Campagnolo Groupsets

snollup

Morning all,

I am hoping to order a new bike in the coming months and have more or less decided on the Ribble Reynolds steel frame.

What I am trying to decide on is what grouppo to go with. It will definitely be Campagnolo but I trying to decide if it will be Cantaur or Athena. The Athena is €110 more the the Cantaur.

My question is is it worth the extra few bobs?

Your opinions greatly appreciated.

PS. am leaning towards the Athena but will mean having to wait an extra month or so and am bikeless at the mo so a month is a long time!

Cheers,
Joe

Chips Lovell

Athena is very like Centaur, the only difference being that it's 11 speed. Unlike the other 11 speed groupsets, it no longer has Ultra Shift shifters or Ultra Torque cranks.

The extra sprocket is useful, to me at least, because it allows you to run a 12-27 cassette that isn't too gappy.

If you've a second bike with ten speed, I'd go for Centaur as it makes it easier for swapping wheels and stuff. If this will be your only bike I'd go for Athena as you get the extra-sprocket and have an element of future proofing, i.e. it'll be compatible with newer stuff for longer.

Idunnowho

By way of throwing a spanner in the works dont overlook the Chorus - the shifter/levers and calipers are almost identical to Record/Super Record and there is very little weight difference from Chorus to Record wrt to the shifters and calipers (and not much at all wrt the mechs). Chorus is where its at in terms of price point/value for money (if your budget can stretch). Shiney Bikes had some good prices on Chorus recently.

RobFowl

+1 on Chorus

DirkVoodoo

As the others have said, pay careful attention as to whether you want 10 or 11 speed. Personally, I'd go 10 speed if it's a toss up between Athena and Centaur. Like Vlad says, Ultrashift is gone so Athena loses the shifting performance from the top tier and all you get is an extra sprocket.

There is still no Athena specific cassette at the entry level, although there are aftermarket 11 speed chains, so replacements can work out a little more expensive if you're going to be clocking up big miles.

Personally, I think having a mix of 10 and 11 speed makes swapping things around a bit more work. Commit to one, so if you go Athena, prepare to move up to Chorus. If you go Centaur, you have the option of a cheaper Veloce bike for the winters.

Oh, and if you are a home mechanic, be wary of power torque. It works fine as a system, in fact Veloce for me has been miles better than 105, but it's really a shop job to take cranks off!

Centaur red/black looks fantastic too!

vigorelli

I went for Athena because I thought 11 speed was more future proof. Since then I have read several reports that shimano and campagnolo 11 speed will be interchangeable as far as spacing and shifting goes. I.e. you can put a shimano 11 speed wheel on your otherwise campag equipped bike, which is a very nice bonus.

Despite being the fourth level down the campag 11 speed groupset hierarchy, athena performs (YMMV) and weighs in at the same level as ultegra. The other (purely aesthetic) reason I went for athena was that it is the only campag groupset that comes in polished silver which I thought would look best on my slightly retro looking 853 frame.

DirkVoodoo

vigorelli wrote: »

The other (purely aesthetic) reason I went for athena was that it is the only campag groupset that comes in polished silver which I thought would look best on my slightly retro looking 853 frame.

So does Veloce.

snollup

Thanks for the replys lads.

This will be my only bike so it wont be an issue regarding changing between 10/11 speed.

Unfortunately Athena is already pushing the budget. Think I may get in a wee bit of trouble is I went for Chorus!

@Vigorelli, the silver finish is also making me lean towards Athena for the same reason as yourself.

snollup

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

So does Veloce.

Didn't realise that - have you used it?

doozerie

vigorelli wrote: »

I went for Athena because I thought 11 speed was more future proof. Since then I have read several reports that shimano and campagnolo 11 speed will be interchangeable as far as spacing and shifting goes. I.e. you can put a shimano 11 speed wheel on your otherwise campag equipped bike, which is a very nice bonus.

I've read some claims on that too but this post, from what appears to be a very knowledgeable and therefore reliable source, addresses that very question directly. From that it looks like you could interchange them in a pinch but you are likely to be sacrificing shift quality so probably best to avoid doing it unless you really have to.

doozerie

On the topic of servicing Power Torque cranks, this article describes how to remove and replace the cranks and bearings and lists the tools the author used. The non-ranting comments contain further useful info on tools other than those listed in the article that can be used. The ranting and moaning comments, both religiously pro- and anti- Power Torque, are best ignored entirely.

chakattack

Ultratorque is such a simple and easy to use design design that I would avoid power torque at all costs. A 10mm allen wrench with a longish handle and some grease is all you need to service the bottom bracket.

Good value to be had on new old stock ultratorque cranksets - 10 and 11 speed.

Chips Lovell

I bent my wookie bearing pullers, trying to get a set of Power Torque cranks off. I didn't install them myself, so maybe it's normally easier. but it hasn't left me with a great love for Power Torque.

Ultra Torque on the other hand is my favourite BB design. So easy to install, no issues with loosening pinch bolts etc. and very easy to maintain the bearings.

joxerjohn

Grouppo prices on Bike24.com

Veloce 10s €409
Centaur 10s €529
Athena 11s €639
Chorus 11s €1029
Record 11s €1469
Super 11s €1770

DirkVoodoo

doozerie wrote: »

On the topic of servicing Power Torque cranks, this article describes how to remove and replace the cranks and bearings and lists the tools the author used. The non-ranting comments contain further useful info on tools other than those listed in the article that can be used. The ranting and moaning comments, both religiously pro- and anti- Power Torque, are best ignored entirely.

Yes, it's quite easy with the right, expensive tools. Not so great for the home mechanic having to constantly invest in new tools for campag:
14mm hex bit (not sure, about a tenner, got mine in Halfords)
Park Bearing Puller 62 euro from CRC
Rest of the kit 57 euro from PBK

So, if you want to buy power torque and service it yourself, prepare to shell out at least 130 euro just on the tools.

I also bent Vlad's bearing puller, sent it to the shop, they got it off, cranks are a little beat up after all of it!

Shimano = pinch bolts removable with a multi-tool.

I don't think it's ranting that should be ignored when Campagnolo themselves advertised Power Torque as an advancement because of the ease of servicing over Ultra Torque. They shafted their customers, plain and simple.

happytramp

I'm almost ashamed to admit it but I'd probably I'd go for whichever one looks nicer (all part of being a Campagnolo rider right )

I think it depends on the frame and how you plan on finishing off the bike too.

DirkVoodoo

happytramp wrote: »

I'm almost ashamed to admit it but I'd probably I'd go for whichever one looks nicer (all part of being a Campagnolo rider right )

I think it depends on the frame and how you plan on finishing off the bike too.

Agree. I have a red/black/silver Ridley Orion frame that I've decided to hang onto. Going to kit it out with Centaur Red/Black, but I may chuck the crankset and buy another (part of the reasoning being a temptation to get a power2max).

Every bike looks good with Super Record though...

doozerie

DirkVoodoo wrote:

I don't think it's ranting that should be ignored when Campagnolo themselves advertised Power Torque as an advancement because of the ease of servicing over Ultra Torque. They shafted their customers, plain and simple.

Did Campag ever advertise Power Torque as being easier to service than Ultra Torque? I've never seen that claimed, though I haven't read up much on Power Torque I have to admit as I don't use it and don't plan to (I have enough tools already without investing in kit that requires more). Campag's Power Torque web page does refer to "four simple steps to fit" but they make no mention of removing it, or the bearings

The ranting comments that I suggested be ignored were the ones where someone dismisses Campag because it's Campag, or simply raves about Campag because it's Campag. There is nothing useful in such comments, they are typically fuelled by nothing but personal bias and, all too often, bitterness (either at Campag or at its competitors). Any bike part should be assessed on its merits, not on whether someone rates it highly/lowly because it is "cool" or "uncool".

As to whether Campag shafted their customers, that's entirely a matter of opinion. I wasn't shafted, but as I say I have no intention of ever tangling with Power Torque, whereas if someone bought it and found that the proper tools weren't adequate to service it then they'd certainly have reason to be upset. But from what I understand the tools to service it were available from the outset - it's likely the average person who maintains their own bike didn't have those tools, but then such a person might not have a chain tool which could safely split an 11-speed chain either, or a torque wrench for dealing with carbon parts. Times change, tools change, it bothers me as much as the next person when I find my current set of tools is suddenly incomplete again, but I think that's often simply inevitable (just like I'll inevitably be bothered if disk brakes become the norm, if road bike rear spacing moves to 135mm to accommodate disk brakes and 12-speed, etc.).

So when I recently tried to buy new calliper (non v-brake) brake levers for my MTB, and couldn't find what I wanted and therefore ended up moving to v-brakes (which I dislike), I didn't consider that Shimano and other manufacturers had shafted me as a customer, I just accepted that some things change and therefore the options available to me changed. (Instead I directed my bitterness directly at the v-brakes themselves, and in fairness to them they responded in kind, and in spades.)

snollup

joxerjohn wrote: »

Grouppo prices on Bike24.com

Veloce 10s €409
Centaur 10s €529
Athena 11s €639
Chorus 11s €1029
Record 11s €1469
Super 11s €1770

Ah, that's settled then, Super Record it is!

chakattack

Bike palast often have good specials. I've seen Chorus for 900

DirkVoodoo

doozerie wrote: »

Did Campag ever advertise Power Torque as being easier to service than Ultra Torque? I've never seen that claimed, though I haven't read up much on Power Torque I have to admit as I don't use it and don't plan to (I have enough tools already without investing in kit that requires more). Campag's Power Torque web page does refer to "four simple steps to fit" but they make no mention of removing it, or the bearings

"The Campagnolo® engineers concentrated on ensuring that installation and servicing would be extremely simple."

Whereas I think it would be more accurate to say:

"The Campagnolo® engineers concentrated on ensuring that installation would be extremely simple. Removal will require specialist tools and should be carried out by a certified shop mechanic. If you want to buy them yourself, that's grand, but we may decide this new and improve system is a dead-end in a year or two, so get that cheque book out."

Having said that, when it's installed it works flawlessly (slight water ingress issue for me with a bearing though!). But for people who may need to disassemble their bike for maintenance, transport or swap cranksets (becoming more common with crank based power meters), it's a pain in the ass.

bcmf

If it were me this is what I would go for...
Source the cheapest place to get Athena 11.
Keep my eye's peeled for a set of Chorus/Record 11 sp shifters.
With Athena shifters you lose half of the multile shifts but regain it with the Chorus.
You wont be outta pocket by too much after you flog the Athena shifters.

Plan on getting rid of the Power Torque crankset and replace with Athena 11 Ultra Torque. They are available but you have to dig deep and be patient. You may need to keep your P/T rings so clean shifting.

As I said to Staro the other day replacement decent quality used 10 sp stuff is getting harder and harder to get and is not dropping in price.

happytramp

bcmf wrote: »

As I said to Staro the other day replacement decent quality used 10 sp stuff is getting harder and harder to get and is not dropping in price.

A lot of the consumables are interchangeable. Campagnolo 11sp chains and chainrings work fine with 10sp set ups.

Chips Lovell

That reminds me, I've a near complete Record 10 speed group that I should really try and sell.

The Crunch

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

That reminds me, I've a near complete Record 10 speed group that I should really try and sell.

That reminds me that I have the left brake lever for it! I can bring it to the Orwell League race next week, if you like?

Chips Lovell

The Crunch wrote: »

That reminds me that I have the left brake lever for it! I can bring it to the Orwell League race next week, if you like?

You do, I forgot that. Yes please, I'll be there. I better be there in fact, I'm running the race!

countrykid

as a recent user of 10 speed centaur..and current user of 11 speed chorus and super record...i can say avoid centaur CRANKS only..rest of groupo sweet but power torque a joke for the reasons mentioned by others...

wet roads in this country means regular crank servicing is reccomended and its painful to have to pry your beautiful carbon cranks off with pullers, brackets blah de blah blah..
ultra torque done in minutes and stress free!!

I sold my 1 year old centaur just for this reason..sad day

crumliniano

As a few others have said, go for Athena but try to get Chorus shifters and an athena ultra torque crankset. I did this last year by scouring eBay for a few months. I got Athena ultratorque crankset from Canada and Chorus shifters from Lithuania, both new and good prices. I got calipers cheap too and a second hand rear derailleur, other than that all the parts were new from online shops (bike-components.de I think). Overall I saved V's what was the best full groupset price I could find (Shiny bikes or cycling bargains) and managed to get better shifting and cranks than the current Athena versions. It could take a bit more time than you want to spend but you could be lucky and find something straight away. There are a few on eBay now from the US - you could be unlucky and be charged import tax but in my experience it doesn't happen too often (hauliers responsibility and an post couldn't be bothered).

cantalach

Slightly OT I know, but seeing as there are so many knowledgeable Campag owners on this thread...

The big websites only seem to sell shifters in pairs. Same goes for the supplier to my LBS. Does anyone know where I can buy just one shifter? I have Athena and there's something not quite right with the right hand shifter for the last few weeks. If I'm replacing it, I'd like to jump up to Chorus so that I'll have the ability to dump multiple gears with the thumb lever. But I don't want to replace the left hand shifter when there's nothing wrong with it.

DirkVoodoo

cantalach wrote: »

Slightly OT I know, but seeing as there are so many knowledgeable Campag owners on this thread...

The big websites only seem to sell shifters in pairs. Same goes for the supplier to my LBS. Does anyone know where I can buy just one shifter? I have Athena and there's something not quite right with the right hand shifter for the last few weeks. If I'm replacing it, I'd like to jump up to Chorus so that I'll have the ability to dump multiple gears with the thumb lever. But I don't want to replace the left hand shifter when there's nothing wrong with it.

Campagnolo is almost entirely serviceable. If there is something wrong with a shifter, you'd save more money trying to fix it than just bin and replace.