2008> high performance & low tax machines?

Sobanek

Hey guys, I thought this topic could be some hope to the Irish motoring industry...

Technology has progressed a lot in the last couple of years, and we're seeing a lot more high performance, low emmission cars nowadays.

What cars do you know?

2013 BMW 750i
4.4L V8, 450hp, 199g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

2008 Audi S4
3.0L V6, 333hp, 190g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Volkswagen Golf GTI
2.0 I4, 220hp, 139g/km (€280 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche Cayman S 3.4 PDK
3.4 H6, 325hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 BMW M135i
3.0 I6, 320hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.6 PDK
3.6 H6, 350hp, 194g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

ShadowHearth

Is the new gti so low to tax?

Celly Smunt

Sobanek wrote: »

Hey guys, I thought this topic could be some hope to the Irish motoring industry...

Technology has progressed a lot in the last couple of years, and we're seeing a lot more high performance, low emmission cars nowadays.

What cars do you know?

2013 BMW 750i
4.4L V8, 450hp, 199g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

2008 Audi S4
3.0L V6, 333hp, 190g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Volkswagen Golf GTI
2.0 I4, 220hp, 139g/km (€280 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche Cayman S 3.4 PDK
3.4 H6, 325hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 BMW M135i
3.0 I6, 320hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.6 PDK
3.6 H6, 350hp, 194g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

Chances are bigger cars of this vintage will be gold dust in a few years time with nobody buying.

there'll be plenty of Tdi's and audi diesels though.:(

Zubeneschamali

OSI wrote: »

It is. 40+ MPG too apparently.

What, 40 mpg on some standardized test? Because I don't believe for a second that a real driver will average 40+ mpg in one :pac:

Atomic Pineapple

Another problem is how long will those cars stay in those brackets or how much will they increase in cost over the next 4 - 5 years?

sebastianlieken

Sobanek wrote: »

2013 BMW 750i
4.4L V8, 450hp, 199g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

2008 Audi S4
3.0L V6, 333hp, 190g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Volkswagen Golf GTI
2.0 I4, 220hp, 139g/km (€280 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche Cayman S 3.4 PDK
3.4 H6, 325hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 BMW M135i
3.0 I6, 320hp, 188g/km (€750 p.a. tax)

2013 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.6 PDK
3.6 H6, 350hp, 194g/km (€1200 p.a. tax)

I'd have thought that if you can afford to buy any of those cars listed above... Tax isn't really going to strain your pocket all that much.

Celly Smunt

sebastianlieken wrote: »

I'd have thought that if you can afford to buy any of those cars listed above... Tax isn't really going to strain your pocket all that much.

Finance and credit cards can help idiots who think they can.

Scortho

pmcmahon wrote: »

Chances are bigger cars of this vintage will be gold dust in a few years time with nobody buying.

there'll be plenty of Tdi's and audi diesels though.:(

There's always the uk for us!:) much bigger market, better speckd and looked after better.

sebastianlieken

pmcmahon wrote: »

Finance and credit cards can help idiots who think they can.

And god bless these idiots for buying new cars they can't afford and then putting them on the used car market for us! :pac:

Mellio

Im lost.

How are any of them apart from the golf low in tax?

I am paying €330 p.a. and think thats steep for a 1.4.

As said if you can afford either of them, low tax charges are not a concern.

MetzgerMeister

Mellio wrote: »

Im lost.

How are any of them apart from the golf low in tax?

I am paying €330 p.a. and think thats steep for a 1.4.

As said if you can afford either of them, low tax charges are not a concern.

Read the title - HIGH PERFORMANCE

TestTransmission

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Read the title - HIGH PERFORMANCE

Any idea how much was your car to tax back in 2007?

Ferris

2013 BMW 328i. 149g/km 245bhp and 0-60 in 6s. 390eur p/a tax

min 50k euro however, i'll stick with the gas guzzler.

Sobanek

The point is these cars will become affordable someday (unless no one buys them new lol - but then there's always the UK import option), and they surely will be a lot of fun at a low price.
A friend of mine who works at Bawaria Motors in Poland says the new 750i is well capable of doing 40MPG on the motorway - this is a 450hp car mind you!

Supergurrier

New Seat Leon over the MKVII GTI thanks

Sobanek

Sobanek wrote: »

The point is these cars will become affordable someday (unless no one buys them new lol - but then there's always the UK import option), and they surely will be a lot of fun at a low price.
A friend of mine who works at Bawaria Motors in Poland says the new 750i is well capable of doing 40MPG on the motorway - this is a 450hp car mind you!

You can be sure by the time they become affordable the tax will be through the roof.

Sobanek

cisk wrote: »

You can be sure by the time they become affordable the tax will be through the roof.

We can't predict the future. Hell, with the current situation (i.e. improvement) I don't think that there will be any motor tax hikes after 2014.

(Unemployment finally fell by 0.9% over a year, the unemployment is actually lowest since August 2010)

MetzgerMeister

TestTransmission wrote: »

Any idea how much was your car to tax back in 2007?

Haven't a clue but it was the second highest rate so it would have been around €1300 I think. The tax rates didn't change much year by year back in those days.

Mellio

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

Read the title - HIGH PERFORMANCE

& low tax machines if you also read the FULL title.

They may well be high performance but defo not low tax machines which was my point.

Caliden

Mellio wrote: »

& low tax machines if you also read the FULL title.

They may well be high performance but defo not low tax machines which was my point.

Well I'm paying the same amount of tax for a 90hp tdi golf as a 08+ 3 litre v6 so that's low tax in my book.

Mickiemcfist

Mellio wrote: »

& low tax machines if you also read the FULL title.

They may well be high performance but defo not low tax machines which was my point.

Well your point isnt relevant to the discussion on this thread..Sure why dont we all just get bicycles, theres no tax on them.

This is a discussion on High performance-low tax and in your case, I dont know what you drive, but its a 1.4 & the average 1.4 sold was probably the golf which has 73bhp on the standard model. which, for your tax rate is €4.52 per hp per year

Whereas the BMW 750i in the op has a €1200 tax rate, which is €2.67 per hp per year, which is low tax relative to the performance...which is the point of the thread.

MetzgerMeister

Mellio wrote: »

& low tax machines if you also read the FULL title.

They may well be high performance but defo not low tax machines which was my point.

Yes well you see, normally all high performance cars had high emissions meaning they fell into the >€2100 per year category.

Doesn't c. €700 now seem low tax for the same car due to lowered emissions?

R.O.R

Mickiemcfist wrote: »

Whereas the BMW 750i in the op has a €1200 tax rate, which is €2.67 per hp per year, which is low tax relative to the performance...which is the point of the thread.

You want low € per hp per year figures?
€1.82 for an A6 Bi-Turbo, but the best I can find....

€0.93 on an S60 D5.

H3llR4iser

This is balls, big time. Anybody that can afford to buy and maintain any of the mentioned cars bar perhaps the Golf, unless he/she is the proverbial finance abusing ejit, has deep enough pockets to foot the tax bill too and should be made to, instead of picking on the pensioner who still drives around his 15 years old 1.8 Escort because he/she can't afford to replace it.

tossy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is balls, big time. Anybody that can afford to buy and maintain any of the mentioned cars bar perhaps the Golf, unless he/she is the proverbial finance abusing ejit, has deep enough pockets to foot the tax bill too and should be made to, instead of picking on the pensioner who still drives around his 15 years old 1.8 Escort because he/she can't afford to replace it.

Won't someone think of the pensioners :rolleyes:

Sobanek

H3llR4iser wrote: »

This is balls, big time. Anybody that can afford to buy and maintain any of the mentioned cars bar perhaps the Golf, unless he/she is the proverbial finance abusing ejit, has deep enough pockets to foot the tax bill too and should be made to, instead of picking on the pensioner who still drives around his 15 years old 1.8 Escort because he/she can't afford to replace it.

I don't know about your area, but pensioners in my area mainly drive 08+ Toyota Yarises.

Sobanek

R.O.R wrote: »

You want low € per hp per year figures?
€1.82 for an A6 Bi-Turbo, but the best I can find....

€0.93 on an S60 D5.

The S60 D5 is not a high performance machine... It takes it 7.5 secs to get to 100kph. While it's not a bad result, it's definitely not a high performance machine compared to the:

750i (4.8 secs)
Porsche 911 (4.6 secs)

robbie99

€1200 - band F - that's hardly low tax.

Matt Simis

robbie99 wrote: »

€1200 - band F - that's hardly low tax.

Again, its relative, for the performance and engine size, it is most definitely low tax as um.. pointed out multiple times in this thread.

Supergurrier

Sobanek wrote: »

The S60 D5 is not a high performance machine... It takes it 7.5 secs to get to 100kph. While it's not a bad result, it's definitely not a high performance machine compared to the:

750i (4.8 secs)
Porsche 911 (4.6 secs)

Easily remappable though, just ask your local traffic corps

rocky

We all know post 08 diesels are 'low tax' so they should be excluded from the thread.

Petrols only please!

http://www.carzone.ie/new-cars/lexus/GS/3.5-450H-V6-EXECUTIVE-AUTO-HYBRID/708678720130101

345 bhp, 139 CO2, 280 euro tax, 0.81euro/bhp

robbie99

Matt Simis wrote: »

Again, its relative, for the performance and engine size, it is most definitely low tax as um.. pointed out multiple times in this thread.

So €1200 pa for a 350hp engine (911) is low tax? Nah... The 313hp you get in a 640d is much better value at €390 pa

Matt Simis

robbie99 wrote: »

So €1200 pa for a 350hp engine (911) is low tax? Nah... The 313hp you get in a 640d is much better value at €390 pa

Yes, EUR1200 is low tax as the max bracket is either 1850ish or 2200 ish, 1200 is a lot (lot) less?

Also, you must be trolling with the 640d? Fantastic looking car, but comparing a diesel with a double crutch to a 911 on the merits of "value"?? The diesel is a diesel is a diesel. Cheap to run, expensive to buy and not even close to the fun factor. Neither car is cheap enough to buy to make the tax saving even remotely relevant.. all you are left with is a Diesel dressed as a GT?

The 640i is 320bhp and only EUR750 to tax btw.

Sobanek

The diesel was always made to be economical. Sorry, but I'd rather rev the sh.t out of the 911 rather than hear the 4500 rpm diesel grunt. I like diesels for their torque, but not for performance and smoothness - the 640d will never be as smooth as the 640i.

Besides - not everyone is poor in this country. I consider myself the lower-end class, but still wouldn't have a problem saving money for a year or two and then getting a loan to get myself a brand new M135i.

And if not new - you'll be able to get the 911 half price in three years time or so.

PS. I do agree - diesel is the way to go these days, decent performance, good economy, very low tax, but the diesel lacks the electric response you get from a petrol car.

TL;DR - diesels good for economy, they're the smart choice these days, but not fun enough.