Western Europe's first wilderness project launched in Mayo

Cork boy 55

Looks like They are designating an area of over 11,000 hectares in the Nephin Beg Range of North West Mayo as a "wilderness"

The first of its kind in Western Europe apparently
2% of Mayo

Looks like this is quite different to your average collite forest park or lands
The project will involve Coillte taking the commercial forest operation and rewilding this land, improving habitat and landscape quality over a 15 year period. The eventual intention is protecting a landscape of scale with functioning ecosystems while providing an authentic ‘wilderness experience’ for those that visit.



Pictured above: An Taoiseach Enda Kenny TD, photographed at Néifinn Fhiáin in North Co. Mayo with from Left to Right Mr. Jimmy Deenihan, Minister for Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht, Dennis Strong National Parks & wildlife Services, and Bill Murphy, Head of Recreation Coillte to mark the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between Coillte and the Department of Arts, Heritage and the Gaeltacht that designates 11,000 HA along the Nephin Mountain Range as Ireland’s first wilderness area.

http://www.coillte.ie/aboutcoillte/news/article/view/irelands-first-wilderness-project-launched/

Detailed PDF
http://www.self-willed-land.org.uk/articles/wild_nephin_project.pdf

Norwesterner

Sounds like a great idea.
Hope they replant a significant portion with decidious woodland.
We have a pitiful record with woodland covering.
Less per km2 than even Israel and Tunisia.

JyesusChrist

Thats so cool!

Norwesterner

Jesus, Enda Kenny's so tiny.
I thought he was a strapping big fella for some reason.
Or maybe he's just far away.

Hollzy

Delighted to hear this! It's about time. We are the second least forested country in Europe after Iceland; we need projects like this.

Norwesterner

Hollzy wrote: »

Delighted to hear this! It's about time. We are the second least forested country in Europe after Iceland; we need projects like this.

Even more bizarre when you consider trees grow faster in Ireland than any other country in Europe.
As I said, were behind even Tunisia as regards tree plantation.
Has there been a declaration that this area will be replanted or does it just mean there will be no human inteference?

aidoh

I wonder will they attempt to keep it as 'native' as possible in terms of the trees and other vegetation that they plant. I know Coilte mostly harvest introduced trees anyway.

Hollzy

It defeats the purpose if you don't use native vegetation really...

aidoh

I'm wondering though, if they'll consider clearing out current stands of non-native trees for production and planting natives in their place.
I doubt they would - it'd be a lot of work and money and it probably makes little difference to overall biodiversity so long as the forest is mostly native species.
Still a great idea though. Looks like a lovely part of the country.

Norwesterner

aidoh wrote: »

I'm wondering though, if they'll consider clearing out current stands of non-native trees for production and planting natives in their place.
I doubt they would - it'd be a lot of work and money and it probably makes little difference to overall biodiversity so long as the forest is mostly native species.
Still a great idea though. Looks like a lovely part of the country.

There are grants available to landowners who decide to change to native woodland.
I'd certainly do it, if I had sufficient land, if only for personal firewood supply in any upcoming oil crisis.
I'd imagine in the Mayo project they will be removing/selling the spruce and replanting with native woodland.
My teacher would tell us as children, that before the mass clearances of Irish woodland, a squirrel could travel from Malin to Mizen without touching the ground.
This always stuck on my mind, and made a very effective point in a simple manner.

Cork boy 55

aidoh wrote: »

I'm wondering though, if they'll consider clearing out current stands of non-native trees for production and planting natives in their place.
I doubt they would - it'd be a lot of work and money and it probably makes little difference to overall biodiversity so long as the forest is mostly native species.
Still a great idea though. Looks like a lovely part of the country.

Theres some paragraphs in the second link in the OP on what they plan doing with the forests I cannot copy and paste as its a PDF

I think i read elsewhere that collite plantations in this area of Mayo where not the most productive

Looks like a good tourist asset when it is finished.

Birdnuts

Cork boy 55 wrote: »

Theres some paragraphs in the second link in the OP on what they plan doing with the forests I cannot copy and paste as its a PDF

I think i read elsewhere that collite plantations in this area of Mayo where not the most productive

Looks like a good tourist asset when it is finished.

I'll be hiking through this area at the start of June - hope to do a quick assesment of the areas current avian diversity:)

Hollzy

Oh, that's so cool! Make sure you let us know how you get on!

Mickeroo

Birdnuts wrote: »

I'll be hiking through this area at the start of June - hope to do a quick assesment of the areas current avian diversity:)

You doin the Bangor trail or heading for the summits?

Birdnuts

Mickeroo wrote: »

You doin the Bangor trail or heading for the summits?

Both hopefully - using mountain bike where possible. Also planning to explore the vast Sheskin area East of Bangor. I did explore some of the latter area in 2011 and was well impressed with what I saw. Hopefully the weather will play ball - anything like last year would put an end to my plans:(

recedite

Elk might do well in this habitat.

Hollzy

I apologise if this is a little off topic. Again, related to Irish forests and I think people discussing this project in Mayo will be interested in reading it. Didn't think it deserved a whole new thread of it's own though!

http://www.greenparty.ie/news.html?n=211

recedite

Hollzy wrote: »

http://www.greenparty.ie/news.html?n=211

The Green Party welcomed the comments from Minister Pat Rabbitte indicating that the proposed sale of Coillte forest harvest rights will not go ahead. Last weekend Green Party Leader, Eamon Ryan, Forestry spokesperson Cathy Fitzgerald, Environment Spokesperson Cllr Malcolm Noonan and other Green members joined with more than 4000 people at Avondale

That's strange. I was there, and I didn't notice any of those people. Maybe they all went disguised as Richard Boyd Barrett.

Hollzy

http://www.irelandswildlife.com/2013/05/ireland-at-the-forefront-of-new-wilderness-initiative-in-europe/

Not sure if there's actually any new information there but thought I'd share it anyway.

Capercaille

recedite wrote: »

Elk might do well in this habitat.

Elk aren't even native. why would you introduce them? There are enough problems with deer damaging trees without introducing more.

recedite

Well, there used to be Giant Elk here, after the ice age. Then the great broadleaf forests grew, and the habitat became unsuitable for them, and they died out. Then the people came, and cut down the forests. Then there was habitat again.

Hollzy

The giant elk is inappropriately named. The proper name is the giant Irish deer, it wasn't an elk at all. Technically even this name is misleading because its distribution wasn't limited to Ireland, but many fossils of this species have been found here so that's why Irish is in the name.

Capercaille

recedite wrote: »

Well, there used to be Giant Elk here, after the ice age. Then the great broadleaf forests grew, and the habitat became unsuitable for them, and they died out. Then the people came, and cut down the forests. Then there was habitat again.

Giant Elk are a different species to European Elk today.

recedite

The word "deer" is a general term, it could just as well be applied to elk. Giant Elk may not be quite the same as modern European Elk, but seem to fill a similar ecological niche. Who can say the modern type elk would not have got here by now, if like the beavers, they had not been pushed back by early human hunters. It may seem unlikely, but both are known to swim out to islands for food. Red Deer do it too.
If you were going to be a purist about it, and exclude every mammal that was ever brought here by man, and then also exclude every "nuisance" mammal that was hunted out of here by man (bears, wolves, wild boar)...there would be very little choice left to stock a wilderness area with.

Hollzy

This might interest some of you. I would rather see healthy deer populations in the area than an elk introduction. I think it's more important to establish species which are currently here before we plan anything more ambitious. I would love to see something along the lines of an apex predator reintroduction like the wolf at some point but there is no way that would be possible at this time - I wouldn't expect to see it in my lifetime to be honest. I realise that we're talking about a herbivore here so it's a very different scenario but I just don't see any need for the elk to be introduced to be honest.

http://www.gen.tcd.ie/molpopgen/link%20files/Great%20Irish%20elk%20was%20really%20an%20old%20deer.pdf

Capercaille

recedite wrote: »

The word "deer" is a general term, it could just as well be applied to elk. Giant Elk may not be quite the same as modern European Elk, but seem to fill a similar ecological niche. Who can say the modern type elk would not have got here by now, if like the beavers, they had not been pushed back by early human hunters. It may seem unlikely, but both are known to swim out to islands for food. Red Deer do it too.
If you were going to be a purist about it, and exclude every mammal that was ever brought here by man, and then also exclude every "nuisance" mammal that was hunted out of here by man (bears, wolves, wild boar)...there would be very little choice left to stock a wilderness area with.

The reintroductions of Sea Eagle, Golden Eagle and Red Kite into Ireland followed best practices guidelines of The World Conservation Union (IUCN) Specialist Group for Reintroductions (RSG).

One of the main criteria is the species had to be present in a Country previously for reintroductions to take place. Elk were never present (as far is known) in Ireland so it would be extremely irresponsible to introduce them. One of tha main causes of loss of biodiversity worldwide is introductions of non-native species into an ecosystem.

robp

Hollzy wrote: »

This might interest some of you. I would rather see healthy deer populations in the area than an elk introduction. I think it's more important to establish species which are currently here before we plan anything more ambitious. I would love to see something along the lines of an apex predator reintroduction like the wolf at some point but there is no way that would be possible at this time - I wouldn't expect to see it in my lifetime to be honest. I realise that we're talking about a herbivore here so it's a very different scenario but I just don't see any need for the elk to be introduced to be honest.

http://www.gen.tcd.ie/molpopgen/link%20files/Great%20Irish%20elk%20was%20really%20an%20old%20deer.pdf

The wolf question is an interesting one. I wouldn't advocate it even though I deeply admire wolves. I don't think Ireland is too crowded per see, I suspect our problem is the type of agriculture which is dominant on our island. If you paired up Nephin with the rest of North Mayo you have a parcel of land equivalent in HA to some wolf pack's range but what is at the edge of the range is problematic. I live in a part of central Europe where wolves are recolonizing by themselves. It isn't the case they have many national parks here, actually there are very few. The population density is a lot higher then Ireland also. What is different here is that there is much bigger farms with lots of forestry, cereals and cows but far less sheep then Ireland. Mountain sheep are so vulnerable to wolves. Wolves here live off deer and they leave the cows and wheat alone. The abundance of mountain sheep in Ireland is hard to compare elsewhere.

recedite

Capercaille wrote: »

One of tha main causes of loss of biodiversity worldwide is introductions of non-native species into an ecosystem.

That is more relevant to predators, or species that out-compete the existing wildlife.
The existing grazing biodiversity in Mayo comprises Sika hybrids, Fallow deer, hares, rabbits, goats and sheep. Only the hares pass the "native species" test. There is of course a good case for the re-introduction of Red Deer, which could be obtained in Scotland or Kerry, although the fact that the hybrids are there already complicates the situation.
I merely suggested extending the remit to an interesting species that exists in similar habitat, in a slightly wider context (Northern Europe)
I don't expect many to agree, though.

Capercaille

recedite wrote: »

That is more relevant to predators, or species that out-compete the existing wildlife.
The existing grazing biodiversity in Mayo comprises Sika hybrids, Fallow deer, hares, rabbits, goats and sheep. Only the hares pass the "native species" test. There is of course a good case for the re-introduction of Red Deer, which could be obtained in Scotland or Kerry, although the fact that the hybrids are there already complicates the situation.
I merely suggested extending the remit to an interesting species that exists in similar habitat, in a slightly wider context (Northern Europe)
I don't expect many to agree, though.

Introduction of rabbit to Australia has caused loads of problems to native wildlife. Introduction of rats onto Seabird islands like the Saltees is causing huge problems as well unfortunately. Grey squirrels have done great damage to Red squirrel populations in Ireland.

astonaidan

Anyone up for a mass culling of Sika hybrids.
Also Mink, they are causing so much trouble in the west regarding poultry:mad:

steddyeddy

I think Ireland should tighten up or enfroce it's wildlife laws before introducing any further species to be honest. We still haven't properly protected the whitee tailed eagle IMO and until we deal with the various forces taking their dislike of a certain species into their own hands we can't re-introduce further species.

zenno

I wonder will they spoil it all by installing wind turbines onto this land in the near future ?

steddyeddy

zenno wrote: »

I wonder will they spoil it all by installing wind turbines onto this land in the near future ?

I don't think they can if it's a protected area?

robp

zenno wrote: »

I wonder will they spoil it all by installing wind turbines onto this land in the near future ?

There is already one and another which would be one of Europe's biggest land ones planned both in the cut away bog to the north at Bellacorick. Its is relatively close but I am not sure if it is visible from the wild Nephin site.

zenno

What a good eye-sore, There they are making something beautiful, and then what do they do...they go ahead and destroy it with this turbine crap.

locum-motion

One minute you are wondering if it might happen:

zenno wrote: »

I wonder will they spoil it all by installing wind turbines onto this land in the near future ?

The next, you are giving out about it as if there's a plan in place:

zenno wrote: »

What a good eye-sore, There they are making something beautiful, and then what do they do...they go ahead and destroy it with this turbine crap.

So, which is it?

zenno

locum-motion wrote: »

One minute you are wondering if it might happen:



The next, you are giving out about it as if there's a plan in place:



So, which is it?

Are you just after waking up ? with that sarcastic comment. read the post above mine...they already put a wind turbine on the land. jezz. read post #34

I was wondering if they would put a turbine on this land but when the comment above was said, i can see now that one was put on the land. Now do you understand the comments ?.

It's called questions, and then you get answers to enlighten yourself from your original question.

locum-motion

zenno wrote: »

...they already put a wind turbine on the land. jezz. read post #34...

Sorry, was reading quickly and must've skipped it accidentally!

feelgoodinc27

zenno wrote: »

What a good eye-sore, There they are making something beautiful, and then what do they do...they go ahead and destroy it with this turbine crap.

Thats purely subjective, I don't consider them an eyesore.

OpenYourEyes

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

Thats purely subjective, I don't consider them an eyesore.

It is subjective, but I get the impression from talking to people about them that the vast majority do consider them an eyesore!

robp

zenno wrote: »

Are you just after waking up ? with that sarcastic comment. read the post above mine...they already put a wind turbine on the land. jezz. read post #34

I was wondering if they would put a turbine on this land but when the comment above was said, i can see now that one was put on the land. Now do you understand the comments ?.

It's called questions, and then you get answers to enlighten yourself from your original question.

In fairness the Bellacorick site isn't the wild Nephin site. There is a couple of kms between. Maybe the Bellacorick windfarm can be seen from the north of the site but I am pretty sure from the centre the windfarm is not visible.

zenno

locum-motion wrote: »

Sorry, was reading quickly and must've skipped it accidentally!

No problem locum It happens. It's just a shame that they would put together this wilderness project and then stick those horrible electrical humming eye-sore masts in the wilderness. Ah well, what can we do as the owners of the land will make a load of cash every year on this.

zenno

robp wrote: »

In fairness the Bellacorick site isn't the wild Nephin site. There is a couple of kms between. Maybe the Bellacorick windfarm can be seen from the north of the site but I am pretty sure from the centre the windfarm is not visible.

Right, i got ye. Well once they don't plant them all over this wilderness then that's not bad. Will see down the line in the near future how this goes.

It's a great idea anyway and we need a good open wilderness on this small island. I just hope they don't ruin it that's all.

robp

feelgoodinc27 wrote: »

Thats purely subjective, I don't consider them an eyesore.

Well maybe you don't but they certainly are not compatible with a wilderness designation when there in view.

zenno wrote: »

Right, i got ye. Well once they don't plant them all over this wilderness then that's not bad. Will see down the line in the near future how this goes.

It's a great idea anyway and we need a good open wilderness on this small island. I just hope they don't ruin it that's all.

Me too. The Bellacorick land is owned by Bord na Mona who are known for windfarms construction on bog sites they have destroyed. Although it is a different site it did annoy me somewhat as the area of land there is enormous and the wild Nephin site could have been vastly bigger if Bord na Mona contributed.

Cork boy 55

16 minute video from Collite TV about Wild Nephin starring Enda Kenny

periodictable

Norwesterner wrote: »

Even more bizarre when you consider trees grow faster in Ireland than any other country in Europe.
As I said, were behind even Tunisia as regards tree plantation.
Has there been a declaration that this area will be replanted or does it just mean there will be no human interference?

FYI there are now HUGE restrictions on tree planting in Ireland-to plant more than 0.2 ha you actually have to apply for planning permission. An attempt was even made to bring in an order preventing landowners from planting shelter belts on their property, but it failed.
Re. broadleaves, in that particular area of Mayo, the best you can hope for is a mixture of birch, rowan and willow. Sheltered pockets of land may support oak. With a little initial help, it should diversify, and the pine will recover, so maybe a pine/birch cover could develop. Most broadleaves require very fertile and well drained soil. That land is now under agriculture, although formerly it would have been under forest. It could wind up looking like areas in western North America.
Please bear in mind the obstacles and mindless bureaucracy that has to be faced by those of us who would like to significantly afforest the countryside.