Dublin Rapid Transit Study 1975

thisisadamh

Hello,
I was reading the above study in the library yesterday and in it were many plans for underground rail through the city center.
It seems that phase 1 of the preferred plan was the DART system we have now, then phase 2 and so on Bray rail line going underground through the city center and on towards Blanchardstown. Another line going underground East-West much like the Dart underground plans except splitting after Inchicore going towards Tallaight. The current Luas Green Line was proposed as dedicated Busway.

Why was the rest of the phases not built? And why are we not going underground through the city center with Luas?

n97 mini

Probably money.

There was a boom in the late 70s, fuelled by government borrowing that would make the more recent boom seem modest. The recession in the mid-80s was the hangover. By the time the 90s came around, a report written in the mid-70s won't get looked at.

Con Logue

thisisadamh wrote: »

Hello,
I was reading the above study in the library yesterday and in it were many plans for underground rail through the city center.
It seems that phase 1 of the preferred plan was the DART system we have now, then phase 2 and so on Bray rail line going underground through the city center and on towards Blanchardstown. Another line going underground East-West much like the Dart underground plans except splitting after Inchicore going towards Tallaight. The current Luas Green Line was proposed as dedicated Busway.

Why was the rest of the phases not built? And why are we not going underground through the city center with Luas?

Ahh, an old pet subject of mine. I used to post once upon a time as Ronald Binge here and at the time of the Luas construction I posted a good bit on this subject, to combat some of the more bizarre disinformation that was floating out there at the time like an unflushable turd.

I have an essay to get in for my Open University course before next Tuesday so can't stay long here but will give you a bit of a summary.

The DRRTS was adopted by CIE and the Government in 1975 as being agreed in principle, subject to funding. At this stage the rolling stock being used on the coastal line, the only suburban rail then in existence, was beyond life expired, being the 1950s AEC railcars de-engined and turned into Push-Pull sets with the most appalling interiors you ever saw on a railway, anywhere, consisting of puke coloured paint lined in turd brown with green and orange stacking chairs bolted to the walls.

In spite of this, the suburban railway refused to die and on the few Sundays it ran during the summer was packed to the gills with trippers going to Howth and Bray. Additional stations were (re)opened during the seventies at Sydney Parade, Booterstown, Bayside, Kilbarrack and Shankill and did well.

This wasn't good enough for the road lobby and individuals such as Sean Barrett of TCD fame attempted to drum up support for the coastal railway to be closed, lifted and replaced with an Eastern Bypass Motorway.

1979 was a turning point, it might seem quaint now but the efficency of the railway in moving huge numbers of pilgrims to and from the Pope's Masses copped on many of the powers that be of just how useful the railway could be. In the meantime, as an election gimmick, Jack Lynch announced that the Government would implement Stage One of the DRRTS scheme. For the next five years, while European funds were siphoned off the project and delayed its implementation, pot shots were being taken by Right leaning commentators, that the DART was going to be a white elephant etc.

It wasn't and was a success from the start.

Garret FitzGerald was Taoiseach at the time of its implementation, and while professing to be a railway enthusiast was in practice anything but. He allowed Haughey to upstage him, postponing the official opening three months after the service was launched and claiming that he would never have implemented the scheme if FG had been in power at the time of its implemenation. He also binned the future stages. Stage Two was to have been four tracking from Heuston to Cherry Orchard, with a line to Tallaght branching off from there, running along what is now the M50 to the Red Cow and along what is now the Luas line to Tallaght. CIE had purchased the land AFAIK and the Red Line runs that way for that very reason.

Stage Three was to have been the construction of the underground link from Heuston via the South Quays to Temple Bar, Tara Street and Clontarf Road. CIE had brought Temple Bar and was going to construct an integrated Central bus and rail station there. Stage Three nearly happened when a FG Backbencher, Liam Skelly secured funding from a Canadian consortium to develop this but it got scuppered by an alliance of conservationists and the same lobbyists that objected to the construction of the DART in the first place.

A branch from what is now the Blanchardstown Centre was to run onto the Western line, and run into Broadstone, going underground from there to Central and out to Sandymount via Merrion Square. A further branch off the western line was to run to Ballymun and potentially the Airport.

The plans also included two busways, one on the Harcourt Street line to Dundrum. It was alleged that this was chosen to avoid treading on the toes of the still living Tod Andrews. The other busway was to run from Tallaght via Templeogue to Mount Argus. Land was set aside for this and then promptly rezoned by Dublin Corporation and the County Council. If the alignment had been left alone it would have been a positive boon for one of the most car dependent parts of Dublin.

Essentially, FG/Labour and then FF decided in the late 80s that this sensible plan wasn't going to happen. In many ways it was superceded by development west of the City in North Kildare. The service to Maynooth was instated in 1981 in a grudging and half hearted way by CIE due purely to political pressure, as there were three General Elections in eighteen months during this time.

At one point in 1988 it had been definitively decided that instead of DART more intensive diesel train services would be implemented on the Maynooth line and a diesel service would run from Clondalkin to Pearse via the Phoenix Park tunnel. Two busways would be provided from Dundrum and Tallaght. As it happened, when feasibility studies got under way, it was discovered that houses had been built on crucial points of the Tallaght Busway, and that the traffic on the erstwhile Harcourt Street line would justify some form of rail service. So Luas was born. Again, the woodwork squeaked and out came the objectors, who again delayed the project and caused the lines to be rerouted twice and the central section via Dawson Street removed.

That's enough for now!

Sponge Bob

Wasnt that the notorious study that wanted to concrete over the 2 canals and turn them into the urban motorways so beloved of EG Birmingham in the 1960s....and sure a few 'economists' probably got a handy state grant to 'study' Birmingham and all and wanted another state grant to 'study' Tokyo the following year and Los Angelus the year after.

Con Logue

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Wasnt that the notorious study that wanted to concrete over the 2 canals and turn them into the urban motorways so beloved of EG Birmingham in the 1960s....and sure a few 'economists' probably got a handy state grant to 'study' Birmingham and all.

The Dublin Transportation Study was that one, sometime around 1971. That was the report which lead to the C-Ring motorway and Eastern Bypass proposals. Thankfully the canal recommendation was ignored.

However, no canals were harmed in The Dublin Rail Rapid Transport Study, which was a separate report four years later.

Sponge Bob

Thanks Con. I got me DTS stuck rightly up me DRRTS there.

Con Logue

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Thanks Con. I got me DTS stuck rightly up me DRRTS there.

Indeed. Just as well the name C-Ring didn't stick either :pac:

Sponge Bob

Con Logue wrote: »

Just as well the name C-Ring didn't stick either :pac:

It didn't and I feel much better now. :pac:

Can you perhaps segué us in policy terms from the DTS to the DRRTS and how one led to/seemingly replaced another and in such a short space of time...5 years or so not counting publication to commissioning gap of probably 3 years more like.

I am aware of the Oil Shock in late 1973 but surely the DRRTS was commissioned before them and informed by the Oil Sock during its preparatory phases.

Con Logue

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It didn't and I feel much better now. :pac:

Can you perhaps segué us in policy terms from the DTS to the DRRTS and how one led to/seemingly replaced another and in such a short space of time...5 years or so not counting publication to commissioning gap of probably 3 years more like.

I am aware of the Oil Shock in late 1973 but surely the DRRTS was commissioned before them and informed by the Oil Sock during its preparatory phases.

Yes, I would be fascinated to learn about the transition in more detail as well. From memory, I think the DRRTS was commissioned on foot of the DTS as it made some positive mention of the Suburban Rail line, which was gradually coming back in terms of usage from its nadir in the early 1960s.

We also had Frank McDonalds' The Destruction of Dublin as the testimony to the car based, four houses to the acre policies that were in train until the 1990s.

I'll have a chance next week to do a bit of digging, in the meantime Martin Niemoller, Angelo Roncalli and Jewish Communities in Germany after the war need attention as my essay deadline is coming thick and fast..

Terrontress

Con Logue wrote: »

in the meantime Martin Niemoller, Angelo Roncalli and Jewish Communities in Germany after the war need attention as my essay deadline is coming thick and fast..

They came for the canals and, as I was not a canal, I said nothing

strassenwo!f

Con Logue wrote: »

I used to post once upon a time as Ronald Binge here...

And why do you not still post as Ronald Binge?

Cookie_Monster

strassenwo!f wrote: »

And why do you not still post as Ronald Binge?

what's that got to do with anything
maybe he lost his account access when boards was hacked?

end of the road

Con Logue wrote: »

one on the Harcourt Street line to Dundrum. It was alleged that this was chosen to avoid treading on the toes of the still living Tod Andrews.

feck him, they should have rebuilt the railway, rubbed his nose in it, and told him he was wrong to close it in the first place, a missed opportunity