The fate of the journeyman pro

Anatom

I'm sure I'm probably being unfair to him by calling him a "journeyman pro", but I was struck by an interview in yesterday's Examiner with Peter Lawrie.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/lawrie-feeling-the-pinch-228680.html

Basically, he was saying that in order to survive on the current European tour, you need to finish in the top 20/25. You'll win perhaps €18,000 which will just about cover your expenses and give you a bit of money to live.

It makes you wonder about the attraction of the game if the reality for the 95% of players on tour is that of a daily struggle to survive...

He comes across as a good guy and he's undoubtedly a talented golfer, who says he has absolutely no regrets, but I wouldn't envy him his life on tour...

blue note

Anatom wrote: »

I'm sure I'm probably being unfair to him by calling him a "journeyman pro", but I was struck by an interview in yesterday's Examiner with Peter Lawrie.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/lawrie-feeling-the-pinch-228680.html

Basically, he was saying that in order to survive on the current European tour, you need to finish in the top 20/25. You'll win perhaps €18,000 which will just about cover your expenses and give you a bit of money to live.

It makes you wonder about the attraction of the game if the reality for the 95% of players on tour is that of a daily struggle to survive...

He comes across as a good guy and he's undoubtedly a talented golfer, who says he has absolutely no regrets, but I wouldn't envy him his life on tour...

I imagine the attraction is a combination of getting to travel around the world playing the game you love and the prospect that just maybe you'll get a level better and really make it. I'd certainly give it a go if I could.

FixdePitchmark

blue note wrote: »

I imagine the attraction is a combination of getting to travel around the world playing the game you love and the prospect that just maybe you'll get a level better and really make it. I'd certainly give it a go if I could.

But that is what we think about it on the outside. I've seen interviews with the lads and the novelty of travelling can wear thin. Also, the panic when your game is poor and you have no income and only outgoings.

Peter is a top 50 Race To Dubai player and only made 600,000 euro last year. Great money - but that is very high up the rankings. The point I'm making there is, what is it like for the even larger group below top 60 - 70.

Bit of an eye opener that he would have to finish top 20 to cover expenses. :eek:

Anatom

Yeah, it does look attractive on the face of it, but if you've got a wife and a couple of small children at home, you're going to get tired of all the travelling and being away pretty damn quickly. Even if you don't have family commitments, living out of a suitcase in hotel rooms can't be great.

Obviously they choose to do it, and they do so because they love it, but still...

PARlance

Anatom wrote: »

I'm sure I'm probably being unfair to him by calling him a "journeyman pro", but I was struck by an interview in yesterday's Examiner with Peter Lawrie.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/golf/lawrie-feeling-the-pinch-228680.html

Basically, he was saying that in order to survive on the current European tour, you need to finish in the top 20/25. You'll win perhaps €18,000 which will just about cover your expenses and give you a bit of money to live.

It makes you wonder about the attraction of the game if the reality for the 95% of players on tour is that of a daily struggle to survive...

He comes across as a good guy and he's undoubtedly a talented golfer, who says he has absolutely no regrets, but I wouldn't envy him his life on tour...

I think the article is a bit sensationalist, and it's probably designed that way by the journalist rather than Lawrie, so not having a go at Lawrie at all.
It's amazing how some journalists can make a story out of nothing.

To highlight the Asian events is not a true reflection of their normal events with regards the costs they have to fork out to get there on flights etc. The article seems to give the impression that with a very good finish (Top 20/25) you can still only expect circa €18,000.

Lawrie won €614,629 in 2012 from 26 events
He didn't make the cut in 6 of these.
He had 3 Top 10's from the 20 events that he made the cut in.
There was no Top 3's included in the Top 10 finishes.... so his earnings aren't being skewed by one or two big finishes
I'm not sure if appearance money is paid, outside of earnings, to cover some of the expenses? (I haven't factored it in but I suspect there is some form of appearance fee even for the likes of Lawrie)

On average he earned nearly €24,000 from all 26 events.
From the ones his finished in the money in he averaged earnings of approx €31,000
(I'm trying to link it to the article as it gives the impression that a good money, Top 20/25, finish is 18K)
Not all involve costly flights etc to Asia.

There is no taking into account of sponsorship deals, corporate events etc

It's fair enough for Lawrie to say he's not financially secure at present... but the journalist has run with this. What is financially secure anyway?

The journalist seems to be basing it on the assumption that Lawrie will have no future earnings, no opportunities to earn money after his golfing days are over. Lawrie could potentially win another 5 million before he retires from professional golf, he'll have plenty of earning potential afforded to him after he does retire thanks to his golfing career.

He's averaged earnings of €530,000 a year for the 10 years he's been on the tour, I'm not sure about sponsorship or earnings from corporate gigs and other spin offs but I don't think rounding it up to €600,000 a year is miles off.

I think it's generous enough to say expenses, caddy fees, travel and accommodation etc would be a maximum of €300,000, leaving him €300,000 a year himself.

I would guess that some quite costly bad investments have been made, but that's nothing to do with golf. But yet we have an article based on the financial struggle of the journey man average tour player.

I wouldn't imagine that Lawrie wouldn't be too pleased with overall tone of the article.

Lawrie feeling the pinch is the headline... I think the journalist needs a pinch in fairness.

FixdePitchmark

^^^^^^^^^

Agree AJ - they picked a player too far up the rankings to claim he is struggling.

the only additional point, is his age. Near 40. He was late into making money.

2003 he would have been 29 - He made 422,000 Euro. First year he made any money.

You would need to look at guys from 115 in race to Dubai.

In 2012 115 was 193,000 euro - but played 23 events. Still a nice job - but with all expenses it is a slog at that. They are amazing golfers at that level.

With reducing prize money it is these guys who will feel the pinch.

From what Peter was saying he is still flying first class:)

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But that is what we think about it on the outside. I've seen interviews with the lads and the novelty of travelling can wear thin. Also, the panic when your game is poor and you have no income and only outgoings.

Peter is a top 50 Race To Dubai player and only made 600,000 euro last year. Great money - but that is very high up the rankings. The point I'm making there is, what is it like for the even larger group below top 60 - 70.

Bit of an eye opener that he would have to finish top 20 to cover expenses. :eek:

The average earnings for the lads from 61-100 is €323,287
Most of these lads will play events to suit their earning potentials I'd imagine.
If they're not taking home €150,000 after tax a year then I'd be surprised.

10-15 years on the tour and they should have €2 million in the bank.

They could go fishing for lake balls after that for 30 years and they'd still have a comfortable life.

Monty sells ProV's over on adverts.ie

Derek Zoolander

I'd be interested to know what the tax policy is on winnings - do they have to pay local tax rates on the prize money or is it all accessed on country of residence. Would make a huge difference to take home pay.

PARlance

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

I'd be interested to know what the tax policy is on winnings - do they have to pay local tax rates on the prize money or is it all accessed on country of residence. Would make a huge difference to take home pay.

Some recent changes on taxation of winnings in your non resident tax home, here's some on The Open.

http://www.taxtv.com/the-open-championship-a-taxing-golf-tournament/#.UXEroaKTgSY

I'm not too familiar with all aspects of taxation of sports people to be honest.
I'd imagine they have certain exemptions/allowances/freedom to be more creative over and above the rest of us.
i.e Sponsorship fees, corporate appearances might be put through a management company, which would allow them to pay reduces level of tax (corp tax lower than income) & claim/write off expenses that would not be allowable for income tax etc.

I think Lawrie could avail of finding a low cost tax haven... similar to U2 heading to Holland a few years back.

He would only have to pay Irish tax if he was in the country for more than 183 days each year, I'd say he could get under this threshold and base himself elsewhere if he so wished (not sure if he does or not)

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^

Agree AJ - they picked a player too far up the rankings to claim he is struggling.

the only additional point, is his age. Near 40. He was late into making money.

2003 he would have been 29 - He made 422,000 Euro. First year he made any money.

You would need to look at guys from 115 in race to Dubai.

In 2012 115 was 193,000 euro - but played 23 events. Still a nice job - but with all expenses it is a slog at that. They are amazing golfers at that level.

With reducing prize money it is these guys who will feel the pinch.

From what Peter was saying he is still flying first class:)

Don't get me wrong, I know there are guys on the tour that are struggling.
My gripe was that the article is sensationalist.

The article is about Peter Lawrie, he's not one of these struggling pro's even though the article sets that tone.

cson

Fairly certain that persons deriving their primary income from sports pay shag all tax here compared to a person in business earning a similar amount.

I'd agree with Lawrie saying that his hands are tied to travel first class - I'd be the very same. You have to give yourself the best opportunity at every event.

But yeah, I'd say investments in property/shares have hit him hard and that's why he's claiming he's struggling.

FixdePitchmark

cson wrote: »

Fairly certain that persons deriving their primary income from sports pay shag all tax here compared to a person in business earning a similar amount.

I'd agree with Lawrie saying that his hands are tied to travel first class - I'd be the very same. You have to give yourself the best opportunity at every event.

But yeah, I'd say investments in property/shares have hit him hard and that's why he's claiming he's struggling.

If they are paying less tax - it puts a new spin on this. 100,000 to them is like us earning 200,000.

Derek Zoolander

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If they are paying less tax - it puts a new spin on this. 100,000 to them is like us earning 200,000.

exactly - if his winnngs are effectively take home pay then his definition of comfortable may not be aligned with the general public's

PARlance

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

If they are paying less tax - it puts a new spin on this. 100,000 to them is like us earning 200,000.

Ever wonder why a lot of golfers set up base in Florida? Have a look at it's tax rate compared to other states in the US or Europe.

Mickelson made the error of talking about it recently and got a bit of bad press over it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324039504578261860345831462.html