Ascu Gen.3 Mosfet, 11.1v Lipo, G&P m120 Motor.

kane gurney

Hello lads.
I have recently finished my custom built m4 It has a 5 month old G&P m120 Custom motor, A 4 month old Ultimate v.2 Gearbox fitted with a brand new ASCU 3rd generation mosfet. Basically I have encountered a few problems with my set up.

1. There is a serious build up of heat through the pistol grip while firing full auto.
2.The gun shoots for a few shoots on a fully charged 8.4 v 3300 MAH before getting the two beeps from the ascu that signals a problem and stops function.
3. It will not cycle at all on a 9.6 1200 Mah :mad: (Same Beeps)

Now the possible answers to 2,3 are listed in the troubleshooting part of the Ascu manual as either. Poor Motor. Poor Battery. It cannot be the battery because they both run well in other guns.

The Motor
About 3 months Ago whilst putting in the Ultimate gearbox The wires earthed. I was a bit Ignorant to this and tried to connect the battery (Unbeknown the Tamiya was wired wrong + to + - t -.... Anyway there was a warp of electrical current and a loud Bang ! Now keep in mind the Gun was stock, was my first ( A M4a1 By DBOYS). These don't have fuses so what could the Chances be the motor got fried somehow and all I need is a new one ?


Anyway I have come to the conclusion that either The motor or shimming is to fault ?
Reason : If A 9.6 on a G&P m120 cannot pull a m90 then The motor must be F***ed Right ?
The shimming could not be right ending up in the motor over working, Over heating and ruling out the motor as the problem..

Anyway That's my 3 problems I may try my own remodies but in the interest of saving money I'm calling on all you other technicians and your expeirience for advice, to save me some much needed cash
Thanks In advance.
Kane
Youtube- http://www.youtube.com/user/ITACairsoft
Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/kane.gurney?ref=tn_tnmn

Rooky1

Hey matey

I would definately try another motor for a start. The M120s can heat up a bit anyway.

All the ASCU mosfets run better with a hi torque motor. (as stated in the instruction leaflet). If you do use the m120 make sure youkeep ARL in the gearbox as well.

Check all your wiring for possible shorts, and check the ASCU FB page for up to date information as well.
https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Airsoft-Systems/150377941783808?fref=ts

If you are plannin on running an 11.1 lipo I would most definately put in a good quality hi torque motor (neo-dynamic magnets)

kane gurney

Thanks for your input . Do you have any recommendations of a nice High torque motor ? I had to put the arl back in after trying with the m120 anyway :O Looks like I will get a new motor and reshim the gearbox. I like the 11.1v lipo because I can't get enough of that fast trigger response Thanks again

Rooky1

If you use a high speed motor you have to keep the ARL in as it states in the instructions as the active braking won't stop it quick enough.

Some good hi torque motors would be;
Guarder Infinite
Systema Magnum
GFC
GP2000
Kanzen
Tienly (or Ultimate)
M160, m170, m180
Element do a decent hi torque as well.
I have used others but can't remember all of them.

Well worth re rechecking your shimming.

kane gurney

Thanks , I will have a look at them. For a 11.1v lipo it has a relatively low fire rate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ9CFHJ8n2k (No chrono sorry)

Rooky1

Personally I would strip the gearbox back down and rebuild it again.
What ratio gears are you using?

kane gurney

That solves a lot of things rebuilding them. They are Standard Ultimate ones so they're at 1:19 ratio. I am going to buy a new Shim set In may so I will try Rebuilding it then, and take extra care with the shimming. I am finding It hard to find any of them High Torque motors in Ireland I may order from asia. What makes them better over a HIGH Speed one ?

Rooky1

High speed motors take time to spin up to full speed. A good hi torque motor actually spins up much faster. A hi speed motor spins faster than the hi torque once it is at speed.

If you want to build a hi speed set up, especially with an 11.1 you are better off going with a hi torque motor and hi speed gears.

Only my opinion, others may have a different view:-)

kane gurney

Makes sense I am going to reshim and put in a Guarder Infinite See how she goes...I'm getting a TM M9a1 So that's going to set me back a bit of cash, After that I may try the High speed gears, Do they make much difference ?

Rooky1

Hi speed gears (16:1's, 14:1's, 13:1's and 10:1's) will give you a very snappy semi especially pared with hi torque motor and even more so with an 11.1 battery.
I run one of my AEGs with hi speed 16:1 gears, hi torque motor and a trigger master3 MOSFET on 11.1s. I have it set for full power on semi and triple burst and then it is programmed to reduce the ROF by 20%.
So if I remember right it does about 23 a second on an 11.1 1200mah 20c lipo.

darkslider

Your set up sounds remarkably similar to mine. Or at least how mine started out. I have an ASCU gen2. I originally bought a G&P m120 motor because so many people tell you it's a brilliant motor. I'm not sure whether this is people trying to sound like they know what they're talking about or just name dropping with the G&P bit, but in my experience the m120 motor is rubbish, a total rip off. All you're paying for is that sticker on the side of it. The magnets are not strong enough for the electronic braking system that comes with the ASCU to work correctly, the gear on the end of the shaft might as well be made of chocolate it's so weak and it's dreadful for overheating. Also having opened one up, the brushes are poor quality and other parts are little better.

I spent a long time searching for an alternative until I discovered this:
Gunfire Tornado

Yes, it's probably a site that most people have never heard of.
Yes, you can buy 3 of them for the cost of a G&P
But let me assure you that despite the price, these motors are great. The magnets are neodymium so they work really well with the ASCU braking/cycle system and higher voltage batteries, the motor is nice and weighty indicating quality parts and I've never had an issue with overheating. They actually look remarkably like re-branded Guarder motors.

Rooky1

The m120 motors work fine with standard 18:1 ratio gears.
Not the worst motors out there, but not the best either.

All the ascu units work best on a good hi torque motor.

The motor you mention is great I mentioned it myself in the previous post.
A lot of motor for not much cash.:)
Which is probably why they go out of stock very quickly.

darkslider

I tried a set up like that originally but kept having anti-rev latch issues.

I still say the 120 motor is one of the worst in it's price point. Don't get me wrong, G & P do some fantastic parts but this is not one of them.

@Kane Gurney - How do you find the ASCU gen 3? The Gen 2 is a revelation - a bit of a nightmare to fit properly, but after that I love it.

Rooky1

Agree I wouldn't use any hi speed motor with an ASCu setup.

Of the two units I prefer the older one, the ascu2. It has a better trigger response and have always found them to be totally reliable.

The ascu3 are not as 'drop in' as advertised. Different gearbox shells need different alterations. The trigger response is not as responsive as the earlier version. I have my doubts as too how reliable the unit will be.
I have them fitted three of them so far.

darkslider

Not as 'drop in' as it says eh? that's interesting. It was appealing because all of the electronics are contained on the trigger boards. The V2 had a lot of cabling and getting it past the motor proved pretty tough. First time round I minced the wiring a bit when I fitted the motor. Still, not having a reverse latch in the gearbox is fantastic, I've always found it to be a point of weakness.

I was goin to order a V3 this week for a new m4 project but I've may doubts about it if reliability is goin to be an issue.

I had also given thought to ordering their hop up unit, but it too seems to have fitting issues around feeding and a drop in fps due to the rubber and bucking not being the greatest. It's probably unnecessary and I'm thinking that it might be too many electronic components in the AEG.

kane gurney

Thanks for the input dark slider Well it's nice the way the unit all fits inside the gearbox. The only problem I have is on the three round burst mode sometimes you only get one shot.. But it's a very nice simple upgrade providing the gearbox shell is compatible. Ordering the guarder infinite this week so we will see how she runs with a Hi torque When I was running my DBoys gearbox on a m90 with a G&P m120 it shoot good at like 25 rps... But I agree It must be the motor leading to the problem. I don't think they run well on anything above 9.6v.

Rooky1

Just a quick note on the ASCU hop unit.
There is no issue with fps or feeding.
You can use any hop rubber you can fit in it.

The issue with the unit is on semi it works flawlessly, but when on full auto it thinks it is empty after every full auto burst, which is odd as there are still bbs in the feed tube engaging the switch.
I have tried all different mags and several different bbs to no avail.
Very disappointed to be honest.

kane gurney

I did hear that one ! But personally now I have my Madbull wheel lock Hop-up chamber I would never go back to a standard one..

Rooky1

Not a fan of the Madbull one myself, but I know what you mean when you find one that you like no other will do.

darkslider

Anyone know where the ASCU can be bought? Everywhere I look its outta stock...

Rooky1

darkslider wrote: »

Anyone know where the ASCU can be bought? Everywhere I look its outta stock...

It's out of stock on all the sites I normally use:-(
The only place I order from that has stock is Evike in the states.
http://www.evike.com/product_info.php?products_id=42081

kane gurney

Would just like to thank you all for your help.
I have put in the guarder infinite motor and all the problems have been solved. It runs of a 8.4 9.6 and 11.1v lipo. It would seem that we've found the the problem and remedy. I've come to the conclusion that the ASCU generation 3 mosfet really does not like High speed motors. It loves High torque motors, trigger response, reliability and functionality are all 20 times better with a high torque motor. As for the hop units..meh..I much prefer my madbull wheel lock any day..

kane gurney

darkslider wrote: »

Anyone know where the ASCU can be bought? Everywhere I look its outta stock...

Try this website here. It's where I got mine from http://specialairsoftsupplies.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=94_101&product_id=984
I know redwolf do them too. If they're out of stock it won't be long until the restock.