Playing out of position

Boom__Boom

This began as a post on the U21 thread but it got out of hand on the topic of playing out of position.

Personally I'd be a big fan of rotating players between positions to develop their all-around game in training games.

* having defenders play in goals on occasion - understand how to help a keeper with high balls, how often do you see a forward go around a keeper and a defender on the line displaying zero goal-keeping ability - not making any effort to narrow the angles. also having defenders play in the forwards to get a better understanding of forward play and how to defend against it plus improving their shooting ability for when they do get in shooting situations.

* having midfielders play in the forwards - understand why the quality of ball coming in to forwards is such a key factor - the difference between balls just booted in high in the direction of the goal posts versus balls played in versus high balls played in so as to give forwards the best chance to field it versus balls played fast and low at an angle into the chest of a forward.

* having forwards playing as defenders - to improve their tackling/defending ability & what positions to take as a a forward when defending from the front. Defending isn't just about tackling its about positioning off the ball as well. If you are a forward and have an understanding of what a defender is doing and why they are doing it, it is far easier to understand where, when and how to move.

* having a keeper play midfield - develop an understanding of kick-outs and their importance. also make the lazy bastards do some running as opposed to standing around doing nothing all game

Haven't been playing in a few years now but out of interest how common is this [playing out of position] 1) in senior training 2) at various underage levels.

Anyone any thoughts on the idea?

rebel girl 15

I've rotated between the forward line and in goals the last number of years - and being in goals gives you a good idea of how you should try to score in a game, and being a forward, you know which balls a keeper hates, and how best to get around them.

Happens to be a number of players playing out of recognised position such as Darren McCarthy, Cork subkeeper plays midfield or in the forwards for his club, Nicky Quaid the Limerick keeper plays centre back for his club. I think the Wexford keeper Eanna Martin started on the Wexford team outfield before ending up playing in goals

Connorzee

How many games would you have to try these kind of things out, besides the odd challenge game, which would be used to fine tune stuff for championship. Unless you use training games? Its a good idea though.

Thinkstoomuch

Anthony Nash current Cork GK has played out the field for Kanturk.
Adrian Ronan played in Goals KK as a minor but won an allireland for KK against Cork in 92 as a forward.
Joes brother Ollie was a forward for Galway converted to a an all star cb.
Brian Whelan went from half back to Full Forward dying with a flu and got around 1-5 against KK in 98 all ireland final to win it for ye.
Eoin Kelly im sure played in goal for tippeary at minor or was sub goalie.
Eugene Cloonan played goal for galway underage and was a full forward by trade.
Fergal Mccormack was a defender where he played wing back,then midfield partner for the Great Frank Cummins son Alan who was not a patch on the father,and then CF on the all ireland winning team of 99.
Paul shelly a tank of a full back played full forward in 2000 munster final against the rock.The earth shook when they collided.
The superb John Caroll was wing back tirner half forward for tippereary.
Brian Cococran,all star corner back 92,all star CB 99,and all star full forward.
Would have played full back for Cork Minor footballers i think in 91.
Ken Mcgrath played CF for Waterford and then CB.One of the finest players ever not to win all ireland.
Ciaran O Sullivan all star win back for Cork in the later 90's who played Centre forward.One of the most stylish wings back ever not to win Sam.
Eoin Brosnan forward for Kerry at CB last year.
Ghraham Geraghty Meath a CB turned full forward that won Meath the all ireland in 99 and was superb against Sean Og Halpin.
Declan Darcy CB and captained Leitrim in 94 or 95 to a Connaught title and then play CF for Dublin.
TJ Ryan played Full Back and Full Forward for Limerick Hurlers.
Liam Rushe a Forward playing CB for Dublin hurlers.
The list could go on and on.
It is a good idea to mix and match if the players have the talents to do it and ot strenghtens a team as a whole but you got be careful you dont have players that are Jack of all trades and Masters of none.

Connorzee

I'll add Tommy Walsh to that list, the man could've won an all star in any position 2-15 a few years ago. Also Paudie Sullivan played minor in Goals the first year.

Boom__Boom

Been thinking about it a bit more and it would probably make far more sense for underage teams when players are learning the game.

Although as against that would probably do no harm on occasion for senior teams as a method of freshening up training games/adding some novelty. It might throw up some guy who works out playing better in his new position. I get the feeling in the vast majority of clubs once you get assigned a position as a young lad you kinda end up stuck there for life.

Does anyone involved in underage coaching know if there is any mention of it in any coaching manuals?

rpurfield

at underage without a doubt especially at u10-u14 when lads are adaptable, as it was done to me underage, i started out corner back then wing back and went into corner forward.i actually had a text off a mate tonight who was out playing, he plays forward all the time but due to a last minute injury in the warm up was moved to wing back and couldnt adapt to it and was taken off after 20 minutes. just sorta adds to the point im making that its probably harder for an adult to change around.

Thinkstoomuch

Connorzee wrote: »

I'll add Tommy Walsh to that list, the man could've won an all star in any position 2-15 a few years ago. Also Paudie Sullivan played minor in Goals the first year.

Pebbles also played minor hurling for Cork at half back.
Killan O Connor current Cork minor hurler full back but Centre forward on the football team.
Colm Spillane Cork minor full back and on the senior team,played Centre forward for castlelyons.
Up to the intermediate football final in Cork Ciaran Sheehan played a lot at CB for Eire og but then went to midfield for the final.
Mcloughlin midfielder Cork Hurling,centre back for CIT.
Paul O Flynn on the Cork Senior Football panel in 2010 played at full forward for Cork U21 in 2007 I think in a Munster final in the Gaelic Grounds , then half forward for the seniors but Centre back for Ballyclough I think.
Kissane played as a half forward under Morgan I think.
Miskella a back played as a forward at club level.
Current U21 corner back alan cronin has played for nemo as a forward.
Derek Kavanagh played midfield and full back for club and County.

Thinkstoomuch

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Been thinking about it a bit more and it would probably make far more sense for underage teams when players are learning the game.

Although as against that would probably do no harm on occasion for senior teams as a method of freshening up training games/adding some novelty. It might throw up some guy who works out playing better in his new position. I get the feeling in the vast majority of clubs once you get assigned a position as a young lad you kinda end up stuck there for life.

Does anyone involved in underage coaching know if there is any mention of it in any coaching manuals?

At club level you will get away with it but at senior intercounty you got to be very careful you don't ruin a player.
Classic example,Pa Cronin who was no where near a CB played in two league games for Cork,got destroyed and affected his confidence for the next two games.
Seamus Hickey is doing the opposite positions with Limerick and seems to be suffering.
Sum players are versatile and just excellent readers of the game,you could play in any position.Briege Corkery in Cork ladies Gaa another example. But Some players though its horses for Courses is the best motto.
Brian Dooher of Tyrone would could have played half back and won an all star if they wanted him there.He was so talented.

rebel girl 15

Boom__Boom wrote: »

Been thinking about it a bit more and it would probably make far more sense for underage teams when players are learning the game.

Although as against that would probably do no harm on occasion for senior teams as a method of freshening up training games/adding some novelty. It might throw up some guy who works out playing better in his new position. I get the feeling in the vast majority of clubs once you get assigned a position as a young lad you kinda end up stuck there for life.

Does anyone involved in underage coaching know if there is any mention of it in any coaching manuals?

I'm pretty sure there is a rule within the go games whereby players must be rotated.

I think footballers have to be more versatile than hurlers, given the way the modern game is going, where you could have half backs up in the full forward line, who need to be able to shoot.

In the ladies game, I'd disagree with Briege - has nearly always played half back. Deidre O Reilly and Ger O Flynn would be good examples, both played All Ireland finals in the forward line, Ger has ended up as a half back, Deidre as a full back/corner back.

Thinkstoomuch

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure there is a rule within the go games whereby players must be rotated.

I think footballers have to be more versatile than hurlers, given the way the modern game is going, where you could have half backs up in the full forward line, who need to be able to shoot.

In the ladies game, I'd disagree with Briege - has nearly always played half back. Deidre O Reilly and Ger O Flynn would be good examples, both played All Ireland finals in the forward line, Ger has ended up as a half back, Deidre as a full back/corner back.

My apologises if I am wrong but i thought Briege played in the forwards at Camoige or Football? at some stage for Cork

rebel girl 15

Sorry, with the camogie she was named at full forward a few times, but played like a third midfielder iirc. Football she was always right half back, but could pop up in any position

nice_guy80

definitely for developing players, changing positions can develop their decision making and spacial awareness

this needs to be done from under 8 up to under 21. after that most skills are ingrained.

nothing worse than to see an under 10 player labelled as a full back just because he/she is good there and their fathers player there...


however, changing players from forwards to backs can develop other habits such as tackling, tracking back, maintaining possession - once you see how hard the other set of players on the team have to work to get hold of the ball

davegrohl48

Agree with OP.
Especially the point about defenders playing in goals. A good exercise for that is in a Goal shooting drill put a single member of the full backline in with the goalkeeper. For a match situation where they might end up back on the line.
Another one is sending in a high ball to the keeper and he has to claim and handpass to the full/corner back. In general getting goalie/full backline working as one unit to prevent goals. That line is more about preventing goals as a priority.
For goal prevention as well being aware of your position relative to the goalkeeper.

Kerrydude1981

Bryan Sheehan played in goals for the Kerry minors for two years and ended up playing in the forwards in his last year with them

Thinkstoomuch

Kevin Hynes current Full Back in hurling ,won minor and U21 all irelands at Centre Forward for Galway.

nice_guy80

Gaelic Football Sevens is a great way to develop players to play in more positions

If you had enough players in the club from age 17+ then you could make 4/5 teams and run a mini league on Friday or Saturday evenings (instead of training)

Boom__Boom

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Gaelic Football Sevens is a great way to develop players to play in more positions

If you had enough players in the club from age 17+ then you could make 4/5 teams and run a mini league on Friday or Saturday evenings (instead of training)

Not a bad idea at all.

I know positions don't mean quite as much in sevens but I'd imagine it would still be a fairly useful way to broaden a player's positional experience somewhat.