Management Company blocking an insurance claim on Block policy

Doodee

Hi there,

Looking for some information for my sister who is having problems with her management company & agent.
The story is that a leak happened in a second floor apartment. From what we understand the Management Agent was notified but (as we have experienced) might have dragged their heels in dealing with it and as such it spread down 2 floors, effecting the first floor apartment and my sisters, located on the ground floor.

Assessors, plumbers etc were sent out by the management company to make assessments and look at the damage caused. The damage to my sisters apartment resulted in the kitchen needing replacement, a substantial cost.
Now, there has been back and forth communications for a number of months and as a result my sister has employed a private loss adjuster to push forward a claim.

Today she received an email from this assessor who told her that the assessor from the insurance company has been contacted by the Brokers First Ireland, they have been contacted by the Management Company to advise that he should not deal with anyone on this Claim apart from the Management Co.

I am just wondering what rights does my sister have here as it has been ongoing for quite some time now and it would appear that the management company are reluctant to put in a claim.

What action would you advise that she take?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

kkelliher

Doodee wrote: »

Hi there,

Looking for some information for my sister who is having problems with her management company & agent.
The story is that a leak happened in a second floor apartment. From what we understand the Management Agent was notified but (as we have experienced) might have dragged their heels in dealing with it and as such it spread down 2 floors, effecting the first floor apartment and my sisters, located on the ground floor.

Assessors, plumbers etc were sent out by the management company to make assessments and look at the damage caused. The damage to my sisters apartment resulted in the kitchen needing replacement, a substantial cost.
Now, there has been back and forth communications for a number of months and as a result my sister has employed a private loss adjuster to push forward a claim.

Today she received an email from this assessor who told her that the assessor from the insurance company has been contacted by the Brokers First Ireland, they have been contacted by the Management Company to advise that he should not deal with anyone on this Claim apart from the Management Co.

I am just wondering what rights does my sister have here as it has been ongoing for quite some time now and it would appear that the management company are reluctant to put in a claim.

What action would you advise that she take?
Any help is appreciated.
Thanks

To start with and to clear up the different parties;

A loss adjuster works for the insurance company (there is only 1 therefore on the claim)

A loss assessor works for the insured (policyholder, effected partied etc)

The policyholder in this case is the management company, your sister is a member of the management company.

I dont understand why the loss assessor for the management company is not dealing with all the claims on behalf of the owners, this would make common sence (i dont know why your sister appointed her own)

the managing agent working on behalf of the management company is the policyholder and therefore your sister does not have a claim against a policy in her name and she must lodge the claim with the management agent on behalf of the management company.

I would feel there must be more to the storey as if assessors were appointed by the management company I cant see why a claim would bot have been lodged

dangerd

Thank you for your reply. Maybe I should explain further.

The management agent did employ an assessor but it was made clear to us by the assessor that he was employed only to find the leak and write a report which he did. He did offer his services to us to lodge a claim after this but we felt it was a conflict of interests to go with the same assessor. There was also a builder, plumber and carpenter brought in to repair the leak at different stages.

We employed our own assessor because we wanted someone who knew what they were doing due to the excessive damage to the kitchen and we thought this was standard going by what the management agent's assessor told us.

In the mean time we were contacted by the management agent to say they would inform the insurance company to advise them that we would be lodging a claim. The insurance company emailed us the claim form and called to start the ball rolling.

There were so many problems with the management agent and getting them to deal with the leak throughout this process before and after the insurance company first contacted us including them telling us they had checked all the above apartments and the leak had been fixed even though they had not actually done so.

Our assessor sent in the correct paper work after waiting weeks for the report to be sent out and last week he was contacted by the loss adjusters who asked for a copy of the form we signed to give him permission to deal with the claim. He told us that the management company had contacted the insurance company, who then contacted him and said they could not deal with anyone else but the management company.

Our assessor has never dealt with this situation before and said it is usually a straight forward process between himself and the moss adjusters.

I checked the name on the policy and the are two names. The management company and the management agent.

We have found the management agent so difficult to deal with and it has taken almost six months just to get it to this stage. Four months to find and repair the leak due to the difficulties dealing with the management agent. We just want this situation to be solved at this stage.

Paulw

If you are having problems dealing with the management agent, then write (registered letter) to the directors of the management company. Their contact details are available through the CRO website.

Either way, you have no ability to lodge a claim directly yourself. All claims must be made via the management company (or through the agent), since they hold the policy.

amtc

Nope.

Apartment over mine flowed into mine. I dealt with it directly.

Doodee

amtc wrote: »

Nope.

Apartment over mine flowed into mine. I dealt with it directly.

I take it things were fairly straight forward and you just put in your claim to the insurance company?

Paulw wrote: »

If you are having problems dealing with the management agent, then write (registered letter) to the directors of the management company. Their contact details are available through the CRO website.

Either way, you have no ability to lodge a claim directly yourself. All claims must be made via the management company (or through the agent), since they hold the policy.

What happens should the directors offer no help to resolve the issue? Who is liable in the event of a loss of earnings?

Paulw

Doodee wrote: »

What happens should the directors offer no help to resolve the issue? Who is liable in the event of a loss of earnings?

The directors of the management company are the top of the chain.

Loss of earnings? It's a residential unit, so there can be no loss of earnings.

The management company would have the insurance for the structure, but the unit owner should have their own insurance for contents.

Doodee

Paulw wrote: »

The directors of the management company are the top of the chain.

Loss of earnings? It's a residential unit, so there can be no loss of earnings.

The management company would have the insurance for the structure, but the unit owner should have their own insurance for contents.

There is a loss of earnings if you are a registered landlord and are renting out the property. Same way that you are taxed on that income.

I understand that the directors are top of the chain, and it is likely that the agent has to ask the directors for go ahead on any actions. If the directors are impeding the claim then what action can be taken against them other than just shouting at the AGM / EGM.

D3PO

OP a kitchen is contents. Why would that be covered under a block policy ?

Besides which your sister has gone about things arse about face even if it were covered. You cant just decide you are going to go get your own assessor and deal independently of the Management Company.

As far as I see it this isn't something for the block policy to deal with at all so no wonder they aren't assisting with your claim.

by the seaside

Maybe I'm missing the point.

Who do you think is liable? Who would you sue if there was no insurer and the liable party refused to engage?

If it is the management company, then your claim is against them. If they are insured, then all well and good. It is their problem to get the insurer involved. The insurer covers the management company against their loss - which is their liability for damage to your property. Threaten to sue them if they / the insurer are not playing ball, and don't make their insurer your problem. If it is less that E2000, go through the small claims court. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

If it is a neighbour, then likewise (although pragmatically speaking, in a more gentle approach), unless you don't want to get involved with suing neighbours, in which case you suffer the loss.

If it is you, then it is down to your insurer.

Or perhaps I have missed the point as I said above.

Doodee

by the seaside wrote: »

Maybe I'm missing the point.

Who do you think is liable? Who would you sue if there was no insurer and the liable party refused to engage?

If it is the management company, then your claim is against them. If they are insured, then all well and good. It is their problem to get the insurer involved. The insurer covers the management company against their loss - which is their liability for damage to your property. Threaten to sue them if they / the insurer are not playing ball, and don't make their insurer your problem. If it is less that E2000, go through the small claims court. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/courts_system/small_claims_court.html

If it is a neighbour, then likewise (although pragmatically speaking, in a more gentle approach), unless you don't want to get involved with suing neighbours, in which case you suffer the loss.

If it is you, then it is down to your insurer.

Or perhaps I have missed the point as I said above.

Thanks.

The assessor was brought in to represent my sisters interests, since they know the procedure involved with claims. As was mentioned, they have even said that the actions of the management company are not what they are used too.

The leak originated outside of the apartment, I believe in a public area. That would make it the responsibility of the management company.

A friend of mine once lost the cover from the insurer through non action of an agent. The management company had to foot the bill. I believe my sister is just trying to prevent something similar occurring.

athtrasna

Doodee wrote: »

The story is that a leak happened in a second floor apartment.

Doodee wrote: »

The leak originated outside of the apartment, I believe in a public area.

Which was it?? Big difference. If it was in the apartment it's the apartment owner's responsibility, if it was common area it's management company.

Paulw

Doodee wrote: »

There is a loss of earnings if you are a registered landlord and are renting out the property. Same way that you are taxed on that income.

Surely landlord insurance would be to cover that? The management company is not liable for landlord issues.

Doodee wrote: »

I understand that the directors are top of the chain, and it is likely that the agent has to ask the directors for go ahead on any actions. If the directors are impeding the claim then what action can be taken against them other than just shouting at the AGM / EGM.

Shouting never does anyone any good.

Don't forget that your sister, as a unit owner, is a member of the management company. She should check the insurance cover. Some policies, due to claims, etc now have a very high excess. The excess can be anything from 1k, to 5k or I have even seen some with 10k. So, the cost of repair may be greater than the excess, and if the management company does not have a good sinking fund, then repairs can take time, until funds are available.

dangerd

The leak originated from common waist pipes which took all the above apartments waist water away from the kitchens. Which was situation behind the kitchen.

Besides the unbelievable time we had getting the management agent to deal with and fix the problem properly, including them lying to us that they had located and fixed the leak even though they had not, the insurance situation seems to be going straight forward until now.

The management agent told the assessor they employed (only to locate the leak) that they did not want to deal with the landlords and he was to do so. This assessor offered his services to us as a separate roll then the roll he had with the management agent to take care of the claim at a cost to us and explained it was standard practice and would be easier to have one person deal with all the apartments claim's rather then individuals. The other apartment as far as I know have decided not to take action due to various reasons but this has not been confirmed. We took in our own assessor as we were led to believe by both assessor a that this was standard practice.

Up until this point the management agent has led us to believe that we would deal with the insurance company/loss adjusters directly. They said they would phone them to let them know we would be putting in a claim. The insurance company contacted us by phone and email several times over this period with regards to claim forms etc which they sent out to us by email. We were even cc'd on an email between the management agent and the insurance company asking if we the owners had sent in our claim form yet which we had.

Everything was happening directly with the insurance company up until now when our assessor was told that the management agent contacted the insurance company who contacted the loss adjuster to say they could deal with no one else but the management company. Our assessor has dealt with many apartment insurance claims and he said they usually deal directly with the insurance company. He said this has never happened before.

The management agent are impossible to deal with and never get back to me. How can we get things done. The damage to the kitchen is substantial and is more then 2000. The entire kitchen is saturated and has to be gutted.

dangerd

Hi paulw, thanks for your advice. The excess is large but the repair will cost more then this.