National Series Points

mirrormatrix

Apologies in advance if this has been posted before.

I'm in my first proper year of racing now after trying out one or two triathlons last year and have planned 6 races for the year to try and see how I do on the NS points series. I think I have just about figured out how the points are calculated for each race and how your best 5 races count towards the overall NS points rankings. I realise that there are a number of threads on the merits/downsides of the current system and don't really want to bring all that up again.

I can see how the points system is motivating for athletes in say the top 5 percent or so, but for those of us like myself who are going to arrive in an hour or so after the top lads, it doesn't seem to have any real benefit. What i'm wondering is, would it be possible in some way to break up the NS points table into different divisions. I know this is currently done by age-group, but there is a WIDE range of abilities in each age group. Would it in some way be possible to have a different class of licence (as in say cycling) and have people of a similar level to you in the same bracket?

I'm not talking about having different races for different classes as this would plainly be impossible to adminster, but it would also be great if you could turn up for a race and have some idea who you were up against. Maybe even different coloured race numbers for the different categories. At the moment I feel the biggest barrier to making this sport accessible for me is the lack of any real feel of competition against others in the races.

Feel free to shoot this down for about a hundred practical reasons, but I just thought i'd throw it out there to see what people think.

catweazle

Its not a bad idea - I would agree as a middle of the packer a national ranking race leaves me with general indifference also. It gives me no motivation to race them.

I would very much doubt the cycling system is the total solution either, I see grumblings over in the cycling forum of ex top bikers coming back to the sort and hoovering up all the A4 competitions. However it is something that is vital in cycling - I would be very nervous entering a bike race at my level - so at least an A4 race I might have some chance of hiding in the pack for a while anyways

But it would be interesting to see how a handicapped tri race would go, although it would leave the top guys at a major disadvantage in the water. I remember laughing at Brownlee and a few others cutting through the weaker swimmers in Abu Dhabi, I would imagine they would have been swam over if it meant losing someones feet. Means more people hitting T1 at the same time too

Certainly in my case you seem most of the same guys at the races you do - I tend to judge myself on how I do against them rather than on time or position

tunney

catweazle wrote: »

Its not a bad idea - I would agree as a middle of the packer a national ranking race leaves me with general indifference also. It gives me no motivation to race them.

I would very much doubt the cycling system is the total solution either, I see grumblings over in the cycling forum of ex top bikers coming back to the sort and hoovering up all the A4 competitions. However it is something that is vital in cycling - I would be very nervous entering a bike race at my level - so at least an A4 race I might have some chance of hiding in the pack for a while anyways

But it would be interesting to see how a handicapped tri race would go, although it would leave the top guys at a major disadvantage in the water. I remember laughing at Brownlee and a few others cutting through the weaker swimmers in Abu Dhabi, I would imagine they would have been swam over if it meant losing someones feet. Means more people hitting T1 at the same time too

Certainly in my case you seem most of the same guys at the races you do - I tend to judge myself on how I do against them rather than on time or position

We could go with a special olympics approach and make everyone a winner?

mirrormatrix

Not a particularly helpful comment Tunney. I'm not saying we should be awarding medals to everyone who turns up or anything, just that it might be an idea to look at ways of giving people who are not up there with the top athletes a chance to achieve something with the NS points series.

I mean, what's the point of the people in TI spending a large amount of time inputting results and working out points for everyone for each race if the points are meaningless to 95 % of the entrants? I guess it's potentially a better metric than timing in comparing your performance between races but it seems like a lot of effort on TI's part for very little gain to the majority of people participating.

The way I see it, triathlon is a great sport with a rapidly increasing interest to the general public. Would it not be a good idea therefore to try and encourage people to go for points and take part in 5 or 6 races per season instead of just doing one or two triathlons and leaving it at that?

tunney

mirrormatrix wrote: »

Not a particularly helpful comment Tunney. I'm not saying we should be awarding medals to everyone who turns up or anything, just that it might be an idea to look at ways of giving people who are not up there with the top athletes a chance to achieve something with the NS points series.

I mean, what's the point of the people in TI spending a large amount of time inputting results and working out points for everyone for each race if the points are meaningless to 95 % of the entrants? I guess it's potentially a better metric than timing in comparing your performance between races but it seems like a lot of effort on TI's part for very little gain to the majority of people participating.

The way I see it, triathlon is a great sport with a rapidly increasing interest to the general public. Would it not be a good idea therefore to try and encourage people to go for points and take part in 5 or 6 races per season instead of just doing one or two triathlons and leaving it at that?

Fast forward to TI Awards Ceremony:

"And 1st place in the Absolutely sh1t category goes to......."

catweazle

tunney wrote: »

We could go with a special olympics approach and make everyone a winner?

Its a different mindset for you Tunney - a few years ago you would have been in the mix in these series rankings- now you are ****e like the rest of us

I see Huff and Puff has been recently upgraded from A3 to A2 in cycling, perhaps if I had something like a category like that to aim at, I might get more involved in the National series

tunney

catweazle wrote: »

Its a different mindset for you Tunney - a few years ago you would have been in the mix in these series rankings- now you are ****e like the rest of us

LOL, would need a "horrifically fat" category.

catweazle wrote: »

I see Huff and Puff has been recently upgraded from A3 to A2 in cycling, perhaps if I had something like a category like that to aim at, I might get more involved in the National series

And there in is an issue.

A4, A3, A2, A1, A+

Five categories. Sh1t and 25 - A4. Sh1t and 37 - A4

Categories per age group? YAWN.
"Hey everyone I won the 45-49 A4 category in Ballygobackwards Sprint"

a) people complaining about "hey where is my prize? I won my category?"
b) Its not in keeping with the international norms
c) seriously?

Now given how things are going I may support a clydesdale and athena section * Like they do in the states


*(Obviously joke - "I won the fat b@stards 30-34 category" ah no no)

longshank

tunney wrote: »

LOL, would need a "horrifically fat" category.



And there in is an issue.

A4, A3, A2, A1, A+

Five categories. Sh1t and 25 - A4. Sh1t and 37 - A4

Categories per age group? YAWN.
"Hey everyone I won the 45-49 A4 category in Ballygobackwards Sprint"

a) people complaining about "hey where is my prize? I won my category?"
b) Its not in keeping with the international norms
c) seriously?

Now given how things are going I may support a clydesdale and athena section * Like they do in the states


*(Obviously joke - "I won the fat b@stards 30-34 category" ah no no)

why not use boxing as an example and do it by weight category instead of age....or like horseracing a weight handicap race? (actually that would be interesting!!)

tunney

longshank wrote: »

why not use boxing as an example and do it by weight category instead of age....or like horseracing a weight handicap race? (actually that would be interesting!!)

6 foot 2 broad lad with 6% BF 11st
5 foot lad with a slight frame but hideously overweight 11st

Triangla

What I love about races is that you could be lining up with an Olympian and a Biggest Loser candidate in the same race and every other type of ability in between.

When you finish the swim and are on the bike, those people in front of you are the competition.

When you finish the cycle and are running, those people in front of you are the competition.

No need to worry about anyone else.

Get around the course in the quickest time you can, then try to beat that time next time you do the same course.

National series points IMHO are for the podium finishers and you can ignore them.

You could do 5 races and finish at the rear.

Another person could do 1 race and break world records to win.

You will be placed higher than them on the rankings because you have points from 5 races against their 1.

sconhome

catweazle wrote: »

Its a different mindset for you Tunney - a few years ago you would have been in the mix in these series rankings- now you are ****e like the rest of us

I see Huff and Puff has been recently upgraded from A3 to A2 in cycling, perhaps if I had something like a category like that to aim at, I might get more involved in the National series

You only have to worry about beating me.

Nothing else. :P

mirrormatrix

Triangla wrote: »

What I love about races is that you could be lining up with an Olympian and a Biggest Loser candidate in the same race and every other type of ability in between.

When you finish the swim and are on the bike, those people in front of you are the competition.

When you finish the cycle and are running, those people in front of you are the competition.

No need to worry about anyone else.

Fair point. I do like the fact that you race the same course as the 'elites'. Just thought it might give you extra motivation if you feel that you are racing someone for points/place rather than racing yourself essentially for a PB time.

I'd better pipe down now before I get booted off this forum

catweazle

amphkingwest wrote: »

You only have to worry about beating me.

Nothing else. :P

Jaysus let me concentrate on 2013 first before our first big battle in Castlehackett in January 2014 (heres hoping the weather is an unseasonably balmy 20 degrees and the sun splitting the rocks our the resident boards hardman will cry off)

longshank

tunney wrote: »

6 foot 2 broad lad with 6% BF 11st
5 foot lad with a slight frame but hideously overweight 11st

true -i wasnt really being serious but your 2 examples could be in the same age category too!

ps - strava does league tables by weight so not that far fetched an idea.

pgibbo

amphkingwest wrote: »

You only have to worry about beating me.

Nothing else. :P

He's not worried about that. Reckons it's in the bag :eek: