45 acres newbie beef farmer

businessdit

Hi All -

I have about 45 acres of land with stream in a farming area next to my home - Its land that has not been used for quite a while so quite bushy with gorse etc.

I want to raise cattle for beef. Can anyone recommend where I should start?
I dont have a direct farming background, but am a very hard worker, am happy in a field and can learn quickly.

How many cows should I start? and what do I need to do to the land to make it ready for them? Also what expenses/costs should I expect to incur? (feed, vet fees, slaughterhouse and bagging?)

Also in the long run is it possible to turn a small 45 acre holding like this into a commercially viable lifestyle business? How much livestck could I expect to hold?

Would be interesting to hear your views!

Regards,

Alan

49801

IMO 45 acres not viable for beef alone. You would need something else like your own butcher shop, farm store, coffee house, petting zoo etc.
veg might be an option but I know little of that side of things.

How best start... Get a few animals to begin with and start cleaning the land up

nhg

This forum is fantastic for information. Firstly you will need a herd no if you have'nt got one. The Teagasc Beef Manual has lots of information €25 as has The Farmers Handbook 2013 & read up on Bord Bia requirements. If you have any friends/neighbours farming offer to give them a hand so that you can so that you can learn how to look after animals & get used to being around a working farm.

While you are getting everything department wise sorted you could be cleaning up land & making sure that your bounds are well fenced & your electric fencing in place & all water troughs in good positions (I.e. if large fields you might want to divide them with electric fences to a paddock system).

Decide which fields you are going to make silage off (assuming you have sheds to winter cattle indoors - maybe you are going to out winter).

I have been a townie all my life and never even considered farming, only farming since late last year part time (due to an untimely bereavement in my family)would only love to be full time at it if we could make a living off it - hopefully some day. Thankfully my husband spend most of his youth working on farms & still helps out a farmer on Saturdays so he knows what needs to be done. We spend every Sunday fencing, hanging gates, spreading fertiliser etc, its a lovely way of life.

Best of luck with it.

Damo810

Don't quit your day job if you have one. If I were you i'd also steer clear of cows, too much hassle and the majority of the work comes at once with calving, which for someone who's inexperienced..

You could get started up with a few calves, rear them to 1 or 2 years old, or buy a few bullocks to start off with. Either way your facing a considerable investment. €7500 for 30 calves at €250. 15 bullocks at €800 each works out at €12K. Then theres silage, fencing, a tractor, equipment, have you any housing for them over the winter? Feed bills will be large, if you were to feed 1.5Kg meal per day for a year, your talking in the region of €150 a head.

Your talking about a large workload too, clearing your land if it has gorse and bushes, thats no mean feet on 45acres..Fencing all that up too, if you have a shed with a solid floor you'll be mucking out often enough too (which would add another cost in straw).

Vets bills should be fairly small (especially as regards bullocks) dosing and other items like it won't make too big of a hole..

My advice, start out small, a few bullocks and build your place up, it'll never really support you in a comfortable way so keep doing whatever youve been at up til now. Apply for everything you can, there'll be a few more who'll tell you more about grants/subsidies than I could..

businessdit

nhg wrote: »

While you are getting everything department wise sorted you could be cleaning up land & making sure that your bounds are well fenced & your electric fencing in place & all water troughs in good positions (I.e. if large fields you might want to divide them with electric fences to a paddock system).

Thnaks for all of the info - How exactly do I begin clearing the land? I have a digger and was thinking that the first step might be to pull up and get rid of all of the thorny scrub bushes. Then do I plough the ground and just put down new grass seed and fertilizer?

As you can probably see I am completely new to this!

Ho strong do fences have to be for cattle and if I had pigs/goats/lambs etc and other animals can the animals mix or do they strictly have to be seperated?

businessdit

Thnaks you very much for the help Damo Its really appreciated!

Damo810 wrote: »

Don't quit your day job if you have one. If I were you i'd also steer clear of cows, too much hassle and the majority of the work comes at once with calving, which for someone who's inexperienced..

I wont be quitting my day job - This will by the looks of it be a hobby enterprise. Sorry if this sounds stupid but can you possibly explain the dfferent functions that a cow, bullock and bull do on a farm? I know that physically they are all different, but which can I rear for meat etc.

Damo810 wrote: »

You could get started up with a few calves, rear them to 1 or 2 years old, or buy a few bullocks to start off with. Either way your facing a considerable investment. €7500 for 30 calves at €250. 15 bullocks at €800 each works out at €12K. Then theres silage, fencing, a tractor, equipment, have you any housing for them over the winter? Feed bills will be large, if you were to feed 1.5Kg meal per day for a year, your talking in the region of €150 a head.

This sounds good - Maybe I will start with only a couple of cows or bullocks and see if thats eough to keep tturning over for meat and to keep me happy in my spare time.

How much time investment would you think would be required each week for looking after say 10 cows once I have made fences and cleaned up the land?

Is that 150euro a head per year? Also would that be reduced if I fed them hay/silage instead.

Damo810 wrote: »

Your talking about a large workload too, clearing your land if it has gorse and bushes, thats no mean feet on 45acres..Fencing all that up too, if you have a shed with a solid floor you'll be mucking out often enough too (which would add another cost in straw).

I'll have to start gradually acre by acre - How many acres do I need for each cow for instance - would 1 acre per cow be enough?

Damo810 wrote: »

My advice, start out small, a few bullocks and build your place up, it'll never really support you in a comfortable way so keep doing whatever youve been at up til now. Apply for everything you can, there'll be a few more who'll tell you more about grants/subsidies than I could..

Didnt think I would be eligible for any grants or subsidies - I thought that was all gone to new farmers.

1chippy

If you have the finances go for it. If you dont it will be a long haul. 45 acres at 400 an acre reseed cost. Runs into 18000, that includes spraying, clearing, ploughing,seed and seeding. fencing could be done on the cheap to start with but will still mount to around5k. Water to all the fields is going to throw another few quid away. Then getting an advisor, herd no. and handling facilities will use up another bit. you will then look at a tractor and a few sheds. Now you can consider buying a few animals with a very low return and a long time pulling back in your initial investment. Profits realistically will be non existant your first few years out until you get the run of things. Grants such as single farm payment may not be available to some extent if you are only starting out unless your a young trained farmer or your land comes with entitlements.
If you still want to farm after that you qualify to be just as thick and stubborn as the rest of us.
If i was going in blind like that i would be looking at renting it out long term with an agreement in place to reseed, fence and basically set the ground right for you. you can watch how that farmer works his system and adapt accordingly. There is no point in going in blind and being disheartened swiftly. Its a lovely lifestyle but an extremely costly one. you have to remember that ost farmers spend a lifetime to get a farm to a productive level.

businessdit

1chippy wrote: »

If you have the finances go for it. If you dont it will be a long haul. 45 acres at 400 an acre reseed cost. Runs into 18000, that includes spraying, clearing, ploughing,seed and seeding. fencing could be done on the cheap to start with but will still mount to around5k. Water to all the fields is going to throw another few quid away. Then getting an advisor, herd no. and handling facilities will use up another bit. you will then look at a tractor and a few sheds. Now you can consider buying a few animals with a very low return and a long time pulling back in your initial investment. Profits realistically will be non existant your first few years out until you get the run of things. Grants such as single farm payment may not be available to some extent if you are only starting out unless your a young trained farmer or your land comes with entitlements.
If you still want to farm after that you qualify to be just as thick and stubborn as the rest of us.
If i was going in blind like that i would be looking at renting it out long term with an agreement in place to reseed, fence and basically set the ground right for you. you can watch how that farmer works his system and adapt accordingly. There is no point in going in blind and being disheartened swiftly. Its a lovely lifestyle but an extremely costly one. you have to remember that ost farmers spend a lifetime to get a farm to a productive level.

Thanks Chippy - That certainly is quite expensive! - Is that cost based on a contractor carrying out the work? If I had a lend of machinery how much would it cost me per acre if I did it myself? I have 3 days and a few evenings every week so Im sure I could probably do it myself? Or am I just dreaming here? Im not going to do all of the 45 acres at once - If I could get 10 I'd be happy.

Can you put cattle on any land...but the worse the land the more feed you hav to give them? - is that the way it works?

I not too interested in profits - but yes do not want to make a great loss on the venture either...so will take on board all of your suggestions.

yellow50HX

businessdit wrote: »

Thanks Chippy - That certainly is quite expensive! - Is that cost based on a contractor carrying out the work? If I had a lend of machinery how much would it cost me per acre if I did it myself? I have 3 days and a few evenings every week so Im sure I could probably do it myself? Or am I just dreaming here? Im not going to do all of the 45 acres at once - If I could get 10 I'd be happy.

Can you put cattle on any land...but the worse the land the more feed you hav to give them? - is that the way it works?

I not too interested in profits - but yes do not want to make a great loss on the venture either...so will take on board all of your suggestions.

well you sound like you want to make a go of it so that's always a good start.

1st things 1st, if you want to keep cattle then you need facilities. is there any shed on the land? you will need to built a crush for handling cattle for herd test and general checking and medical work.

If you want to keep them over winter you'll need a shed or else you'll have to out winter. Out wintering is much cheaper but your land needs to be able to take the punishment. One way to do that is to put part of the farm in corn and use either beet or kale and feeding crop. The cattle would then be on the stubble over the winter and be able to access the kale/beet for feeding and you can put in bales of silage in a ring feeder on the stubble. The stubble and beet/kale ground will get a bit a poaching over the winter but it spares the grass. This ground would then be re-ploughed and planted the following year.

If the land still needs to be cleared then there no point getting any cattle this year. Now that the land is starting to dry off I would start clearing it. you said you have your own digger so that will help you clear away the scrub. IF there are any fields that don't have shrub and weeds in them then they may be suitable for cutting. try to get old grass off, cutting, topping or a few horse's from the local ghost estate will bare it down and when the new growth comes back bale it for silage. If there are any decent sized limbs in the fields (not ditches) cut them for fire wood, store them in a dry place for the summer and you can sell them next winter.

Once the place is cleared off you may find that drains need to be dug, do this before you reseed the field. once all that is done it'll probly be summer time. reseeding can be done at number if times during the year depending how you do it.

Because the land has been idle for so long it'll probably be need to be ploughed. If it were me (just a suggestion) i would identify what part the farm can be used for tillage/outwintering (say 20 acres). I would use this to set winter barley/wheat in august. This would then be ready for an early cut next summer (july). I would then plant 1/4 of that land in kale straight away after harvesting the corn ( i know lads that would have the kale set in the day they take the bales out). This would then provide winter forage for cattle or sheep. if you want to outwinter until you have enough to saved to put in winter housing you can rotate the land. The following year you can plough in the tillage land for spring corn and beet which can be strip grazed like the kale over the winter. Beet is a very good break crop for corn so many tillage farmer down here in cork used to do a 1:3 or 1:4 split. That is having 1/4 or 1/5 of the land in beet and rotating it around so that all the land is in beet once every 3 to 4 years. The straw made from the corn can be used to balance the beet in the winter diet, and the excess sold.

The rest of the farm i would re seed in the late summer/early autumn. This would allow it time to bed in over the winter and be ready for grazing in spring. You could then buy a few cattle and let them out on the grass. The grazing area would provide grass for grazing the cattle and for silage. Depending on your numbers you can increase the grazing area by under sowing the corn with grass seed. you can then cut this corn as arable silage or let it go to ripening and cut for corn. After the corn is cut the grass will be left behind and filed will then become a grass field.

Get a quick attach for the front of the digger and get your self a bale spike. This is be ideal for feeding the bales and will be able to do a lot of the work on the farm carrying the stakes and posts for when your fencing. you can contract in someone to do the tractor work (silage cutting, tillage, spraying, spreading fertilizer) etc etc.

suckler cows need a bit of work and a close eye needs to be kept on them so are not ideal novices. dry cattle that that are about a year old and can be fattened off the land would be a better bet. less work and can be pretty much left to there own devices once they have water and food they are ok. make sure you herd them every day so that they used to you and this will make it easier when it comes to moving them and getting them back onto a trailer for going to the factory.

would be a good idea to do a bit of part time work on a neighbouring farm to get an idea of the work involved while your land is growing.

Have no idea of where you are or if your land is suitable but that's just a suggestion. you may find that your not cut out for the farming

freedominacup

If the land is arable quality there might be something to be said for renting it for a nominal cost to a well equipped tillage farmer for 2 years on the proviso that he puts it back into grass for you after the second harvest. You could spend your spare time over the summer clearing the place with your digger and leave it in a halfway presentable manner for your tenant. One of the locals here did it with a farm in the past couple of years but in his case it was an add on to a fairly substantial farm and the guy in question doesn't make too many mistakes. He's just stocking this land now after 2 years and the contractor who took it has done the re-seeding. The farmer did whatever clearing needed to be done before the contractor went in. You will probably find when you start clearing that there's a few acres you can't see around the ditches overgrown by scrub. You need to soil test as one of your first steps €250 to Teagasc would probably be money well spent.

yellow50HX

freedominacup wrote: »

If the land is arable quality there might be something to be said for renting it for a nominal cost to a well equipped tillage farmer for 2 years on the proviso that he puts it back into grass for you after the second harvest. You could spend your spare time over the summer clearing the place with your digger and leave it in a halfway presentable manner for your tenant. One of the locals here did it with a farm in the past couple of years but in his case it was an add on to a fairly substantial farm and the guy in question doesn't make too many mistakes. He's just stocking this land now after 2 years and the contractor who took it has done the re-seeding. The farmer did whatever clearing needed to be done before the contractor went in. You will probably find when you start clearing that there's a few acres you can't see around the ditches overgrown by scrub. You need to soil test as one of your first steps €250 to Teagasc would probably be money well spent.

yeah good idea. forgot to mention the soil sampling earlier

businessdit

yellow50HX wrote: »

well you sound like you want to make a go of it so that's always a good start.

1st things 1st, if you want to keep cattle then you need facilities. is there any shed on the land? you will need to built a crush for handling cattle for herd test and general checking and medical work.

If you want to keep them over winter you'll need a shed or else you'll have to out winter. Out wintering is much cheaper but your land needs to be able to take the punishment. One way to do that is to put part of the farm in corn and use either beet or kale and feeding crop. The cattle would then be on the stubble over the winter and be able to access the kale/beet for feeding and you can put in bales of silage in a ring feeder on the stubble. The stubble and beet/kale ground will get a bit a poaching over the winter but it spares the grass. This ground would then be re-ploughed and planted the following year.

If the land still needs to be cleared then there no point getting any cattle this year. Now that the land is starting to dry off I would start clearing it. you said you have your own digger so that will help you clear away the scrub. IF there are any fields that don't have shrub and weeds in them then they may be suitable for cutting. try to get old grass off, cutting, topping or a few horse's from the local ghost estate will bare it down and when the new growth comes back bale it for silage. If there are any decent sized limbs in the fields (not ditches) cut them for fire wood, store them in a dry place for the summer and you can sell them next winter.

Once the place is cleared off you may find that drains need to be dug, do this before you reseed the field. once all that is done it'll probly be summer time. reseeding can be done at number if times during the year depending how you do it.

Because the land has been idle for so long it'll probably be need to be ploughed. If it were me (just a suggestion) i would identify what part the farm can be used for tillage/outwintering (say 20 acres). I would use this to set winter barley/wheat in august. This would then be ready for an early cut next summer (july). I would then plant 1/4 of that land in kale straight away after harvesting the corn ( i know lads that would have the kale set in the day they take the bales out). This would then provide winter forage for cattle or sheep. if you want to outwinter until you have enough to saved to put in winter housing you can rotate the land. The following year you can plough in the tillage land for spring corn and beet which can be strip grazed like the kale over the winter. Beet is a very good break crop for corn so many tillage farmer down here in cork used to do a 1:3 or 1:4 split. That is having 1/4 or 1/5 of the land in beet and rotating it around so that all the land is in beet once every 3 to 4 years. The straw made from the corn can be used to balance the beet in the winter diet, and the excess sold.

The rest of the farm i would re seed in the late summer/early autumn. This would allow it time to bed in over the winter and be ready for grazing in spring. You could then buy a few cattle and let them out on the grass. The grazing area would provide grass for grazing the cattle and for silage. Depending on your numbers you can increase the grazing area by under sowing the corn with grass seed. you can then cut this corn as arable silage or let it go to ripening and cut for corn. After the corn is cut the grass will be left behind and filed will then become a grass field.

Get a quick attach for the front of the digger and get your self a bale spike. This is be ideal for feeding the bales and will be able to do a lot of the work on the farm carrying the stakes and posts for when your fencing. you can contract in someone to do the tractor work (silage cutting, tillage, spraying, spreading fertilizer) etc etc.

suckler cows need a bit of work and a close eye needs to be kept on them so are not ideal novices. dry cattle that that are about a year old and can be fattened off the land would be a better bet. less work and can be pretty much left to there own devices once they have water and food they are ok. make sure you herd them every day so that they used to you and this will make it easier when it comes to moving them and getting them back onto a trailer for going to the factory.

would be a good idea to do a bit of part time work on a neighbouring farm to get an idea of the work involved while your land is growing.

Have no idea of where you are or if your land is suitable but that's just a suggestion. you may find that your not cut out for the farming

Thanks very much for all of the information - To be honest I'm a bit confused as some people are telling me to plough the field while others I know are advising that the field should not be ploughed after it is cleared as that will just turn al of the topsoil on its ear...

Its in a farming area and all of the surrounding fields have animaals so i presume it could be used for farming...

ordinarily do farmers plough fields every year? i know a few beef farmers in my area who as far as i am aware do not plough every year - the hay just grows up again once its cut?

cheers.

TEAT SQUEEZER

with some very small investments you could run 10-15 cattle on the 45 as it is... a temp fence and a elec fencer is your first need so now you have control over the stock... hopefully you can satisfy water req. from your stream.. so get your official stuff organised (herd no.) and take it from there . if what i say sounds simplified compared to some others im coming at this from the angle that you just want a taste of farming and want to learn on the job without to much hassle.. i like freedoms idea if you have much grander plans....

yellow50HX

businessdit wrote: »

Thanks very much for all of the information - To be honest I'm a bit confused as some people are telling me to plough the field while others I know are advising that the field should not be ploughed after it is cleared as that will just turn al of the topsoil on its ear...

Its in a farming area and all of the surrounding fields have animaals so i presume it could be used for farming...

ordinarily do farmers plough fields every year? i know a few beef farmers in my area who as far as i am aware do not plough every year - the hay just grows up again once its cut?

cheers.

it depends on the quality of the grass. if the land hasnt been worked in while then its best to make a fresh start. when it comes to grazing pasture reseedign is only required when the pasture has before too poor. there are a number of ways to do it with out ploughing but if your land has a lot of weeds, old brass and shurbery i'd spray it off and plough it in.

DieselPowered

Is the land in your name and would you consider renting it out for silage or hay etc? You will probably get a quicker return without the hassle of looking after cattle.


Thanks.

alpaca_man

can you possibly explain the dfferent functions that a cow, bullock and bull do on a farm?

ordinarily do farmers plough fields every year? i know a few beef farmers in my area who as far as i am aware do not plough every year - the hay just grows up again once its cut?

No doubt you are enthusiastic which helps but, no offence, you do sound incredibly n00bish and naieve. The level of investment required to set up even a break even operation are with large and it's a fine act even with proper experience.

To be honest, going in completely blind as you are is almost certain to end in tears.
Unless you have close friend or family member who can basically guide and mentor you all the way and show you how to do things, you really should not go ploughing money into this. Once you put the chips on the table, there's no taking them back again.
Also it is an incredibly labour intensive and stressful job for little if any return. The "feed crisis" and "suicide" threads are testament to this.
As others have hinted at, your best course of action would be to let the land out for a few years so they can at least get the land into a useable condition. Then you can have time to think it over. You will also likely make more money out of it and not have a huge additional workload.
Perhaps you could retain 4 or 5 acres for a "feeler" of the operation and keep a few goats or alpacas (as I would do !) or something to give you a taste of the work involved.
Because what happens if you go all in and then find you do not like it or the stresss is too much? Then you have massive debts and it could all go tits up and you'd have to sell the land.

Make no mistake, there are any number of thing to go wrong. This is not something to rush into, certainly not for a n00b. Do not make any rash decisions.
If you go for it, make sure you have some reliable expertise on hand to guide you. Even then, nothing's certain.

Farmer Pudsey

You are taking on a big job and cash outlay will be huge. However even with all that if you are really intrested have a go.Do not expect to make any money for 10+ yeras out of it. What you have to do is like buying land. It will cost 1K+/acre to reclaim.

What type od overgrowth is present is it gorse/briers/furze/whitethorn. If you use a digger to reclaim you will take a lot off P&K off the land. Have seen a few places done like this and land is very hungry afterwards. However is you have a digger it will be most viable.

Remember at present you are in the nesting season so I do not know are you allowed to reclaim at present. If land is very over grown you may be better off starting with a 10A section reclaim reseed and fence. What type of soil/ground is underneath. Is it dry fertile soil. heavy land or are you near stone. The digger you have access to is it a track machine or a JCB. For reclaiming overgrown land there is a shredder head for track machines however you need a fairly heavy machine for this. It is supposed to do a fine job.

Contractors that have them charge about 600/acre to reclaim as far as I know might seem expensive but all the P&K from the scrub is left in the ground. With PK fertlizers so expensive unless you will have access to free slurry I would consider it. This equipment will bring land up to a fine tilt as far as I am aware and all you do is harrow and spread seed. Toy will have to spray after seseeding maybe a few times to kill any emerging scrub plants.

Alot will depend on the scrub present as to your best options.

Damo810

.

Damo810

businessdit wrote: »

Thnaks you very much for the help Damo Its really appreciated!




I wont be quitting my day job - This will by the looks of it be a hobby enterprise. Sorry if this sounds stupid but can you possibly explain the dfferent functions that a cow, bullock and bull do on a farm? I know that physically they are all different, but which can I rear for meat etc.

Good, as said, it won't pay for itself for a while, even still after that you won't make a "livin off the land".

Cow will give you a calf, pretty simple but the startup costs here as well as short term expenses for these are a little too much for you I think. Along with the joyful calving period and bulling season (You won't want a bull on the farm, so you'll have to keep an eye out for cows coming into heat and then get them ai'd).

Bullock is a castrated bull, raised for nothing but meat. As with people, the males get the short end of the stick here..

Bulls can be for meat or for breeding..




This sounds good - Maybe I will start with only a couple of cows or bullocks and see if thats eough to keep tturning over for meat and to keep me happy in my spare time.

Clear however much land you can, and stock it at 1 bullock to every 1.5-2 acres. You don't want to be arse'in about with fert or re-seeding just yet.

How much time investment would you think would be required each week for looking after say 10 cows once I have made fences and cleaned up the land?

Cows would vary, depending on time of the year, as I said above, breeding and calving season can be a nightmare with cows. As for 10 bullocks, not much at all, they'll take care of themselves, some dosing and maybe throwing them some meal, not much else. 10 minutes a day just to check up on them would suffice really..

Is that 150euro a head per year? Also would that be reduced if I fed them hay/silage instead.

Yes, but thats along with hay/silage which would be another cost on top of that. Depending on what you keep (age/sex/breed), that cost will vary..

I'll have to start gradually acre by acre - How many acres do I need for each cow for instance - would 1 acre per cow be enough?

Start small, clear the land whenever you can. You can always throw in an extra animal if you find your understocked for the amount of land you have cleared or take it for bales and sell them on. Stocking rate would depend on your land. Just don't overstock, start small and you'll get to know your way around.

..Whatever you do, don't rush into anything, do as much research as you can and find out as much as you can. If you invest 20-30K unwisely in this project you may never see it again and it may become nothing other than a money-pit.