How would I know if RCD is bypassed?

baby fish

Hi,

My mam has RCD which was triping every now and again. Electrician suggested it could be bypassed. After some research We said we didn't want that because its not safe.

We think its a shower thats causing the fault so electrician put the shower on it own RCD switch which is a combined RCD and MCB switch to see if it trips.

I'm wondering, is there any way to know if the RCD for the shower is now bypassed so the problem just goes away?

I've pressed the test button on this this new swicth and it will trip the switch, is this a sign that everything is ok or will the switch trip anyway when tested even if its bypassed?

Hope that makes sense
Thanks

Were your sockets on this RCD too?

meercat

Firstly I wouldn't be bypassing your rcd
That won't solve the problem
Would wonder about your electrician for even suggesting that

Secondly it sounds like he fitted an rcbo to your shower
This works independent of your sockets

Try tripping your original rcd and see do your sockets still function

Post a pic of the fuse board if possible

mikehammer67

prob time to change electrician
if he's suggesting bypassing rcds

hufpc8w3adnk65

As was stated here post a picture.if you can isolate the main switch (generally bottom left of board) and remove the cover of the fuse box.take a picture then.just beware there will still be power on the incoming side of the main switch.

Your shower should not have been on the same circuit as your sockets too begin with.

mikehammer67

is there any need to remove covers?

2011

First off I agree with the above replies.

baby fish wrote: »

Hi,

My mam has RCD which was triping every now and again. Electrician suggested it could be bypassed. After some research We said we didn't want that because its not safe.

Smart move.

We think its a shower thats causing the fault so electrician put the shower on it own RCD switch which is a combined RCD and MCB switch to see if it trips.

If this is an instantanious type of shower (heats the water and pumps it) a seperate RCD is a required by the regulations (ET:101). The cominded MCB / RCD unit is known as an RCBO. A dedicated RCBO is also acceptable, which is what you have by the sounds of it.

I'm wondering, is there any way to know if the RCD for the shower is now bypassed so the problem just goes away?

Turn off the RCBO and see if the shower works.

I've pressed the test button on this this new swicth and it will trip the switch, is this a sign that everything is ok

This is an electrical test on the unit itself. It does not mean that the unit has not been bypassed.

or will the switch trip anyway when tested even if its bypassed?

This will trip even if it is bypassed.

I would not use an electrician that suggests bypassing such an important safety device.

Finding faults that cause RCDs to trip should not be that difficult a task for a qualified electrician.

mikehammer67

MrMac84 wrote: »

As was stated here post a picture.if you can isolate the main switch (generally bottom left of board) and remove the cover of the fuse box.take a picture then.just beware there will still be power on the incoming side of the main switch.

Your shower should not have been on the same circuit as your sockets too begin with.

the orginal shower may have been fitted before the requirement for independent rcd came in

hard to say from here anyhow

baby fish

First.. thanks for all replies

Suppose if we can keep in mind my first question, is it possible for an untrained person to see if an RCD/RCBO is bypassed?

Just to say that this electrician has done plenty of work for my parents in their old house and around the area and I've never heard of any complaints, its just in their new house this RCD has been tripping. I dont like the suggetion of bypassing a safety device so this is just where my fear comes from.At the end of the day it will be their call to get new electrician or not

the house is approx 1 year old so I presume latest building regs apply.

I'd prefer not post a pic of fuse board incase it is recognised!

hopefully a better description of fuse board will do instead of pic:

bottom left main fuse with electric cooker, lights , oil burner, solar panel to the right each on their own MCB

Middle row, first RCD( this is what was tripping and causing the circuits to the right of it to be knocked off). to the right of RCD are sockets, pumped shower( doesn't heat water) and shaver lights, immersion- each on their own MCB

Above this are MCBO for fridge, MCBO for electric shower ( heats water)


So changes are
pumped shower MCB in middle row removed,
New MCBO inserted in top row
Brown wire from shower connected to top of MCBO
Blue wire from shower connected to top of MCBO
Bottom of new MCBO connected to MCBo to its left with a blue and brown wire

Does this sound OK?

I have turned off new MCBO and shower/shaver lights dont work
I have turned off everything except new MCBo and shower/shaver lights work.

I cant see any obvious bypass, the only thing I'm not sure where it comes from is the BLUE wire inserted into top of new MCBO, could inserting a different blue wire( for example a blue wire from light circuit or any other circuit) prevent the shower from tripping the new MCBO and act as a bypass?

hufpc8w3adnk65

No one will recognise the inside of a fuse box.More or less they are all the same!

2011

baby fish wrote: »

Suppose if we can keep in mind my first question, is it possible for an untrained person to see if an RCD/RCBO is bypassed?

Yes, see my answer above in my last post.
Turn off the RCD (or RCBO) and see if the device(s) it is supposed to protect go off.

Just to say that this electrician has done plenty of work for my parents in their old house and around the area and I've never heard of any complaints

That means nothing. It is easy to get anything electrical working and to impress the average person that has no electrical training, the trick is to get it working and complying with the regulations at a competitive price. The average untrained person will not know if something is installed safely until something goes wrong.

I dont like the suggetion of bypassing a safety device so this is just where my fear comes from.

It is a legitimate fear that I share. RCD protection has been a requirement for sockets and instantaneous showers for at least 20 years.

the house is approx 1 year old so I presume latest building regs apply.

Absolutely and this is a very fundamental and important regulation. The fact that the installation is new should make the problem easier to find. This should not be a difficult problem for the average electrician to solve.

I'd prefer not post a pic of fuse board incase it is recognised!

Your call, but the chances of identifying the installation from this sort of photo are very remote.
Very hard to assist you without a picture.

As a number of us have stated an electrician that suggests bypassing an RCD either does not understand how important it is or does not care.

meercat

agree with 2011 o.p

if you read back his in detail answer and follow his instructions you will find out whether rcd is bypassed or not

baby fish

Ok, thanks for advice, I understand its difficult to discuss without a picture

I'd prefer not post a pic at the moment because I'm sure the installation is still fresh in his mind!!

2011, I have carried out this test , (leaving on main fuse)

I have turned off only the new MCBO for pumped shower/shaver lights -
result : only the pumped shower and shaver light stop working.

I have turned off everything - all MCBO's , MCB's and RCD , except the new MCBO for pumped shower/shaver .

result, the pumped shower and shaver light still work and everything else doesn't

I will get another electrician to call and look over it where it can be viewed up close

Thanks for replies and help:)

mikehammer67

yes
follow 2011s instructions

you prob shouldn't need to remove covers to confirm a bypass

you should be able to determine what circuits are protected and if the rcd/rcbo is functioning

baby fish

mikehammer67 wrote: »

yes
follow 2011s instructions

you prob shouldn't need to remove covers to confirm a bypass

you should be able to determine what circuits are protected and if the rcd/rcbo is functioning

Yes, think I have carried out this test with results in post above, post#13

thanks

hufpc8w3adnk65

He has a shaver light protected by a 40amp RCBO????

baby fish

Two pumped showers which dontt heat water and two shaver lights 2 are on a circuit and the RCBO for this circuit has numbers 30ma B10m on it

Bruthal

MrMac84 wrote: »

No one will recognise the inside of a fuse box.More or less they are all the same!

I don't know about that. Some are birds nests, some are tidy.

hufpc8w3adnk65

baby fish wrote: »

Two pumped showers which dontt heat water and two shaver lights 2 are on a circuit and the RCBO for this circuit has numbers 30ma B10m on it

Generally an electric shower is wired in 6 or 10mm2 twin and earth and on a seperate RCBO.dont know why they have lights and pumps looped off it.

hufpc8w3adnk65

Bruthal wrote: »

I don't know about that. Some are birds nests, some are tidy.

Ya the tidy ones were done during the Celtic tiger when you had and entire day too wire it and a million different sized tie wraps .now if its not done by lunch time you lose money so birds nest all the way ha ha ha!!!

Bruthal

MrMac84 wrote: »

Generally an electric shower is wired in 6 or 10mm2 twin and earth and on a seperate RCBO.dont know why they have lights and pumps looped off it.

Its not an electric heated shower, just a pumped mixer one by the look of it. Very small load.

mikehammer67

Bruthal wrote: »

Its not an electric heated shower, just a pumped mixer one by the look of it. Very small load.

you mean a power shower:pac:

baby fish

Yes , its two mixer showers that get hot water from cylinder and each have their own pump in them

Bruthal

mikehammer67 wrote: »

you mean a power shower:pac:

Yea. Funny how the ones that don't heat the water, are called power showers. Its all about the flow rate.

frankmul

Baby fish
I think from what you said in post 9 & 13, you have shown that there is nothing bypassed, the rcbo knocks the power off. I would see that as been proof enough

baby fish

frankmul wrote: »

Baby fish
I think from what you said in post 9 & 13, you have shown that there is nothing bypassed, the rcbo knocks the power off. I would see that as been proof enough

:DThanks , thats what we need to hear!!!

hufpc8w3adnk65

baby fish wrote: »

:DThanks , thats what we need to hear!!!

Is no one else worried that a 30ma rcbo is protecting two lights?

Bruthal

MrMac84 wrote: »

Is no one else worried that a 30ma rcbo is protecting two lights?

What would your worry be? They are used on bathroom lights now.

Calgary22

yea no worry its quite common now to have them on rcbo is it etci requirement though?:D

Anyone know where to get a cheaper 10 amp rcbo? cef charging 24.45:/ cause if its not i will be going with the 4 euro mcb