Connecting two houses, 500M apart, no LOS

brimur69

Hi guys,

I put this in the Wireless sub-forum but without LOS it was a no go so wanted to post it here in case there were some good suggestions. I'm looking for a solution to network my house with a friend down the road, just under 500m. Unfortunately a new house is being built right in our line of sight so that is the issue with wireless. There are potentially three lines of trees in the way but large gaps between them. I've attached a pic of the location showing the distance and house that will be in the way in a year or so. I appreciate any suggestions.

I'm assuming the only way to go is fibre so I would like to know what components I would need and where I could buy them so I can calculate the cost.

Thanks

http://i.imgur.com/QEhJ0Av.jpg

PogMoThoin

You were told before, without finding a line of sight you have no hope. If you both see the house in the middle you will need to use that as the centre of your network if you want to use wireless

Xantia

If ye are both on the same ESB/Mains transformer then you could try powerline adaptors but I am not sure if they go that far?

PogMoThoin

Xantia wrote: »

If ye are both on the same ESB/Mains transformer then you could try powerline adaptors but I am not sure if they go that far?

Heh????

Powerline adapters are for use on the electrical circuit inside your house to connect from room to room, not between houses.

Xantia

There is nothing stopping the 'signal' from going outside the house.
It used to work for example with Intercoms.
You would plug the Intercom into the mains in a house then next door (feeding off the same mains transformer) you plugged in the other unit. You could then talk and signal to one another.
There is no reason other than the one above and distance why it would not work.

Xantia

Here is an extract from http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwan/lanwan-basics/31585-smallnetbuilders-powerline-faq

11. How far do powerline networks reach?

It's hard to find a good answer to this. One thing that is a given is that powerline networks won't work across transformers. This usually prevents your neighbor's powerline network from connecting to yours. But in apartment buildings there is definitely a chance of your network reaching beyond your unit. So you should take the steps outlined in Question 13 to ensure your network is private.

As for distance within your home, some sources quote 300 meters, while others say 200. NETGEAR's powerline FAQ takes an area approach and quotes "5000 square feet or less".

In general powerline networking should work in a typical home or apartment and might even work to provide Ethernet to a separate garage or outbuilding, if the distance isn't too far and it is on the same electric service.

Xantia

Also with external antennae and high powered radios you could achieve 'near line of sight'
This is possible with Alvarion radios but you do need the equipment.
If you have any kit lying around to try it then it might work with a passive reflector if both houses could see that or if you could set one up.
Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-line-of-sight_propagation

Dardania

Just to note with powerline, it's dependant on being on the same phase (R, S or T) that your friend is on, otherwise no connection. Also, I would wonder if the fact we have a neutralising link to earth in Ireland might cause range difficulties...this might be a suck it and see option...

I networked a somewhat similar set of buildings about 10 years ago using RDSL, using a copper pair between them...however this was on private land, whereas I would suspect the only copper between you and your friend is eircoms? You could ask their local technician if they'd be willing to give you a private circuit (highly unlikely...)

brimur69

Thanks for the comments guys. I have a few Devolo Homeplugs but the range is very limited. This could be due to the wiring being about 50 years old! Even within my house I only get 12Mbit between one end of the house and the other. Still better than the 1Mbit I get from the wireless though, thanks to solid concrete walls. I took one out to the barn but it did not pickup anything so its not going to work 500m away.

As I mentioned I know wireless is out because there is no line of sight so I am looking at the possibility of fibre. I have found it surprisingly hard to find information on linking our two house with fibre through the fields or maybe running the fibre along the telephone poles. And then how to terminate it at each of our houses. So if anyone has any info in this area I'd be grateful to hear about it.

gctest50

A little bit to get you going :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZnyEGPJv3w

ED E

Would you not just make your own LOS? As in put in two small poles and put the dishes on them, looks like 20-30ft from the house on each end would take you out of the line of the new house?

unnameduser

From the pic attached, the house in the center is splat in the way. DOH!

If both A and B locations had enough space they might both be able to put up directional Wifi antennas north of their buildings on their land that would have enough of a fresnel zone to get good LOS.

I can't comment on earlier suggestions of powerline adaptors because I simply don't know enough about them. I don't mix electrics and network together as a rule of thumb.

More info of the secondary site on the left would be useful. It looks small. Is it a small house, cottage, farmyard or what?? Do you want internet there for browsing, calfing cameras, or what!?

Best of luck!

BigEejit

some variants of fibre would do it ....but the cable would cost a fortune. You will not be able to buy a reel of it and terminate it with LC connectors yourself....

If you can both see the building in the middle then a pole sticking up with a microtik box on the end of it at each end should see over it.

edanto

I think the best solution comes down to what you need the connection for long-term. Could you elaborate on that a bit more? I'll make a recommendation based on what you've posted so far.

If you need to extend a LAN to your friends house so that you can share some network files, or if you want to share a good broadband connection at one property with your friend at another, then a good option would be to use a special wireless bridge that can handle obstructions.

<snip - a device from the US that might not be approved for use here>

Those devices can take POE on a 60m run, so on the East end of the connection, you might want to mount it on the southern tip of the barn, and on the West end, at the southern side of that house, thus creating the bridge in front of the new house. The more direct the line, the better this device will work.

Technically, it's possible to run a cable, and use a series of POE cat5 extenders, but I wouldn't recommend it. It would also come in a lot more expensive than the bridge above.

If it's only temporary, or if you don't need a super fast connection between the two points (and they both have internet connection), is there anything wrong with setting up a VPN?

What is it that you'd like to do, long-term?

Alun

edanto wrote: »

http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/900-mhz-wireless-bridge-link.php

Wouldn't that interfere with the GSM 900 frequency range?

edanto

/facepalm - I didn't check that it was approved for use here in Ireland, or what it might interfere with.

So much for my advice on this one! Sorry about that.

Thanks Alun.