New healthy cars causing health problems

The Bishop Basher · 22-04-2013 5:44pm #1

Looks like the Greens got it doubly wrong when they introduced the two tier tax system on post 2008 cars. I wonder will the current coalition rethink the policy based on this. I doubt it.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/cleaner-cars-causing-health-issues-for-elderly-29211798.html

www.independent.ie/irish-news/cleaner-cars-causing-health-issues-for-elderly-29211798.html

The Bishop Basher · 22-04-2013 5:46pm

OSI wrote: »

What?

Link added.

colm_mcm · 22-04-2013 5:55pm

Diesel engines are still relatively new, they're only out 120 years. How were they supposed to know?

Supergurrier · 22-04-2013 6:49pm

They don't give a sh*t it's just a revenue collecting exercise

OldmanMondeo · 22-04-2013 7:35pm

The CO based system was only to try and get cars selling again. It worked for a while. Now that sales have dropped, the tax will be pushed back up.

AltAccount · 22-04-2013 7:51pm

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

The CO based system was only to try and get cars selling again. It worked for a while. Now that sales have dropped, the tax will be pushed back up.

Cars were selling like hotcakes when the CO2 system was introduced.

colm_mcm · 22-04-2013 7:54pm

AltAccount wrote: »

Cars were selling like hotcakes when the CO2 system was introduced.

That's because a lot of diesel cars were artificially expensive up to then and had high tax.
Eg an avensis diesel was €5000 more than a petrol.

Eric Cartman · 22-04-2013 7:56pm

an excuse to load more tax on to diesel / diesel cars perhaps.

Guy:Incognito · 22-04-2013 8:13pm

Is this not just a rehash of the story last week that tried to blame diesels on x number of deaths etc by saying they pollute but without any evidence of a link while conveniently leaving out everything else that pollutes, like petrols for instance.

Tenuous link is tenuous.

OldmanMondeo · 22-04-2013 8:21pm

AltAccount wrote: »

Cars were selling like hotcakes when the CO2 system was introduced.

In 2008 the market started to fail, if it already had not. The scrapage scheme was also over.

AltAccount · 22-04-2013 10:05pm

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

In 2008 the market started to fail, if it already had not. The scrapage scheme was also over.

In 2007 the market was seriously buoyant, which is when the CO2 system was concocted and enacted. It's introduction was horribly timed in parallel with the downturn - pure bad luck.
It had nothing to do with boosting sales.

Andrew_Doran · 22-04-2013 11:30pm

Here is a programme from BBC Radio 4 that recently reported on a big surge in the number of babies being admitted to hospital with a condition called infant bronchiolitis. The report suggests that it's largely down to the increase in the number of diesel cars on the road, and that in reality diesels aren't much cleaner now than they were 20 years ago.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lhgyn

A separate article saying that manufacturers are fooling the emissions tests:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/62838/questions-raised-over-manufacturers-emissions-tests

I had a look at the EU report (don't have the link right now). As an example (and from memory) using "creative" techniques during the EU test like shutting body panel gaps, over inflating tyres, and filling wheel bearings with oil instead of grease, the CO2/MPG figures are up to 16% better on paper than they would have been 10 years ago.

All that glisters is not gold!

mb1725 · 23-04-2013 12:36am

Cue another carbon tax next Budget day!

galwaytt · 23-04-2013 8:30am

OldmanMondeo wrote: »

The CO based system was only to try and get cars selling again. It worked for a while. Now that sales have dropped, the tax will be pushed back up.

No it didn't. Sales fell before it's introduction, and continued to fall afterwards. It was a complete Green Party PR stunt.

Signs by, look at all the small 'clean' cars that are nearly back up to cc-based tax levels already.

Anan1 · 23-04-2013 8:35am

galwaytt wrote: »

No it didn't. Sales fell before it's introduction, and continued to fall afterwards. It was a complete Green Party PR stunt.

Signs by, look at all the small 'clean' cars that are nearly back up to cc-based tax levels already.

It wasn't supposed to stimulate sales, it was supposed to incentivise people to choose cars with lower CO2 emmissions. It worked, and it's still working.

listermint · 23-04-2013 8:37am

Anan1 wrote: »

It wasn't supposed to stimulate sales, it was supposed to incentivise people to choose cars with lower tax. It worked, and it's still working.

FYP

biko · 23-04-2013 8:43am

"New healthy cars" in title is quite misleading.
Neither are they new nor claiming to be healthy in any way.

ratracer · 23-04-2013 8:51am

galwaytt wrote: »

No it didn't. Sales fell before it's introduction, and continued to fall afterwards. It was a complete Green Party PR stunt.

Signs by, look at all the small 'clean' cars that are nearly back up to cc-based tax levels already.

This.

When I bought a 2010 Focus, the tax 2011 was €156 and in 2012 it jumped by almost 50% to €200. If all the tax bands were increased by so much in such a short space of time there would be outcry, yet a lot of people I have discussed this with are of the opinion that ' it's only €200, sure isn't it still cheap'

It's long past time where a proper universal tax system was introduced for all vehicles. However, I doubt anyone in authority has the ability or would be given the power to introduce such a system.

Anan1 · 23-04-2013 9:07am

listermint wrote: »

FYP

I'm sorry, I don't see your point? Lower CO2 emmissions = lower tax.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-04-2013 9:22am

Supergurrier wrote: »

They don't give a sh*t it's just a revenue collecting exercise

True that they don't give a **** but its hardly a revenue collecting exercise when they are collecting considerably less than 5 years ago when the shower of arseholes in government allowed a stupid little pathetic bunch of tree huggers determine the entire motor taxation system and then the electorate hammered them in the following election and they disappeared off the face of the earth. They need to go back to the original system, diesel cars are false economy for many people. They think that because they're getting 7 or 8mpg more than the petrol engines equivalent that its good value but didnt factor in the €3k extra buying price. Diesels are only if use when your doing more than 40k miles a year any less and your only fooling yourself.

listermint · 23-04-2013 9:26am

Anan1 wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't see your point? Lower CO2 emmissions = lower tax.

Or

Lower Tax = Lower Emmissions.

Who said i had a point ?

Cart Horse or Horse Cart ?

See...
I did it again

Anan1 · 23-04-2013 9:40am

listermint wrote: »

Or

Lower Tax = Lower Emmissions.

Who said i had a point ?

Cart Horse or Horse Cart ?

See...
I did it again

Good argument, well made. Then again, experience has taught me to expect nothing less from you.;)

cjt156 · 23-04-2013 9:55am

ratracer wrote: »

When I bought a 2010 Focus, the tax 2011 was €156 and in 2012 it jumped by almost 50% to €200.

€44 is not nearly 50%, in fact its less than 30%. And €200 is bloody cheap to tax a car in this country. Did you honestly think you would be paying that little for the lifetime of the car?

CJhaughey · 23-04-2013 10:20am

ratracer wrote: »

This.

When I bought a 2010 Focus, the tax 2011 was €156 and in 2012 it jumped by almost 50% to €200. If all the tax bands were increased by so much in such a short space of time there would be outcry, yet a lot of people I have discussed this with are of the opinion that ' it's only €200, sure isn't it still cheap'

Mine went up from 660 to 710 on a 99 Avensis, Your tax is still less than 1/3rd of mine. I doubt mine does 3 times the pollution or damage to the roads as your focus.
Sure isn't your tax still cheap?

H3llR4iser · 23-04-2013 11:26am

Anan1 wrote: »

It wasn't supposed to stimulate sales, it was supposed to incentivise people to choose cars with lower CO2 emmissions. It worked, and it's still working.

What I just can't figure out is: didn't they anticipate that, in the long(ish) run, the system would have led to a dramatically decreased income from motor tax?

Matt Simis · 23-04-2013 11:53am

Whats most frustrating here is the danger of NOX and PM was and is well publicised, repeated often and demonstrated by restrictions on Diesel sales in places like the US.

Yet in the very article the backpeddling by our alleged Environment Minister Phil Hogan implies this is a shocking new revelation. Think of both parties next time you sit behind a not only a black smoke spewing "average diesel" but a invisible exhaust "good diesel" which is emitting emissions that you are inhaling of a size no filter can stop, penetrating your lungs and body in a damaging manner that today we have no real concept of.

We can spitball the "why did our government make such a series of stupid decisions" all we want, but the reality (for whatever the reasons) is they did it fully in the face of both science and engineering research advising against mass "diesel-isation".

- VRT import reduction on Diesels - wrong move
- Lower Tax on Diesels due to "green values" - wrong move
- Penalty on "high CO2" Petrol cars - wrong move
- Penalty on Petrol fuel (8c a litre extra Carbon tax) - idiocy

Anan1 · 23-04-2013 12:03pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

What I just can't figure out is: didn't they anticipate that, in the long(ish) run, the system would have led to a dramatically decreased income from motor tax?

The central tenet of the new system was to relatively favour cars with lower CO2 emissions, the figures could always be jacked up across the board to maintain or even increase the overall take.

New healthy cars causing health problems

Comments