N40 - Weird signage (No entry where there is entry!)

Solair

I drive past this pair of no entry signs every day and I just thought I'd post them here.

They're at the top of the slip road to Mahon point. There are two No Entry signs which are totally misplaced.

They make it look like you shouldn't enter the junction at all, when they mean you shouldn't cross the junction.
They really should have left/right turn only signs and a no entry half-way across the junction, not before you enter it.

I've actually seen a few cars (mostly British reg) unfamiliar with it look a bit puzzled / hesitate to drive on!

See Google Maps streetview link below
http://url.ie/ha8n

Am I right in thinking that there's something not quite right about that signage?

Or, is it just the rather odd use of a crossed out arrow as No Entry in Ireland that's leaving us without a 'no straight ahead'.

AugustusMinimus

The signs are indicating you can't go up the slip road, drive straight across the junction and go down the slip road back onto the N40.

People attempt to do this a lot to skip traffic queues on the N40.

ardmacha

Or, is it just the rather odd use of a crossed out arrow as No Entry in Ireland that's leaving us without a 'no straight ahead'.

A no entry sign has now been introduced, this is a no straight ahead.

Jayuu

On their own they might be a bit confusing but taken in conjunction with the road markings I think it's reasonably clear what they mean to be honest. 2 lanes turning left, 1 lane turning right, no straight ahead.

corktina

quite clear to me

becost

Given the size of that junction, if they were placed where they usually are at the opposite side of the junction, I'm sure it would lead to dangerous maneuvers by people only noticing them mid way through...

Solair

A row of plastic bollards across the middle of the junction would be more useful.

Coming from Mahon to the N40 there's no right turn until you cross the bridge and there's no crossing the junction there either.

I've seen at least two card cross there anyway, disregarding the signs and lights rather than go to MP.

Ludo

Cant block the junction with bollards though as then the right turn onto the N40 when coming from Jacobs Island direction across the bridge would be blocked.

DeiseforLiam

The new signs manual introduced a new No Entry sign (horizontal white bar on red background).
The other sign means No Straight Ahead.

chewed

What do they use in the UK/Continent for "no straight ahead"?

Alun

chewed wrote: »

What do they use in the UK/Continent for "no straight ahead"?

They don't AFAIK, at least I don't recall ever seeing one there. Instead they use blue signs with white arrows telling you what directions you CAN travel in, rather than where you can't, plus they all have the universal No Entry Sign (Large red circle with white bar) which was only recently introduced here. I'm not 100% sure but I think the Irish No Entry / No Straight Ahead sign is unique in Europe along with all those American style yellow diamond warning signs..

Here's a handy guide ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_European_road_signs

Solair

Things like road signage are something the EU ought to be regulating more rigorously.

There are way too many odd variations of road traffic law across the EU.

We should just take a 'best of' all the existing systems and ditch the weird bits.

hi5

They should have green left and right arrows on the lights instead of a solid green.
Those in the middle lane might not see the markings or the signs especially if you had large vehicles on each side of you.

edit; Maybe they are green arrows and not solid, in which case there shouldn't be any ambiguity.

Solair

Green left & right and red straight ahead arrow would work

murphaph

chewed wrote: »

What do they use in the UK/Continent for "no straight ahead"?

There's no standard "on the continent" but in Germany they'd use this sign in this location...

http://www.toool-factory.com/artikelbilder/18Verkehrsschild_nach_STVO_Typ_1_Nr_209_31_Vorgeschriebene_Fahrtrichtung_53_5969_g.jpg

tonc76

A lane destination sign/s on the approach to the lights indicating which lane to take for the particular destinations. The no entry signs should then be located on both sides of the road at the point where the restriction applies.

Alun

tonc76 wrote: »

The no entry signs should then be located on both sides of the road at the point where the restriction applies.

But in this particular situation this would be incorrect, as you can actually legally turn left or right into that slip from the main carriageway, and although illegal, it wouldn't actually be dangerous, as nothing will becoming towards you. They're just trying to stop people jumping queues by turning off the main N40, going straight over the lights and down the on ramp the other side.

Solair

Actually thinking about it, in France you'd see a version of the "cul de sac" sign

A blue sign with a white arrow left and right and a red line across the straight ahead path indicating no through road.

tonc76

Alun wrote: »

But in this particular situation this would be incorrect, as you can actually legally turn left or right into that slip from the main carriageway, and although illegal, it wouldn't actually be dangerous, as nothing will becoming towards you. They're just trying to stop people jumping queues by turning off the main N40, going straight over the lights and down the on ramp the other side.

In that case a lane destination sign with a red block for straight ahead could work although if someone wants to go straight ahead they'll do it anyway regardless of what signs are in place. It comes down to the design of the junction though. The merge and diverge lanes at this location should have been staggered if CCC wanted to eliminate the problem which now exists.

murphaph

I prefer the German way of positive commands, ie, showing what you may/must do, rather than what you may not do. Having said that, the "no straight ahead" sign (it now means this in Ireland since the introduction of a proper "No Entry" sign) is actually perfectly logical so long as you have "no left" and "no right" turn signs in the mix. It is a logical extension of these 2 signs and fits this junction perfectly.

I'd rather we didn't use any "no x turn" signs and went the German because at present in Ireland (and the UK, France etc.) you have a mix of "you must turn x" and "you must not turn x". The "must not" is actually redundant signage that adds another level of stuff for the brain to filter.

I'm largely a fan of UK signage practices but the Germans do this the best IMO.