15min break for 7/8 hour shifts?(PIC OF NOTE FROM EMPLOYER TO ALL EMPLOYEES)

PaurGasm

I study a module called Employment Law and was shocked to see the how my boss was blatantly ignoring the Working Time Act...I'm not going to go into the details of the Act but I know it is:

Break Time

---

Hours worked
15mins

---

4hrs
30mins

---

6hrs

I just need conformation that this "memo" left by my employer is clearly breaking the law as ALL staff work at least 7 or 8 hour shifts!

CIARAN_BOYLE

PaurGasm wrote: »

I study a module called Employment Law and was shocked to see the how my boss was blatantly ignoring the Working Time Act...I'm not going to go into the details of the Act but I know it is:

Break Time

---

Hours worked
15mins

---

4hrs
30mins

---

6hrs

I just need conformation that this "memo" left by my employer is clearly breaking the law as ALL staff work at least 7 or 8 hour shifts!

are you allowed more than one tee break during the day? Or is there a separately scheduled lunch break?

ABajaninCork

The spelling's a bit Stratford at Bow. Aloud should read allowed! :pac:

Doom

Try here...
http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/informationforemployers/workinghours/

MIRMIR82

PaurGasm wrote: »

I study a module called Employment Law and was shocked to see the how my boss was blatantly ignoring the Working Time Act...I'm not going to go into the details of the Act but I know it is:

Break Time

---

Hours worked
15mins

---

4hrs
30mins

---

6hrs

I just need conformation that this "memo" left by my employer is clearly breaking the law as ALL staff work at least 7 or 8 hour shifts!

I think your employer may be ok, if you get your 15 min break say at 1o'clock after working 4 hours, you technically won't be working another 4 hours. You'll be working 3hrs 45mins after your break! Not sure though!!

PaurGasm

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

are you allowed more than one tee break during the day? Or is there a separately scheduled lunch break?

Just one 15min tea break...Shouldn't it be 30min break since I am working more than 6 hours?

dzer2

PaurGasm wrote: »

Just one 15min tea break...Shouldn't it be 30min break since I am working more than 6 hours?

Are you clocking in and do you clock out at tea time?

hyperborean

It looks like your employer is saying that the allocated 15 minute break is being abused by workers in that they are extending it beyond the 15 minutes? And the memo is advising the staff that future abuse of this allocated period will be dealt with.

PaurGasm

dzer2 wrote: »

Are you clocking in and do you clock out at tea time?

No...just take a 15 min break at a designated time!

PaurGasm

hyperborean wrote: »

It looks like your employer is saying that the allocated 15 minute break is being abused by workers in that they are extending it beyond the 15 minutes? And the memo is advising the staff that future abuse of this allocated period will be dealt with.

Yes you see that's the problem. Employees, including myself after studying Emp Law, think that we are entitled to more than just one 15 min break for working 7/8 hours. So employees start takin 20-25 min breaks trying to exercise their rights but then this memo appears...
I am still confused as to how long we should be getting :S

PaurGasm

hyperborean wrote: »

It looks like your employer is saying that the allocated 15 minute break is being abused by workers in that they are extending it beyond the 15 minutes? And the memo is advising the staff that future abuse of this allocated period will be dealt with.

Yes you see that's the problem. Employees, including myself after studying Emp Law, think that we are entitled to more than just one 15 min break for working 7/8 hours. So employees start takin 20-25 min breaks trying to exercise their rights but then this memo appears...
I am still confused as to how long we should be getting :S

lkionm

You get 15 minutes paid for working 4.5 hours.
You get 30 minutes (15 paid,15 unpaid) when you work (more) 6 hours.
1 hour for doing 8 or 9. cant remember.

I had a lovely fight with my head office about this. You basically cant work more than 4 hours and not get a break is the law.

H3llR4iser

PaurGasm wrote: »

I study a module called Employment Law and was shocked to see the how my boss was blatantly ignoring the Working Time Act...I'm not going to go into the details of the Act but I know it is:

Break Time

---

Hours worked
15mins

---

4hrs
30mins

---

6hrs

I just need conformation that this "memo" left by my employer is clearly breaking the law as ALL staff work at least 7 or 8 hour shifts!

The regulation is sometimes subject of different interpretations; The most commonly accepted one is that is not legal to work X hours without a minimum break of Y minutes.

So, it would be more or less "you need to take a minimum break of 15 minutes if your shift is up to 4 hours; a minimum of 30 minutes for shifts up to 6 hours" and so on.

Bear in mind that many companies include lunch break in the break time.

Taken care of the regulations stuff, let's come to the personal matter: you can discuss that note with your boss, but rest assured that nothing will come of it, he/she will stay on his/her position and chances are that you will become the "black sheep" or the "revolutionary".

As a matter of fact, if I was you I'd immediately hit the market with CVs and look for a new job: the whole tone of that note is disturbing; It tries to stay civilized with "it has been brought to our attention..." and ends, at least the bit we can see, with a patronizing, uneducated, disrespectful, medieval "I do not want to see...". It reads like the ramblings of somebody obsessed with the idea that his/her employees are always up to no good, that they are out to steal/doss/feck him/her up the arse, and ultimately thinks he/she owns the people working in the company. The horrid spelling is just the icing on the cake.

Sorry for the negativity, but I worked for a few arsehole bosses too many over the last two decades, and this letter makes my "idiotic boss sense" tingle...

hyperborean

PaurGasm wrote: »

Yes you see that's the problem. Employees, including myself after studying Emp Law, think that we are entitled to more than just one 15 min break for working 7/8 hours. So employees start takin 20-25 min breaks trying to exercise their rights but then this memo appears...
I am still confused as to how long we should be getting :S

But that's not what the Memo said?

The memo says nothing about working 7/8 hours with a 15 minute break!

If you want to start a thread about the legality of an 8 hour shift were the employer only provides 15 minute break I would be gladly give you some advise on dealing with management but your thread is not about that!

read your own OP, the Memo is perfectly fine,

PaurGasm

hyperborean wrote: »

If you want to start a thread about the legality of an 8 hour shift were the employer only provides 15 minute break

I see where your coming from but that is exactly what the memo is about. The thing is we only get ONE 15 break for the 8 hours. I don't mean to shout that but I just want to get that point across. The memo is talking about these 7/8 hour shifts as they are the only shifts available in the business. I hope you understand that your quote above is exactly what I am talking about!

lkionm

PaurGasm wrote: »

I see where your coming from but that is exactly what the memo is about. The thing is we only get ONE 15 break for the 8 hours. I don't mean to shout that but I just want to get that point across. The memo is talking about these 7/8 hour shifts as they are the only shifts available in the business. I hope you understand that your quote above is exactly what I am talking about!

You should be getting half an hour for that by law. just google citizens information and its easy enough to navigate.

PaurGasm

lkionm wrote: »

You should be getting half an hour for that by law. just google citizens information and its easy enough to navigate.

Thank You! This was all i needed ! haha

rugbyman

I don't think you should ha ha on this. I suspect you are wrong. I think that after four hours you have your lunch break,paid or unpaid ,depends on case, this includes your 15 mins.when you restart after 4h.15 you do 3.h.45 to end of shift.. regards R

dzer2

rugbyman wrote: »

I don't think you should ha ha on this. I suspect you are wrong. I think that after four hours you have your lunch break,paid or unpaid ,depends on case, this includes your 15 mins.when you restart after 4h.15 you do 3.h.45 to end of shift.. regards R

Quite wrong he is not clocking off for the break therefore he is working over 4 hrs which means he should be getting 30minute break.

PaurGasm

dzer2 wrote: »

Quite wrong he is not clocking off for the break therefore he is working over 4 hrs which means he should be getting 30minute break.

I see your point. So the real question now is whether my 15min break within the 8hour shift is paid or unpaid? If its paid then I am only entitled to 15min/8hrs, but if it is unpaid then I am entitled to 30mins/8hrs?

Have I just over complicated it?:S

Damn Employment Law, why are you so confusing!

Pawwed Rig

The link in Dooms post is correct.

lkionm

rugbyman wrote: »

I don't think you should ha ha on this. I suspect you are wrong. I think that after four hours you have your lunch break,paid or unpaid ,depends on case, this includes your 15 mins.when you restart after 4h.15 you do 3.h.45 to end of shift.. regards R

This is exactly what my company thought but its one continuous shift of 8 hours so its half hour break regardless if it is broken into to 4 hour shifts because of the break.

Bring in the citizens information thing to whomever is in charge and tell them. they might give you extra breaks.

hyperborean

PaurGasm wrote: »

I see where your coming from but that is exactly what the memo is about. The thing is we only get ONE 15 break for the 8 hours. I don't mean to shout that but I just want to get that point across. The memo is talking about these 7/8 hour shifts as they are the only shifts available in the business. I hope you understand that your quote above is exactly what I am talking about!

Thats not what you asked in the OP,

PaurGasm wrote: »

I study a module called Employment Law and was shocked to see the how my boss was blatantly ignoring the Working Time Act...I'm not going to go into the details of the Act but I know it is:

Break Time

---

Hours worked
15mins

---

4hrs
30mins

---

6hrs

I just need conformation that this "memo" left by my employer is clearly breaking the law as ALL staff work at least 7 or 8 hour shifts!

the memo says nothing about working only 15 minutes in a 8 hour shift. therefore its perfectly fine,

Your probably not the best person to approach the management as you don't seem to understand even the most basic level of discussion,

What does your contract of employment say about working hours?

PaurGasm

hyperborean wrote: »

Thats not what you asked in the OP,



the memo says nothing about working only 15 minutes in a 8 hour shift. therefore its perfectly fine,

Your probably not the best person to approach the management as you don't seem to understand even the most basic level of discussion,

What does your contract of employment say about working hours?

I see where your coming from now...So the memo itself is perfectly fine then. Have not see my contract in about 8 years since I was about 14 when I first signed it.

hyperborean

PaurGasm wrote: »

I see where your coming from now...So the memo itself is perfectly fine then. Have not see my contract in about 8 years since I was about 14 when I first signed it.

You need to speak to a NERA, working 8 hours with only a 15 minute break allocated and signing contracts with minors is something they would like to hear about.

http://www.employmentrights.ie/en/

Doom

Is this what your trying to say:
7.5hrs work + 0.5 hrs break = 8hrs work shift.

PaurGasm

Doom wrote: »

Is this what your trying to say:
7.5hrs work + 0.5 hrs break = 8hrs work shift.

Not really, Its more like 7h 45m work with a 15 min break in total in which the shift is split into 4h work-15min break-3h 45min work-finish shift

ezra_pound

rugbyman wrote: »

I don't think you should ha ha on this. I suspect you are wrong. I think that after four hours you have your lunch break,paid or unpaid ,depends on case, this includes your 15 mins.when you restart after 4h.15 you do 3.h.45 to end of shift.. regards R

Wrong!
Go read legislation. Its quite clear on this.

12.—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).

Clearly entitlement to half hour including initial fifteen min break.

ezra_pound

PaurGasm wrote: »

Not really, Its more like 7h 45m work with a 15 min break in total in which the shift is split into 4h work-15min break-3h 45min work-finish shift

Once work time exceeds 6 hours then entitlement is half hour. Irrelevant if 7h45 or 8 hours worked.

PaurGasm

ezra_pound wrote: »

Once work time exceeds 6 hours then entitlement is half hour. Irrelevant if 7h45 or 8 hours worked.

So as my total work time within that shift exceeds 6 hours, I am entitled to a 30mi break instead of a 15min one?

Thats what I thought!

PhilMcGee

Can they really just deduct time from your holidays as punishment?

Doom

PhilMcGee wrote: »

Can they really just deduct time from your holidays as punishment?

No your holiday's are legally protected.

PhilMcGee

Doom wrote: »

No your holiday's are legally protected.

Well then the note is really not worth the paper its written on.

ezra_pound

PaurGasm wrote: »

So as my total work time within that shift exceeds 6 hours, I am entitled to a 30mi break instead of a 15min one?

Thats what I thought!

Thas's what the legislation says!

seamus

ezra_pound wrote: »

Wrong!
Go read legislation. Its quite clear on this.

12.—(1) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 4 hours and 30 minutes without allowing him or her a break of at least 15 minutes.(2) An employer shall not require an employee to work for a period of more than 6 hours without allowing him or her a break of at least 30 minutes; such a break may include the break referred to in subsection (1).

Clearly entitlement to half hour including initial fifteen min break.

Actually "clear" isn't a word I'd use there. The law could be interpreted to read that you can take 15 minutes after 4.5 hours worked or you can continue working another 90 minutes and then take 30 minutes instead.

Even the NERA site isn't clear on it. However citizensinformation gives a clear example of it, and the clock doesn't "reset" if you take a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours.

So it would certainly seem that one the face of it, this employer is in breach of the law if employees are not being allowed more than 15 minutes for an 8-hour shift.

However, the wording on the note seems pretty specific - "tea break". Anywhere I've worked that's had a mid-shift "tea break" has always been 15 minutes distinct from "lunch break". I've never seen an employer refer to the main break as a "tea break", it's always called lunch or dinner in my experience.

Maybe the note has been misinterpreted by someone?

PaurGasm

seamus wrote: »

However, the wording on the note seems pretty specific - "tea break". Anywhere I've worked that's had a mid-shift "tea break" has always been 15 minutes distinct from "lunch break". I've never seen an employer refer to the main break as a "tea break", it's always called lunch or dinner in my experience.

Maybe the note has been misinterpreted by someone?

On a side note, our "tea break" is considered as the only break we get during the day!

seamus

If that's the case, then I would contact NERA for advice on how to proceed. You don't want to be the guy who raises a fuss about this and gets fired for his trouble. NERA may contact your employer on your behalf without mentioning names.

ezra_pound

seamus wrote: »

Actually "clear" isn't a word I'd use there. The law could be interpreted to read that you can take 15 minutes after 4.5 hours worked or you can continue working another 90 minutes and then take 30 minutes instead.

Even the NERA site isn't clear on it. However citizensinformation gives a clear example of it, and the clock doesn't "reset" if you take a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours.

So it would certainly seem that one the face of it, this employer is in breach of the law if employees are not being allowed more than 15 minutes for an 8-hour shift.

However, the wording on the note seems pretty specific - "tea break". Anywhere I've worked that's had a mid-shift "tea break" has always been 15 minutes distinct from "lunch break". I've never seen an employer refer to the main break as a "tea break", it's always called lunch or dinner in my experience.

Maybe the note has been misinterpreted by someone?

I'm sorry but that section of the legislation is quite clear that the clock is not reset by the first break. Part 2 clarifies this.

The employer and employees can call the break anything they want - "r & r stoppage", zee times", "fun time". The fact is that its a break and if you work for six hours it must be at least half an hour long, with the option of two fifteen min breaks minimum.

rugbyman

I am intriguied by these replies / Ezra seems ure of his bits.

Am I wrong here
Employee starts at 0900 works till 1300 without a break. gets one hour off unpaid for a lunch break(or other name) re starts at 1400 ,finishes at 1800.
no paid tea breaks! time worked 8 hours

kenyard

the employee works 8 hours. so say from 9:00 - 17:00.

this is 8 consecutive hours.

entitlements for working >6 hours in this case are 1x 15 minute paid break (considered working time) and 1x 15 minute unpaid break (not considered working time).

you are supposed to get a break after 4.5 hours of working. so in this case break would be at 13.30.
The 2x 15 minute breaks would be combined in this instance (see here). so you would return to work at 14:00 until 17:00

because one break is unpaid total work hours are 7.45. so you will get an additional break of 15 minutes but you will lose 15 minutes of pay also.

as has been suggested above, I would suggest you contact NERA with a typical week of shifts of information to confirm the above and get them to approach your employer because I could see them being a person who will give you your marching orders instead of following the law - which would probably entitle you to sue, but can be messy and awkward to prove and you would only just get reinstated with backpay at best in court,until he can find a loophole to fire you legally anyway.

ezra_pound

Why would one break be paid and the other not ? Surely it is at the discretion of the employer whether or not beaks are paid. One can only presume that this stingey man would not pay either break.

lkionm

ezra_pound wrote: »

Why would one break be paid and the other not ? Surely it is at the discretion of the employer whether or not beaks are paid. One can only presume that this stingey man would not pay either break.

It's the law, some might pay for all of it and most don't like to pay for people to have a coffee.

You can break your half an hour break into two 15 minutes if you like so one is paid and the other is not, just .25 taken from your total working hours so working 8 hours gets turned into 7.75 paid hours when the payroll is being sent off.

ezra_pound

lkionm wrote: »

It's the law, some might pay for all of it and most don't like to pay for people to have a coffee.

You can break your half an hour break into two 15 minutes if you like so one is paid and the other is not, just .25 taken from your total working hours so working 8 hours gets turned into 7.75 paid hours when the payroll is being sent off.

Where does the law say that at least 15 minutes must be paid? That's my question.

lkionm

ezra_pound wrote: »

Where does the law say that at least 15 minutes must be paid? That's my question.

Actually it's not law to pay for 15, my bad.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html?tab=related

ezra_pound

lkionm wrote: »

It's the law, some might pay for all of it and most don't like to pay for people to have a coffee.

You can break your half an hour break into two 15 minutes if you like so one is paid and the other is not, just .25 taken from your total working hours so working 8 hours gets turned into 7.75 paid hours when the payroll is being sent off.

While nera and citizens information both state that payment is not necessary, the principal act does not mention break pay at all. Where does the law prescribe this?

ezra_pound

kenyard wrote: »

the employee works 8 hours. so say from 9:00 - 17:00.

this is 8 consecutive hours.

entitlements for working >6 hours in this case are 1x 15 minute paid break (considered working time) and 1x 15 minute unpaid break (not considered working time).

you are supposed to get a break after 4.5 hours of working. so in this case break would be at 13.30.
The 2x 15 minute breaks would be combined in this instance (see here). so you would return to work at 14:00 until 17:00

because one break is unpaid total work hours are 7.45. so you will get an additional break of 15 minutes but you will lose 15 minutes of pay also.

as has been suggested above, I would suggest you contact NERA with a typical week of shifts of information to confirm the above and get them to approach your employer because I could see them being a person who will give you your marching orders instead of following the law - which would probably entitle you to sue, but can be messy and awkward to prove and you would only just get reinstated with backpay at best in court,until he can find a loophole to fire you legally anyway.

Is this post a summary of facts already established in thisthread with a made up bit about 15 minutes paid break thrown in for good measure?

ezra_pound

lkionm wrote: »

Actually it's not law to pay for 15, my bad.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/hours_of_work/rest_periods_and_breaks.html?tab=related

No problem. Good to classify the facts!