was the Regulator who signed it into law. http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/si/0467.html

You're reading a FAQ and taking it to be the absolute legal position, it is not. Like many rules, it is subject to an exemption under very specific conditions. Just because the FAQ didn't go into more detail doesn't make what was said untrue.

7. (1) Notwithstanding Regulation 54(6) of the Road Traffic (Public Service Vehicles) Regulations 1963 ( S.I. No. 191 of 1963 ) and subject to paragraph (2), the driver of a small public service vehicle shall not refuse to carry in his or her vehicle a guide dog or other assistance dog accompanying a person with disabilities.

(2) The driver of a small public service vehicle may refuse to carry a guide dog or other assistance dog in his or her vehicle where that driver has furnished to the Commission, in advance of the refusal, a written statement from a registered medical practitioner certifying that the driver concerned is medically unfit to carry a dog in his or her vehicle.

Spook_ie

Can you imagine the legal implications of forcing anyone who was medically certifiable against doing something! Just wow open up the government wallet and pay out some money!


BTW It would also be nigh on impossible to bring in legislation to prevent people with Asthma etc. from becoming taxi drivers as it directly challenges existing EU and Irish Constitutional law against discrimination

Spook_ie

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It's up to a car driver to ensure that a minor is belted up or secured in a car. If stopped by a garda then the driver bears any legal penalty.

A minor being anyone under the age of 17, above this age you are responsible for your own actions in a taxi as to wearing a seat belt or not.

I.E You get the fine/points if you're 17 or older NOT the taxi driver

Victor

farmer oshea wrote: »

The bleeding dog probably smelt better than the taxi man with his festering pubes.

Goodbye

Moderator