Milk replacer - Feeding rates?

dungfly

I am using Maverick milk replacer as recommended 300g/calf/feed twice daily. As the calves progress when and what rates should I increase the powder used. Some calves are nearly weaned, some are half weaned. I have not been very impressed at growth rates. Currently calves are getting
-Milk replacer
-Multivitamin
-Electrolyte (glucose, sodium & potassium salts & baking soda)

RaggyDays

Put 2 good spoonfuls per calf of Natural Yogurt into the mix.
I used the Lidl stuff in the 1kg pots, great value and good stuff to add some fat to the bucket fed calves

bbam

dungfly wrote: »

I am using Maverick milk replacer as recommended 300g/calf/feed twice daily. As the calves progress when and what rates should I increase the powder used. Some calves are nearly weaned, some are half weaned. I have not been very impressed at growth rates. Currently calves are getting
-Milk replacer
-Multivitamin
-Electrolyte (glucose, sodium & potassium salts & baking soda)

Why are they getting multivitamin and electrolyte as a regular routine. ???

Also they should be on a high protine crunch, fresh clean barly straw and clean water.
They won't wean unless they're eating a kg of 18-19% crunch and a good supply of water.

sh1tstirrer

dungfly wrote: »

I am using Maverick milk replacer as recommended 300g/calf/feed twice daily. As the calves progress when and what rates should I increase the powder used. Some calves are nearly weaned, some are half weaned. I have not been very impressed at growth rates. Currently calves are getting
-Milk replacer
-Multivitamin
-Electrolyte (glucose, sodium & potassium salts & baking soda)

I never had great success with whey based milk replacer. I use a skim based replacer now and the calves thrive on it. The skim based replacer takes longer to digest where as the whey based runs through them.

larrymiller

At peak feeding I use 4 liters of water and one scoop per calf (I'm not sure what my size my "scoop" is but it's what I've been using for years) twice a day,at evening feed I give a small bit less. I feed a mix of crunch and calf nuts together, good hay, and nice fesh straw everyday, clean water (I swear they sh!t in it on purpose), make sure that there eating plenty of solids before weaning, and i also am very carefull not to burst them open with milk, it will go straight through them.
Also when I start feeding I'm using 3 liters of water and a half the scoop for about a week, then the full dose as I said, then feed the full dose for 2-3 weeks depending on amount of solids calfs eating and just the general condition of the calf.
At weaning gradually bring down the tempeture of the water and the amount of milk and water for about a week, near the end I just throw a small bit of powder in cold water and they don't have much interest in it so they just go straight for the nuts.

ootbitb

Using Volac Olympian as it says on the bag: 100 grammes per litre. 4l per day.

All went well til the batch no. changed and the scour started.

Intention next year is to pre buy off the one pallet.

bbam

ootbitb wrote: »

Using Volac Olympian as it says on the bag: 100 grammes per litre. 4l per day.

All went well til the batch no. changed and the scour started.

Intention next year is to pre buy off the one pallet.

Think that's what we use.
Bought 13 bags up front, got it for €26 a bag too which is good value.
Will be short one bag but will have reared 22 calves on the 14 bags.

I disagree with making it either stronger or weaker than the instructions say as its designed to be a certain way.
At weaning we usually stop the morning feed for a week and then after another week stop the evening.

The bag says wean when they are eating 1kg crunch a day. We usually let them on at that level for a week anyway and then wean.

Once to good grass we get them over to regular 16% beef nut fairly quick as its cheaper and they don't need so much supplementation then.


Op says he's disappointed with growth. If your used to or comparing them to sucked calves, there's your problem, it's just not going to happen at the same rate.
We aim for 380kg at 14 months good HEX bulls mostly make it, heifers not so much.
I'd say at a guess 350/360 kg at that age is more the norm.
They seem to do much better after month six.

Never give hay, only to a sick calf.
Barly straw and silage if it's handy and they are near weaning.

Scours come and go. Nothing too bad usually.

dungfly

RaggyDays wrote: »

Put 2 good spoonfuls per calf of Natural Yogurt into the mix.
I used the Lidl stuff in the 1kg pots, great value and good stuff to add some fat to the bucket fed calves

When using yogurt you just add it to the milk. Is this pointless as you are not cultivating the same probiotics (bugs) to grow at each feed. Or am I missing something here.

Teagasc recommends
"Teagasc in Grange recommends the following method:
 Add three bottles of Actimil natural yogurt to two pints of warm milk. Store in a flask and stand for 12 hours. The idea of the flask is to keep the milk as warm as long as possible. The bacteria multiply faster when the milk is warm.
 Empty the contents of the flash into three gallons of warm milk and keep for 24 hrs. Ideally this should be kept warm overnight i.e. in a hot press if you can get away with it or near a solid fuel cooker/boiler house. At the end of this period, the milk should have a thick consistency. The pH will be under five and the milk will be slightly sour.
 Now take this three gallons and add it to 40 gallons of warm milk and leave overnight. The product is now ready for feeding the next morning. The yogurt milk should have a thick consistency if you have been successful in making up the culture.
However, when you feed the calves the next morning, always leave three to four gallons of yogurt milk in the bottom of the container. This is approximately 10pc of the total amount of milk in the barrel.
This is your starter for the next feed and the next one after that.
The beauty of this system is that there is no need to wash buckets or containers after the calves have used them. This will speed up the whole business of feeding the calves. Yogurt milk is a live culture and it will not deteriorate."

dungfly

bbam wrote: »

Why are they getting multivitamin and electrolyte as a regular routine. ???

Also they should be on a high protine crunch, fresh clean barly straw and clean water.
They won't wean unless they're eating a kg of 18-19% crunch and a good supply of water.

Just to clarify. Currently calves are getting
-Milk replacer
-Multivitamin
-Electrolyte (glucose, sodium & potassium salts & baking soda)
-Raw Egg
-Straw
-Crunch
-Water

Regular electrolyte as I don't want them dehydrated.

bbam

dungfly wrote: »

Just to clarify. Currently calves are getting
-Milk replacer
-Multivitamin
-Electrolyte (glucose, sodium & potassium salts & baking soda)
-Raw Egg
-Straw
-Crunch
-Water

Regular electrolyte as I don't want them dehydrated.

Personally I only give electrolyte if a calf has a scour or is sick..
Multivit shot maybe once or twice...
Eggs again only if they have been sick, but if you have a good supply its a good protein boost..

But your calves should do well on that routine..
What breeds are they and what ages ??

ootbitb

dungfly wrote: »

When using yogurt you just add it to the milk. Is this pointless as you are not cultivating the same probiotics (bugs) to grow at each feed. Or am I missing something here.

Teagasc recommends
"Teagasc in Grange recommends the following method:
 Add three bottles of Actimil natural yogurt to two pints of warm milk. Store in a flask and stand for 12 hours. The idea of the flask is to keep the milk as warm as long as possible. The bacteria multiply faster when the milk is warm.
 Empty the contents of the flash into three gallons of warm milk and keep for 24 hrs. Ideally this should be kept warm overnight i.e. in a hot press if you can get away with it or near a solid fuel cooker/boiler house. At the end of this period, the milk should have a thick consistency. The pH will be under five and the milk will be slightly sour.
 Now take this three gallons and add it to 40 gallons of warm milk and leave overnight. The product is now ready for feeding the next morning. The yogurt milk should have a thick consistency if you have been successful in making up the culture.
However, when you feed the calves the next morning, always leave three to four gallons of yogurt milk in the bottom of the container. This is approximately 10pc of the total amount of milk in the barrel.
This is your starter for the next feed and the next one after that.
The beauty of this system is that there is no need to wash buckets or containers after the calves have used them. This will speed up the whole business of feeding the calves. Yogurt milk is a live culture and it will not deteriorate."

that would save a lot of work alright but can you produce yoghurt from milk replacer?

mahoney_j

Im using maverick but only feeding once a day.From birth to day 10 they are feed twice a day on cows milk.On day 11 switch to powder (600 grammes in 3 ltrs).From day 20 they go to 750 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.From day 30 to 800 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.Calves have a ccess to straw fresh water and a 18% nut at all times and they are absoutely flying on that regime with no scours etc.

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Im using maverick but only feeding once a day.From birth to day 10 they are feed twice a day on cows milk.On day 11 switch to powder (600 grammes in 3 ltrs).From day 20 they go to 750 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.From day 30 to 800 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.Calves have a ccess to straw fresh water and a 18% nut at all times and they are absoutely flying on that regime with no scours etc.

As above but we are using Shine OAD

moy83

delaval wrote: »

As above but we are using Shine OAD

Is it cheaper to use powder milk rather than take it out of the tank ?

delaval

moy83 wrote: »

Is it cheaper to use powder milk rather than take it out of the tank ?

Yes, also better calves and more convenient. They eat a lot more solids quicker

oxjkqg

ours on milkavit 1 kg of powder per 3 calves to 14litres of luke warm water once a day. gradually drop the amount u give them when u think there at the weight and there eatin plenty nuts & crunch/hay & straw to weab. find that once a day really got them goin on the nuts/crunch

delaval

mahoney_j wrote: »

Im using maverick but only feeding once a day.From birth to day 10 they are feed twice a day on cows milk.On day 11 switch to powder (600 grammes in 3 ltrs).From day 20 they go to 750 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.From day 30 to 800 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.Calves have a ccess to straw fresh water and a 18% nut at all times and they are absoutely flying on that regime with no scours etc.

I didn't know Maverick was OAD. How much are you paying, we are paying €56/25kg bag

Have you weaned any of your early calves?

sh1tstirrer

ootbitb wrote: »

that would save a lot of work alright but can you produce yoghurt from milk replacer?

You can, a few years ago a New Zealand farmer was rearing lambs on calf milk replacer but had problems with bloat in the lambs. The cause of the bloat was the calf milk replacer, he was advised to make yogurt out of the milk replacer and it cured the problem. The reason he was feeding calf milk replacer over lamb milk replacer was that that calf replacer was cheaper.

sh1tstirrer

oxjkqg wrote: »

ours on milkavit 1 kg of powder per 3 calves to 14litres of luke warm water once a day. gradually drop the amount u give them when u think there at the weight and there eatin plenty nuts & crunch/hay & straw to weab. find that once a day really got them goin on the nuts/crunch

Jayus, it's a long time since I last saw milkavit. Are they still making it?

oxjkqg

yeee local merchant had it 39.50 a bag. hes sum heap of it sold this spring. co-op has maverick n all them alright. we normally just use tank milk but have a big batch a heifers so changed to replacer. not much experience with replacer but milkavit seems to give good results!!

sh1tstirrer

oxjkqg wrote: »

yeee local merchant had it 39.50 a bag. hes sum heap of it sold this spring. co-op has maverick n all them alright. we normally just use tank milk but have a big batch a heifers so changed to replacer. not much experience with replacer but milkavit seems to give good results!!

We used to use it back in the late 70's. Is it whey or skim based?

oxjkqg

whey as far as i no. jaysus dat was back in the olden days!!

shy_boy

bbam wrote: »

Think that's what we use.
Bought 13 bags up front, got it for €26 a bag too which is good value.
Will be short one bag but will have reared 22 calves on the 14 bags.

I disagree with making it either stronger or weaker than the instructions say as its designed to be a certain way.
At weaning we usually stop the morning feed for a week and then after another week stop the evening.

The bag says wean when they are eating 1kg crunch a day. We usually let them on at that level for a week anyway and then wean.

Once to good grass we get them over to regular 16% beef nut fairly quick as its cheaper and they don't need so much supplementation then.


Op says he's disappointed with growth. If your used to or comparing them to sucked calves, there's your problem, it's just not going to happen at the same rate.
We aim for 380kg at 14 months good HEX bulls mostly make it, heifers not so much.
I'd say at a guess 350/360 kg at that age is more the norm.
They seem to do much better after month six.

Never give hay, only to a sick calf.
Barly straw and silage if it's handy and they are near weaning.

Scours come and go. Nothing too bad usually.

started rearing a few calves last year and got another few this spring iv always fed the on twice a day 250g each i think it is twice a day (Gain milkreplacer) havent had any serious scoury so i tink it works with plenty of fresh water, hay and straw
I was talking to a neighbour farmer and he said he has never fed hay to calves why is this?

oxjkqg

shy_boy wrote: »

started rearing a few calves last year and got another few this spring iv always fed the on twice a day 250g each i think it is twice a day (Gain milkreplacer) havent had any serious scoury so i tink it works with plenty of fresh water, hay and straw
I was talking to a neighbour farmer and he said he has never fed hay to calves why is this?

makes em more kinda pot bellied than gettin bigger all round.

F.D

We are using Milkivit, feeding it once a day as well finding it good so far, really thing they are going onto meal and straw quicker than the twice aday we done last year,
we find hay to make them pot bellied as well, one batch of calves were slow taking to the straw i put some hay in as well and straight away they were choked up and coughing from the dust removed the hay problem solved
We have straw bales from a part of the field that missed a spray so some grass in it the calves lap it up

lakill Farm

BBAM €26 a bag? where?

bbam wrote: »

Think that's what we use.
Bought 13 bags up front, got it for €26 a bag too which is good value.
Will be short one bag but will have reared 22 calves on the 14 bags.

I disagree with making it either stronger or weaker than the instructions say as its designed to be a certain way.
At weaning we usually stop the morning feed for a week and then after another week stop the evening.

The bag says wean when they are eating 1kg crunch a day. We usually let them on at that level for a week anyway and then wean.

Once to good grass we get them over to regular 16% beef nut fairly quick as its cheaper and they don't need so much supplementation then.


Op says he's disappointed with growth. If your used to or comparing them to sucked calves, there's your problem, it's just not going to happen at the same rate.
We aim for 380kg at 14 months good HEX bulls mostly make it, heifers not so much.
I'd say at a guess 350/360 kg at that age is more the norm.
They seem to do much better after month six.

Never give hay, only to a sick calf.
Barly straw and silage if it's handy and they are near weaning.

Scours come and go. Nothing too bad usually.

bbam

lakill Farm wrote: »

BBAM €26 a bag? where?

Maudabawn Co Op.
Near Cootehill.
Find them goo to deal if you buy a bit and have cheque book out.

lakill Farm

bbam wrote: »

Maudabawn Co Op.
Near Cootehill.
Find them goo to deal if you buy a bit and have cheque book out.

Jesus thats a great price.

ootbitb

lakill Farm wrote: »

Jesus thats a great price.

Do they deliver to Donegal?

Connacht Gold charging me e37 cash for same product.

mahoney_j

delaval wrote: »

I didn't know Maverick was OAD. How much are you paying, we are paying €56/25kg bag

Have you weaned any of your early calves?

Using triple a golden maverick but theres also a maverick once a day.Talked to una hickey from volac in mid jan and it was she who reccomended using triple a and the feeding rates.Started to wean anything born up to 10 feb from monday this week.Will fully wean off over a week slowly bringing down powder concenteration each day.Paying 42 bucks a bag for it.I wanted to use shine but would of had to buy it by the pallet,Bought a full load of fert in jan instead so powder lost out

sh1tstirrer

delaval wrote: »

As above but we are using Shine OAD

How much are you paying for it?

delaval

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

How much are you paying for it?

€52 / bag I bought a pallet. Glanbia give 10 bags Startacalf 'free' with pallet.

ootbitb

The whey based is much cheaper so is skim worth the extra?

delaval

ootbitb wrote: »

The whey based is much cheaper so is skim worth the extra?

Skim far superior IMO.
I have a friend who rears 400 heifer calves and he uses the cheapest milk replacer that can be bought, I have to admit his heifers are as good as you'll see anywhere........ so go figure

bbam

delaval wrote: »

Skim far superior IMO.
I have a friend who rears 400 heifer calves and he uses the cheapest milk replacer that can be bought, I have to admit his heifers are as good as you'll see anywhere........ so go figure

I think if your setup and system is real good, you wean as early as possible. it can be done on the lesser priced products.
A bit of luck is no harm either :cool:

sh1tstirrer

delaval wrote: »

€52 / bag I bought a pallet. Glanbia give 10 bags Startacalf 'free' with pallet.

I bought 2 bags last week €49/bag.

dungfly

Do you increase the amount of milk replacer powder as the calf gets older? I notice that the Maverick bag says 300g for twice a day but makes no mention of increasing the powder over time. This would seem to be different to whole milk feeding where the milk volume is increased as the animal gets older?

ootbitb

dungfly wrote: »

Do you increase the amount of milk replacer powder as the calf gets older? I notice that the Maverick bag says 300g for twice a day but makes no mention of increasing the powder over time. This would seem to be different to whole milk feeding where the milk volume is increased as the animal gets older?

Most rearers want to get them off milk asap and onto cheaper and less hassle nuts/ roughage so increased volume would defeat that objective.

dungfly

ootbitb wrote: »

Most rearers want to get them off milk asap and onto cheaper and less hassle nuts/ roughage so increased volume would defeat that objective.

Not necessarily. When feeding whole milk the volume is increased as growth progresses. Weaning takes place at a later stage. I am comparing this situtation with milk replacer bag instructions which does not state any increase in powder levels. Do any of you vary the powder rates or do you all maintain the same level of powder throughout?

ootbitb

Dairymen feeding whole milk is a different situation.

I imagine at times of over quota the milk was better in the calf than down the drain.

I would also be wary of making the milk stronger from a scour perspective.

mahoney_j

lADS go back to page 1 i think,I feed all powder from day 10 at higher than reccomended rates and no problems.My orignal post has feeding rates etc

dungfly

mahoney_j wrote: »

Im using maverick but only feeding once a day.From birth to day 10 they are feed twice a day on cows milk.On day 11 switch to powder (600 grammes in 3 ltrs).From day 20 they go to 750 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.From day 30 to 800 grammes in 3 ltrs once a day.Calves have a ccess to straw fresh water and a 18% nut at all times and they are absoutely flying on that regime with no scours etc.

Whats your logic for this approach? Where did you get this idea from? Have you modified it n the past?

bbam

Within reason I'm not sure if the concentration of milk replacer would scour them, look at the OAD and its a different concentration..

However, it may fill them more, thus lessening the desire to eat ration, thus delaying weaning which is bad..

mahoney_j

dungfly wrote: »

Whats your logic for this approach? Where did you get this idea from? Have you modified it n the past?

Have holstein calves and want to m axmise growth rates.Feeding regime was in conjunction with una hickey from volac.It works extremely well,Calves are healthy and eat lots of nuts and straw.Havnt used a synoloux tablet or electrolyte on a calf yet this year.Labour saving is also a big thing for me,Feed calves around 12 o clock and just walk through pens at 6 o clock after milking in evening

mahoney_j

bbam wrote: »

Within reason I'm not sure if the concentration of milk replacer would scour them, look at the OAD and its a different concentration..

However, it may fill them more, thus lessening the desire to eat ration, thus delaying weaning which is bad..

No scours and certainly no roblems eating meal or straw.In fact id say they are eating more meal now than when i was feeding whole milk 2 years ago.Weaning also not delayed and if anything can be a week to 10 days earlier

dungfly

Does anyone else vary the milk replacer levels?
Also does it make sense to supplement the powder with raw eggs? Any ideas on varying the protein:fat ratio?

ootbitb

A N.I. company extolling it's product.

http://www.rwn.org.uk/rwn_Cow_Calf_Milk_Replacers.htm


This bit interests me as once a day is tempting:

Milk replacers that claim to contain milk, but make no reference to skim milk powder or buttermilk are unsuitable for once-a-day feeding because they contain no casein protein. These products are usually based on whey and vegetable proteins and are flushed through the calf’s digestive system in only a few hours, so are wholly unsuitable for a once-a-day feeding regime.