Grant Condensing boiler flue kit ?

chuck eastwood

Hi all. I am just about to upgrade my boiler to a Grant Vortex 50/90 and I got a price of 114 Euro plus vat for the flue kit. Like most people I'm on a tight budget and was wondering if I really need to buy this kit as it's in a shed and the flue will be going straight out through the wall. Less than 500MM of a run. I have a pretty new pipe on the old existing boiler. Could I use this or would it affect how efficient it is. The plumber is charging 250 to fit it. Is that about right also have to pay a sparks as I don't want to chance it myself. Any advice would be great

shane0007

You must use the flue kit. Would you take off the exhaust off a mini & fit it to a Ferrari & expect it to work as it should & work safely?
You are installing an excellent boiler but wish to scrimp & you will pay in the long run as you will have zero warranty.
Get it installed professionally & commissioned with the boiler passport completed & returned to Grant.

chuck eastwood

Thanks, I have bought it and having spoken to the plumber who knows his stuff he wouldn't do it without the flu kit. I just didn't know much about it until I picked up the boiler. I intend on having the job done right but just wanted to know what I should expect to pay for someone to commission it. the supplier can send someone out for 100 Euros

Outkast_IRE

chuck eastwood wrote: »

Thanks, I have bought it and having spoken to the plumber who knows his stuff he wouldn't do it without the flu kit. I just didn't know much about it until I picked up the boiler. I intend on having the job done right but just wanted to know what I should expect to pay for someone to commission it. the supplier can send someone out for 100 Euros

Yes if your plumber isnt oftec certified and able to commission it, then you need someone else to come out and commission it and fill in the warranty form . As you can imagine having this warranty form is worth it in case there are any issues down the line.

PHIJOE

If your competant in using a flue gas analyser and can set air and oil pressure ,Grant are happy enough, they are looking for cetain figures on passport.Mainly co2 reading.

DGOBS

PHIJOE, I think Grant and the other manufacturers look for a little bit more than that (if not, why bother with the passport at all!)
, as much more than incorrect combustion can affect the appliance warranty, such as install issues, lack of flushing and inhibitors, condense disposal and routing...and on and on

Most guys I know are approx €80 for a commissioning.

PHIJOE

DGOBS wrote: »

PHIJOE, I think Grant and the other manufacturers look for a little bit more than that (if not, why bother with the passport at all!)
, as much more than incorrect combustion can affect the appliance warranty, such as install issues, lack of flushing and inhibitors, condense disposal and routing...and on and on

Most guys I know are approx €80 for a commissioning.

ery

From talking to guys in grant on passport they look for co2 reading and oil pressure and air is ok. ideally you should be oftec to work on
an oil boiler , but at the moment competant to do so is also allowed.when filling in a boiler passport.
as regards flushing yes every system should be done, oil boiler though are a different animal to gas boiler with the size of waterwaysand heat exchangers so flushing and condensate disposal is not high on list. like everything off course if your boiler splits they will then look for reasons to get out of it.
Grant are very good boilers i would take it been piped and wired properly as a given and the main thing is smoke pump on flue ,then air tweeked and confirmed by analyser .
if co2 is 0ff then then other two are out of sinc, if co is within limits, co2 is at what it should be co /co2 ratio is good then job done. its burning properly,
thats what GRANT want to see.

PHIJOE

PHIJOE wrote: »

ery

From talking to guys in grant on passport they look for co2 reading and oil pressure and air is ok. ideally you should be oftec to work on
an oil boiler , but at the moment competant to do so is also allowed.when filling in a boiler passport.
as regards flushing yes every system should be done, oil boiler though are a different animal to gas boiler with the size of waterwaysand heat exchangers so flushing and condensate disposal is not high on list. like everything off course if your boiler splits they will then look for reasons to get out of it.
Grant are very good boilers i would take it been piped and wired properly as a given and the main thing is smoke pump on flue ,then air tweeked and confirmed by analyser .
if co2 is 0ff then then other two are out of sinc, if co is within limits, co2 is at what it should be co /co2 ratio is good then job done. its burning properly,
thats what GRANT want to see.

I don't understand why some installers want to fight common sence and second guess good working practice. sludge will impact on expansion vessels, pumps auto air releases and other components of a heating system be it oil or gas.

Condensate pipework should be on the top of everyone's list.

Manufactures know from experience what breaks their boilers so why is it such a hardship for some installers to follow a installation manual.

If its thought manufactures are just looking to renege on a warranty why would a installer be silly enough to give them a reason to knock a warranty on the head?

A clean system and well installed will last longer than a dirty system. To say oil boilers don't need as much love as gas is a excuse used by lazy installers who's attitude is payed for by their customers later on down the road.

DGOBS

Manufacturers want all of the above
I think I have a reasonably good grasp of the basics of flue gas analysis at this point, but thanks for the pointers.

As for oil boilers not being as effected by sludge, next time your at Grants ask Kieth to talk you through the impact on them, from blocked heat exchangers to boiler 'expansion', but hey what do I know.

Also, just repaired a warranty boiler for damaged caused by incorrect condensate disposal.

OP if you commissioning tech showed up, took your oil pressure, performed a flue gas analysis and left assuming everything else is fine, I would feel robbed.
Everything should be checked, installating, wiring, fire protection, oil filters, flow/return diffs. , oil supply, oil storage, condensate disposal, flue installation, nozzle size, baffle orientation, boiler and hi limit stat, pump over run and frost protection if applicable, boiler interlock with house controls, ventilation requirements, smoke test, flue gas analysis, instruction on use and future maintanace.

PHIJOE

DGOBS wrote: »

Manufacturers want all of the above
I think I have a reasonably good grasp of the basics of flue gas analysis at this point, but thanks for the pointers.

As for oil boilers not being as effected by sludge, next time your at Grants ask Kieth to talk you through the impact on them, from blocked heat exchangers to boiler 'expansion', but hey what do I know.

Also, just repaired a warranty boiler for damaged caused by incorrect condensate disposal.

OP if you commissioning tech showed up, took your oil pressure, performed a flue gas analysis and left assuming everything else is fine, I would feel robbed.
Everything should be checked, installating, wiring, fire protection, oil filters, flow/return diffs. , oil supply, oil storage, condensate disposal, flue installation, nozzle size, baffle orientation, boiler and hi limit stat, pump over run and frost protection if applicable, boiler interlock with house controls, ventilation requirements, smoke test, flue gas analysis, instruction on use and future maintanace.

my point about condensate disposal and flushing not being high on list , i dont mean me , i am saying what grant mainly look at on passport is burner readings, i make sure all of the above are done as standard . i know very well the affects of open system piped incorrectly has on systems and would never leave one until corrected, oil boilers are more sturdy than gas boilers and can with stand more resistance thats what i mean about a different animal, , off course they still clog up and can corrode, my original answer was not to say thats all that i do on an installation or thats all that is needed, im was talking about making sure burner is set up right and grant look at this part the closest. im not talking about balancing system, boiler size, oil line protected or clipped properly checking temp differential or electrics because i will have done all these things .
maybe my short post had it looking thats all i think is required ,is so i apologise for getting ye lads so worked up.

PHIJOE

PHIJOE wrote: »

my point about condensate disposal and flushing not being high on list , i dont mean me , i am saying what grant mainly look at on passport is burner readings, i make sure all of the above are done as standard . i know very well the affects of open system piped incorrectly has on systems and would never leave one until corrected, oil boilers are more sturdy than gas boilers and can with stand more resistance thats what i mean about a different animal, , off course they still clog up and can corrode, my original answer was not to say thats all that i do on an installation or thats all that is needed, im was talking about making sure burner is set up right and grant look at this part the closest. im not talking about balancing system, boiler size, oil line protected or clipped properly checking temp differential or electrics because i will have done all these things .
maybe my short post had it looking thats all i think is required ,is so i apologise for getting ye lads so worked up.

In fairness I have a bit of a hair trigger, it comes from constantly having to tell customers their 4/5 year old boiler requires replacing due to installation errors, makes me grump.

PHIJOE

gary71 wrote: »

In fairness I have a bit of a hair trigger, it comes from constantly having to tell customers their 4/5 year old boiler requires replacing due to installation errors, makes me grump.

No probs, i understand, im just back from seeing a gas vokera ehe boiler with qualpex straight off boiler, no permanent live ,no fuse switch, condensate pipe done in qualpex drilled up at a slight angle and cut outside flush to the wall. customer had old vokera boiler changed by former gas installer (who is fulltime in semi state now)prob seen condensing boiler for first time, (i use the word gas installer loosely) he charged 200 euro to change boiler ,customer asked him to fit a magnacleanse and he replied they didnt need it as it wasnt a hard water area, you couldnt make it up.
it was a disgrace , though the onus is now on me to report him.

so i understand,