How do you get your baby to sleep?

scrgirl

My 4 month old is Sleeping great, wakes for feed around 5am but only awake for a few mins, I hardly open my eyes! And then up around 9. Getting the little rascal down to sleep is another story though! He seems to know when bedtime is approaching and gets a bit hyper despite bath massage gentle music, walking patting shushing etc and then gets himself overtierd and has a good cry, wakes about 4 times in the first hour/2 before settling at last, bedtimes are the longest part of my day! Start trying to wind him down around 6 and if lucky he is asleep for the night by 9 or 10! Its hit and miss totally some nights the massage works a treat and he falls asleep during his last feed, if not its capers! How do people get babies to sleep without using cry it out?

How Strange

Perseverance! Stick with the bed time routine. It's probably the ony routine we ever had/still have and it has paid off in the sense that our now 2 year old knows when it's time to go to bed because we do the same thing very night.

However your baby is only four months old so you need to keep your expectations realistic. A 4 month old is still a very young baby with a limited amount of needs and wants; feeding and comforting probably being the most important. He isn't going to respond to a routine just yet. It may take months before you see any benefit to the routine.

I'd seriously recommend you forget any thoughts of crying it out or self soothing etc. Your baby is far too young and is still at an age when he needs his cries to be responded to as his needs are stil limited.

We all want the perfect babies that sleep from 7pm at night right through until 7am but very very few of us get them. By the way sleeping from 9pm to 5 am is pretty much sleeping through for a baby that young. My son would've gone to bed aeound 7pm and woken at 2am for a feed then every two hours after that.

Moonbeam

I feed him and put him in the basket about 11 and he wakes about 7:30..normally.
Last night he woke every 3 hours for feeds he is 3 months.
Does he have a soother?

Syllabus

Vodka....











Not the baby, me!!!!

Syllabus

When ours was 4 months she would be asleep by 7ish, wake for a feed about 11, another about 1ish then sleep through til 5 ish

We would let her cry for 10mins or so then resettle her without talking or lifting her and then give her 15 mins and repeat adding 5 extra mins each time until she settled when putting her down at 7ish. Usually didnt take long

littlemissfixit

Just maybe too much happening in the bedtime routine, it works with some babies but for others the shorter the better. With mines it was always after dinner they play then come quarter to 7 quiet play on the sofa, feed and bed for the youngest and half 7 same thing with the eldest (feed being a small snack and drink). It worked with both mines and Im really glad now with them both a bit older (near 1yr and 2 and half) that for both of them it takes less than 10min from the getting ready for bed until peace and quiet.

emer_b

My baby is 7 months now but I remember around the 4 month mark she went from 9pm bedtime to 7.30pm over about 3 weeks. I was reluctant to put her to bed earlier as I thought she would wake earlier (poor me I thought), but she didn't really. Also I wasn't recognising the hyper signs as tiredness, I thought she was just full of beans but in reality she was ready to crash.
I still find the nighttime sleeping/waking routine changes every few weeks and she settles into a different pattern so I just try to go with it.
I agree that 4 months is a bit early for sleep training. I started at 6 months when I put her into her big cot. I used the baby whisperer method of pick up/put down. It actually worked after 1 week, and there was a notable difference even after the first night. I was gobsmacked that it really worked so quickly, not as tough as cry it out, on baby or on parent.

pwurple

Bath, massage, music, walking and patting seems like a lot of stimulation for a baby that age.

We did bath, bedtime feed, brush teeth, cuddle in her dark room for a few mins,and then down to sleep.

Overtiredness is the worst though, when she missed a nap during the day (she was on 3 naps at the time) then she was more unsettled, took a few repeats of cuddles to finally settle.

emer_b

The bedtime routine gets a lot of attention in any sleeping advice I've read and I agree it's important but I don't think it has to involve too many different stages.
I just put babies pjs on, wash her hands and face, quietly walk upstairs, feed in the bedroom with a lullaby playing and then put baby in the cot.

I know my little lady loves baths but she only gets one once a week, I would struggle to find the time daily!

December2012

You really don't need to bath them every night.

If you notice that he is getting a bit excited / agitated near bedtime routine, then it may be that he is already tired and would love a little short nap before maybe going for a big sleep later.

Don't forget about the four month feeding / growth spurt too.

The way that I got my child to sleep was by cosleeping and breastfeeding. It really worked for us all, so find what works for your child and then stick with it - they'll be as sure to change their routine again in a wee while!

Oral Slang

At 4 months, my daughter definitely did not a bedtime, it depended on naps during the day etc. I did & still do feed to sleep, but it was only at about 6/7 months that she started having a bedtime which she fell into herself.

Rose35

It was at 4 months and still is at 8 months like oral slang feeding to sleep, we just gradually wind down, sometimes bath, pyjamas, sit on couch with bottle and relax, we are getting there slowly with the put down semi asleep in cot and hope for the best!!!

You and baby will gradually fall into a routine, 4 months is too early for baby to fall into a routine easily in my opinion, good luck with it.

scaryfairy

emer_b wrote: »

My baby is 7 months now but I remember around the 4 month mark she went from 9pm bedtime to 7.30pm over about 3 weeks. I was reluctant to put her to bed earlier as I thought she would wake earlier (poor me I thought), but she didn't really. Also I wasn't recognising the hyper signs as tiredness, I thought she was just full of beans but in reality she was ready to crash.
I still find the nighttime sleeping/waking routine changes every few weeks and she settles into a different pattern so I just try to go with it.
I agree that 4 months is a bit early for sleep training. I started at 6 months when I put her into her big cot. I used the baby whisperer method of pick up/put down. It actually worked after 1 week, and there was a notable difference even after the first night. I was gobsmacked that it really worked so quickly, not as tough as cry it out, on baby or on parent.

hi emer_b

(sorry don't mean to hijack the thread)
how did you apply the PUPD? I have tried to find out how to do it but I seem to find contradicting info. As it has worked for you and your LO, would be v grateful if you could share your experience! I may have to resort to it at some stage...
many thanks
sf

emer_b

scaryfairy wrote: »

hi emer_b

(sorry don't mean to hijack the thread)
how did you apply the PUPD? I have tried to find out how to do it but I seem to find contradicting info. As it has worked for you and your LO, would be v grateful if you could share your experience! I may have to resort to it at some stage...
many thanks
sf

Hi scary, pm sent. I think it's hard to find the right info as the baby whisperer people want you to buy the book. The link I sent you has more than enough info to prepare yourself. It took me 90 mins the first night, 30mins the second night and no more than 10/15mins most nights since then. Well worth the trouble!

velomelo

we put our son on his tummy at around 6th week and that's all the sleeping problems sorted out - 12h was his average sleep
once he was able to drink bottle on his own we gave him a bottle, turn on the night lamp, close the dors and that's pretty much it - but then again I suppose we were just lucky comparing to others

scrgirl

Thanks for all the comments and advice. He always slept downstairs in pram or couch until we went to bed when tiny, cluster feeding etc. When he was 3 months old he started having really fussy periods downstairs and after about 3 weeks of this crying inconsolably for an hour we figured he needed less stimulation to get off to sleep so started bringing him up to bedroom at 7 or 8 when he looked tierd and feeding to sleep or rocking usually took about 20 mins and he slept till i woke him for a feed at 11ish when going to bed. This lasted for 3 weeks and then he started waking up after 40 mins and I think he realised he was "all alone" and started to fret at bedtime since then. We focused on increasing the wind down period with bath and massage but its not working, last night he cried so hard when I brought him up I realised we have to scrap the whole bedtime routine for now as he just is too young. We got him off eventually down here and he slept on the couch peacefully until we went to bed. I guess we had a 3 week holiday and thought that was it sorted! But it was just 3 lucky weeks! I have no intention of doing Cry it out, I cant bear to hear him cry in my arms so I wouldnt be able to bear leaving him in the room crying alone. We do co sleep btw. As i said through the night is no prob one or two feeds its just the getting him down without inconsolably crying that I need to figure out

pwurple

velomelo wrote: »

we put our son on his tummy at around 6th week and that's all the sleeping problems sorted out - 12h was his average sleep
once he was able to drink bottle on his own we gave him a bottle, turn on the night lamp, close the dors and that's pretty much it - but then again I suppose we were just lucky comparing to others

Giving a child a bottle in the cot is not ideal. Choking risk, higher risk of ear infections from them lying down and drinking, tooth decay as you are not brushing afterwards, building sleep associations with it which are hard to break. Not advisable.

Putting infants to sleep on tummy, also not a good idea until they are around 12 months because of the risk of sudden infant death.

velomelo

pwurple wrote: »

Giving a child a bottle in the cot is not ideal. Choking risk, higher risk of ear infections from them lying down and drinking, tooth decay as you are not brushing afterwards, building sleep associations with it which are hard to break. Not advisable.

Putting infants to sleep on tummy, also not a good idea until they are around 12 months because of the risk of sudden infant death.

Didn't choke nor died of sudden infant death = worked well for us in the early stage. We reduced the evening bottle good few months ago so he falls asleep without it now.

All the hype about sleeping position which apparently changes every few years or so should be put aside, because what matters is what works for the baby, you can't or at least shouldn't go against the nature. While he was sleeping on his back, any little sleep twitch would wake him up and all we had to do was observe him and figure out that he had them constantly, once moved on his tummy everything stopped and we all could enjoy good nights sleep.

Now this obviously depends on your philosophy of life and attitude to what type of parent you are. We've seen people who are completely shielding the baby from the whole world seeing deadly germs,evil forces everywhere, believing and following every single piece of advice they read up in books. And as scary as it may be when you have your first baby what people should realise is that you need to go with the natures way, observe, try few different things and see what works well for the child. If it's going to die of a sudden infant deat syndrome there is no way in this world that anyone can stop it...

Personally we are quite happy with that kind of attitude.

Now brushing his teeth is completely different matter

shedweller

Wrapped and shushed our first child from the start. Combined with a quick wash every evening he slept ok. Within 3 months he slept from the last feed at 22:00 right through to 06:00 or so. We got a fright first time actually!!
We also used static white noise to replace the shushing as there was no way i could sustain it for that long! There are little teddy bears with white noise generators inside but we used a little clock radio detuned and it worked a treat. We even used to feel sleepy when it came on!
Didnt need it for our twins two years later so it does depend on the child.

Hannibal Smith

velomelo wrote: »

we put our son on his tummy at around 6th week and that's all the sleeping problems sorted out - 12h was his average sleep
once he was able to drink bottle on his own we gave him a bottle, turn on the night lamp, close the dors and that's pretty much it - but then again I suppose we were just lucky comparing to others

We did this too..gave him the bottle when he wad old enough and he conked out. he was much older than four months though. its great for parent and child

yellow hen

Our little man is only 7 weeks old but we have a problem with daytime sleeping. He falls asleep with me after a bottle but when I try to put him into Moses, pram or cot he wakes within 10-15 mins crying. Ive tried putting him down awake but he cries then too. I know 7weeks is too young to let him cry it out so has anyone any suggestions? At the moment I downs about 6 hours of day on the couch with him asleep on me

scaryfairy

yellow hen wrote: »

Our little man is only 7 weeks old but we have a problem with daytime sleeping. He falls asleep with me after a bottle but when I try to put him into Moses, pram or cot he wakes within 10-15 mins crying. Ive tried putting him down awake but he cries then too. I know 7weeks is too young to let him cry it out so has anyone any suggestions? At the moment I downs about 6 hours of day on the couch with him asleep on me

hi
I also used to be pinned to the sofa for the first 2 months! I am not a good example of anything but the way I got around it was to put the little man in a sling. Then he started napping in it - in a stretchy wrap, mostly. At this age they are still fairly light so was OK. I also used white noise on the ipad to make him fall asleep faster. He used to have good, long naps on me...

emer_b

I had the same situation yellow hen and although I didn't find any magic solution it did get a little better every week. I think when they are that small, some babies just need to be close to you for comfort. By 10 weeks my lady was taking little naps in the bouncy chair and the buggy. It also took this long for me to be able to leave her down while she was awake for anything more than 5 minutes without her bawling. Just took about 3 months for her to be comfortable being on her own.
By the way, if you're not swaddling already its worth a shot, gives them that sense of being cuddled.

embireland

scrgirl wrote: »

My 4 month old is Sleeping great, wakes for feed around 5am but only awake for a few mins, I hardly open my eyes! And then up around 9. Getting the little rascal down to sleep is another story though! He seems to know when bedtime is approaching and gets a bit hyper despite bath massage gentle music, walking patting shushing etc and then gets himself overtierd and has a good cry, wakes about 4 times in the first hour/2 before settling at last, bedtimes are the longest part of my day! Start trying to wind him down around 6 and if lucky he is asleep for the night by 9 or 10! Its hit and miss totally some nights the massage works a treat and he falls asleep during his last feed, if not its capers! How do people get babies to sleep without using cry it out?

Maybe your baby needs to go on solids and wakening/cant sleep with the hunger. Formula milk may not be enough for him, he may need more. Have you got your 4 month on solids yet or still bottle feeding. I know my 2 wee girls had to go on solids when 4 months.
My baby gets her baby dinner at 6, then dessert (custard at 6.30) then a bottle of full fat cows milk at 7, and then happy to fall asleep listening to classical music like lyric fm. She is 15 months now, but maybe he needs food to get him asleep.. As i do, stuff em before bed, sleeps til 7am:p

December2012

yellow hen wrote: »

Our little man is only 7 weeks old but we have a problem with daytime sleeping. He falls asleep with me after a bottle but when I try to put him into Moses, pram or cot he wakes within 10-15 mins crying. Ive tried putting him down awake but he cries then too. I know 7weeks is too young to let him cry it out so has anyone any suggestions? At the moment I downs about 6 hours of day on the couch with him asleep on me

Look up the fourth trimester. In all honesty you need to be sitting down and resting too, so get a box set and go with it.

scrgirl

yellow hen wrote: »

Our little man is only 7 weeks old but we have a problem with daytime sleeping. He falls asleep with me after a bottle but when I try to put him into Moses, pram or cot he wakes within 10-15 mins crying. Ive tried putting him down awake but he cries then too. I know 7weeks is too young to let him cry it out so has anyone any suggestions? At the moment I downs about 6 hours of day on the couch with him asleep on me

It wont last for much longer, and then you will miss it, cause instead of sleeping on you he will be jumping on you! My baby never slept in pram alone until around 10 weeks, and naps are only now getting into a routine! A sling is useful, if you get the ring sling I believe it can help by putting them down once asleep still in the sling as its warm and smells familiar, so baby likely to stay asleep. (I never did this but heard from a mum who did) Otherwise like above poster said get a box set and enjoy this lazy time together!

scrgirl

embireland wrote: »

Maybe your baby needs to go on solids and wakening/cant sleep with the hunger. Formula milk may not be enough for him, he may need more. Have you got your 4 month on solids yet or still bottle feeding. I know my 2 wee girls had to go on solids when 4 months.
My baby gets her baby dinner at 6, then dessert (custard at 6.30) then a bottle of full fat cows milk at 7, and then happy to fall asleep listening to classical music like lyric fm. She is 15 months now, but maybe he needs food to get him asleep.. As i do, stuff em before bed, sleeps til 7am:p

Defo not hungry breast feeds on demand and even refuses boob at bedtime if hes had some a little earlier, plus he is gaining massive weight! went from 3rd to 50th and most recently 85th Percentile! I wouldnt start solids till 6 months as it can effect their gut flora (for BF babies) and the digestive system is not able for solids yet.

yellow hen

scrgirl wrote: »

It wont last for much longer, and then you will miss it, cause instead of sleeping on you he will be jumping on you! My baby never slept in pram alone until around 10 weeks, and naps are only now getting into a routine! A sling is useful, if you get the ring sling I believe it can help by putting them down once asleep still in the sling as its warm and smells familiar, so baby likely to stay asleep. (I never did this but heard from a mum who did) Otherwise like above poster said get a box set and enjoy this lazy time together!

I can't use the fabric slings as he has reflux and lying down brings up puke.

Don't get me wrong, I love the time together and I do sky-plus things to watch but it's hard when I know the bottles need to be made or dinner needs to be cooked. I'm going to persevere with the cot this week but will use his music bear and warm blankets etching to coax him to sleep. Thankfully he's sleeping we'll at night. Slept from 11 to 4am last night in the cot but slept with me after his bottle

pwurple

velomelo wrote: »

Didn't choke nor died of sudden infant death = worked well for us in the early stage.

Lucky you. Not everyone is quite so lucky.

It's wholly irresponsible to do something where you know the potential risk is death. I wouldn't put my child into a car without a carseat. You may have the "philosophy" that the universe will take care of it, and if a crash happens and they get killed by flying out the window, there was nothing you could do about it... but I think that kind of thing is fairly naieve to put it mildly. I'm not talking about wrapping children in cotton wool their whole lives, but avoiding easily preventable deaths by not giving an infant something which can choke them is pretty basic parenting.

velomelo

pwurple wrote: »

Lucky you. Not everyone is quite so lucky.

It's wholly irresponsible to do something where you know the potential risk is death. I wouldn't put my child into a car without a carseat. You may have the "philosophy" that the universe will take care of it, and if a crash happens and they get killed by flying out the window, there was nothing you could do about it... but I think that kind of thing is fairly naieve to put it mildly. I'm not talking about wrapping children in cotton wool their whole lives, but avoiding easily preventable deaths by not giving an infant something which can choke them is pretty basic parenting.

Again if I was thinking this way I would have to keep my child in fusion generated warp field bubble straight from StarTrek to keep it safe from Satan, Al-Quaida, corporate greed and all other evil that God send to Earth to make our life worth living. I think common sense is what you need to have. It did work for us. We decided to ignore all the "don't do that or it will kill your baby" hype and simply observed the reactions of the baby while for example strenghtening his neck during the day so there was no risk he wouldn't be able to move the head. Plus he has nicely shaped head no flat areas.

Yay! yet another benefit of our silly and naive parenting technics

pwurple

velomelo wrote: »

Plus he has nicely shaped head no flat areas.

Good to see your priorities are straight.

velomelo

pwurple wrote: »

Good to see your priorities are straight.

If you want to raise another Beckham or Ronaldo you gotta start early

meeeeh

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

We did this too..gave him the bottle when he wad old enough and he conked out. he was much older than four months though. its great for parent and child

It didn't work out that well for us. The little gabgster has nice tooth decay on two of his teeth. The fact that we have own well for drinking water didn't help. We could use mains but water without fluoride tastes so much nicer and none of us actually thought how important it is for children.

The second one will have to do without bottle in bed. She is great atm and we just put her into bed between 8 or 9 and she sleeps till morning. She is six months so that could all change.

Hannibal Smith

meeeeh wrote: »

It didn't work out that well for us. The little gabgster has nice tooth decay on two of his teeth. The fact that we have own well for drinking water didn't help. We could use mains but water without fluoride tastes so much nicer and none of us actually thought how important it is for children.

The second one will have to do without bottle in bed. She is great atm and we just put her into bed between 8 or 9 and she sleeps till morning. She is six months so that could all change.

Just goes to show what works for one family doesn't work for another.

meeeeh

Apparently that is quite common though. They fall asleep with the bottle in their mouth and it leeks slowly onto the tooth and causes decay. We always brushed his teeth but it doesn't help if milk is in the mouth for most of the night. Then he was too young for dental work and the lack of fluoride in the water made it worse.

I feel extremely guilty and would never let a child go to bed with a bottle again.

foodaholic

yellow hen wrote: »

I can't use the fabric slings as he has reflux and lying down brings up puke.

The correct position in a sling is with your baby upright - which is why it's recommended so much for reflux babies. Have a look at babywearingireland or other babywearing sites to see. It was a godsend to me.

Hannibal Smith

meeeeh wrote: »

Apparently that is quite common though. They fall asleep with the bottle in their mouth and it leeks slowly onto the tooth and causes decay. We always brushed his teeth but it doesn't help if milk is in the mouth for most of the night. Then he was too young for dental work and the lack of fluoride in the water made it worse.

I feel extremely guilty and would never let a child go to bed with a bottle again.

You made the best decisions that were right for you. same as everyone.

littlemissfixit

meeeeh wrote: »

Apparently that is quite common though. They fall asleep with the bottle in their mouth and it leeks slowly onto the tooth and causes decay. We always brushed his teeth but it doesn't help if milk is in the mouth for most of the night. Then he was too young for dental work and the lack of fluoride in the water made it worse.

I feel extremely guilty and would never let a child go to bed with a bottle again.

I think this says a lot. As long as all goes well it is easy to be quite careless and have a philosophy of life is to be enjoyed no matter what... When something does go wrong, the feeling of guilt even if you have done everything right will eat you up, just imagine if you knew you consciously didn't do what may have prevented the outcome...

yellow hen

foodaholic wrote: »

The correct position in a sling is with your baby upright - which is why it's recommended so much for reflux babies. Have a look at babywearingireland or other babywearing sites to see. It was a godsend to me.

I bought an ergo and I love it. I had a wallaboo sling but it didn't work with the reflux.

Thumby

Woohoo finally made it to the newborn section lol. OP you'll find babs will eventually just find his own routine for settling down at night eventually. No matter what i done with munch he just wouldn't. I tried every age appropriate method that i could. What works for him is some tummy and play time on his playmat then a top and tail/bath (he only gets a bath every second day), into his pjs up the stairs and a nice warm bottle then into his basket. Funny thing is i didn't deliberatly try this. I don't have him on the playmat until k is gone to bed as i'm terrified she'll forget he's there and stomp on him when she running around like a loon. Since i've started doin this with lorcan at night, not only does he settle down easier but he's practically sleepin through the night now too, one or two feeds within nine hours as opposed to his usual 5-7 feeds.

scrgirl

Thumby wrote: »

Woohoo finally made it to the newborn section lol. OP you'll find babs will eventually just find his own routine for settling down at night eventually. No matter what i done with munch he just wouldn't. I tried every age appropriate method that i could. What works for him is some tummy and play time on his playmat then a top and tail/bath (he only gets a bath every second day), into his pjs up the stairs and a nice warm bottle then into his basket. Funny thing is i didn't deliberatly try this. I don't have him on the playmat until k is gone to bed as i'm terrified she'll forget he's there and stomp on him when she running around like a loon. Since i've started doin this with lorcan at night, not only does he settle down easier but he's practically sleepin through the night now too, one or two feeds within nine hours as opposed to his usual 5-7 feeds.

Sounds Lovely! What age is Lorcan?

Thumby

He's 13 weeks now (7 weeks corrected) and he's been goin down like this for nearly 3 weeks now. He only woke once last :-D so hopefully he keeps that up.

ronjo

Our daughter is three weeks old and my wife feeds her about 8 and we leave her in the pram until about 10.30. Then we bring her upstairs and she gets fed again while half asleep and each of the last four nights she has slept until around six am.

Two nights ago she actually slept 9 hours solid which was fantastic as we couldn't wake her to feed her at about 11.

Thumby

Thats great ronjo, just don't expect it every night yet. They usually go through a growth spurt around now and sometimes sleep a bit more then go back to waking for feeds. Fingers crossed for you though babs sticks to sleeping more for ye though.

ronjo

Thumby wrote: »

Thats great ronjo, just don't expect it every night yet. They usually go through a growth spurt around now and sometimes sleep a bit more then go back to waking for feeds. Fingers crossed for you though babs sticks to sleeping more for ye though.

We are really happy but know it won't necessarily last. Her sister is two and a half and she has always been a great sleeper (although not quite at as early as number two).
We personally found you can get them on a routine at a very young age but the fact they didn't suffer from colic or have digestive problems obviously really helped.