Nearly Bought A "UK Category D Write Off" Today

Hiawog

I was about to purchase a car this week from an independent dealer when something the salesman said tweaked my concern. Every time I mentioned their warranty, he replied 'engine and gearbox only'.

I started checking with the motorcheck.ie free check to discover it was a UK import. That's not a problem but a car's change of jurisdiction (export/import) can be a place to conceal history.

The dealer had just completed the NCT as I'd put down a deposit. I then called the NCT people who confirmed it and said it was the fourth NCT pass since it's import in 2006.

Great I thought, I was back on message. I called a Volkswagen main dealer to book their free vehicle health check and make an appointment for a timing belt change. While I was expressing my worries, they kindly put the registration number into the SIMI database to reveal it was a UK Category D write off.

This really didn't bother me either as a 'D' write off is usually done for economical reasons. They are damaged but repairable or stolen and recovered. Categories A and B are for the crusher while C's are severely damaged cars.

This is where the problems start though. The re-sale value is diminished as potential customers will simply pass you over when they see 'write off' in a Cartell/Motorcheck report - regardless of category.

The big problem, however, is insurance. I contacted my insurer today. As an 'existing customer' they will insure me if I provide 'an independent engineers report'. The NCT won't satisfy them nor will any report from the dealer selling the car.

Had I bought the car and not told them, I may have been driving uninsured. Even if I did inform them and provided a report, any payout after an accident could be seriously reduced as the car is already a 'write off'.

What is remarkable to me is this; while I have all these obligations such as license, NCT, insurance and road tax, there is no obligation on anyone to provide that significant piece of information that determines my insurance status - despite me having paid for the insurance.

Here is old thread about a 'Cat D' purchase, http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80584049

Kamili

I had a similar issue with my insurer insisting the car I had purchased was a write off. The car had a fresh NCT on it and I had a mechanic check it thoroughly. No sign of why it could have been a write off. It simply didn't make sense.
Insurance were demanding an engineers report to prove car was road worthy. NCT would not suffice.
So I pushed them on it. Asked them why the NCT which was accepted by the state as a certificate of roadworthyness wasn't good enough. Things immediately changed, no explaination! Very odd.

BMJD

any link to the car?

Hiawog

To be fair, the dealers say they bought the car from a main dealer in good faith and felt they had no need to double check its historical credentials. It would have come to them as a tempting low book value, I imagine, especially as the popular Beetle, with such a gorgeous unique red paintwork, a lovely leather interior and low mileage for 2001, it may be unfair to link to them directly. I've lost the €200 deposit, I argued unsuccessfully, but a cheap lesson in the long run. The Gardai offered to call round but it'd be useless legally, I'll take my medicine.

Tea 1000

Hiawog wrote: »

I was about to purchase a car this week from an independent dealer when something the salesman said tweaked my concern. Every time I mentioned their warranty, he replied 'engine and gearbox only'.

In fairness, this is standard enough for used cars. That wouldn't tweak my concern at all. However, checking it like you did subsequently is what you should have done anyway. Cartell should tell you it's UK history too. Did it not?

colm_mcm

I can't see why you wouldn't get your deposit back. The fact that they're selling it when it needs a timing belt doesn't make them look great either.

deegs

Tbh, I'm not really sure you will loose much on potential resale... its allready about as depreciated as it can go... in 3 years it will be a 15year old car and I doubt people will care if its been in a crash 10 years previously... espcially if you get an engineers report. I have a classic and engineers reports are not all that unusual or expensive...

I'd say buy it and reclaim your deposit!

Hiawog

Thanks Guys, it's all good advice. There are two obstacles with the first being that the relationship with the dealer has deteriorated, and it may be my obstinate pride, but I don't feel like going back and asking for the car for an hour or two for the VW check.

Secondly, AXA cannot quote me accurately on the car. When you're approaching renewal (4 to 6 weeks), any car you buy is automatically insured at no extra cost. However, the system AXA have puts your policy into some kind of hiatus making an accurate quote for a subsequent year impossible.

They say it should be no more than €75 to €100 over the '99 Clio I have but the engineers report may (might, possibly...all those words) vary that. The damage will determine it.

Here's my guesswork maths on the damage:

Original car cost: £20,000
Depreciation at 2006 £10,000
Write-off level at 51% and over damage costs £5,100
Hence, damage value £5,100 to £10,000

The 51% value is something I discovered on a UK forum. Either way, it looks like a lot of damage to me to warrant a write off.

Henry Ford III

Get your deposit back.

Ask for it in writing detailing the reason you didn't go through with it (undisclosed Cat D w.o.) and give them a timeframe. 10 days.

Reserve your right to take a legal course of action should they not make the appropriate refund. Small claims court is ideal for this.

They haven't a leg to stand on.

ironclaw

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Get your deposit back.

Ask for it in writing detailing the reason you didn't go through with it (undisclosed Cat D w.o.) and give them a timeframe. 10 days.

Reserve your right to take a legal course of action should they not make the appropriate refund. Small claims court is ideal for this.

They haven't a leg to stand on.

Just on the flip side, and out of interest, what legal basis does the OP have to the refund back? Granted as a sign of good faith they should but unless it was being mis-sold or the OP mislead, I don't think the OP has a legal basis for a deposit return.

As it was Cat. D write off, its not a dangerous car to sell. The Eng. report is just an insurance desk-jockey flexing the muscles. They see 'Category' and read no further. A category D could literally be excessive paint damage.

Henry Ford III

ironclaw wrote: »

Just on the flip side, and out of interest, what legal basis does the OP have to the refund back? Granted as a sign of good faith they should but unless it was being mis-sold or the OP mislead, I don't think the OP has a legal basis for a deposit return.

As it was Cat. D write off, its not a dangerous car to sell. The Eng. report is just an insurance desk-jockey flexing the muscles. They see 'Category' and read no further. A category D could literally be excessive paint damage.

Yes, but the point is a well run dealership would have done a data check on the car, and it'd have then been described and priced properly.

The car wasn't as described, and a dealership can't reasonably defend that by saying "we didn't check".

Hiawog

Thanks Henry,

Admittedly, I just had to Google 'Henry Ford III'.

My feelings are the same and everything you say may well be right. His liability is reduced, however, as he says he had no knowledge. In addition, four Irish NCT's since importation have declared the car roadworthy and safe.

He will claim his business has been affected by holding the car while he turned away other potential buyers and is therefore entitled to the deposit. Judgement could go either way or liability split 50/50.

Check this link for a thread under their old company name, I would be chasing my tail for a long time, so I'll take my medicine and start a thread instead. That'll be my value.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056872730&page=3

Henry Ford III

I'm not suggesting the car was unsafe at all, just that the dealer was trying to sell a car at full value, notwithstanding the fact that it was a w.o.

The only reason he'd not have known about that was because of laziness (or convenient ignoring of the truth).

Either way it's unprofessional, and shouldn't have cost you €200.

In any event it's your own call.



p.s. I wouldn't have left such a hefty deposit.