[Laptop] Right to refund after two attempts by shop to fix?

LOI Stats

I bought a brand new laptop, in a small computer shop. Lots of random restarts and BSOD out of the box.

Have returned it to the shop twice for repair. It has not been resolved. I am returning it to the shop for a 3rd time this afternoon. The guy will likely insist on sending it back to the manufacturer, as he indicated he would if I had further problems.

It just isn't an option to be left without a computer for weeks. I doubt the shop has a new replacement on hand. It has already cost me money in lost work and time.

There was no deception on the part of the shop, but the laptop is an absolute pile of crap. It never occurred to me that the processor speed quoted would be a single core. I needed a replacement quickly for an old machine that wasn't worth sinking money into and I made the mistake of buying the aforementioned laptop.

TL:DR The shop has tried to fix the laptop twice. Am I automatically entitled to a refund?

I doubt the above it true, but I don't really know where I stand either way. Ideally I want to get the money back and spend another €100-€150 on something I'll be happy with.

Thanks in advance.

Shield

If it's not fit for purpose, then you can request a refund via the way you paid. For example, they won't give you back cash if you paid on a debit or credit card. You will obviously need your proof of purchase.

Being broken would be classed as "not fit for purpose", so if they refuse to refund you, then it's an open and closed case in Small Claims.

I don't know why they're being so problematic. They'll just send it back to their supplier and he will refund them. Happens all the time.

Shield

Forgot to say..

The only way they can get out of giving you a direct cash/card refund is if the item was marked as being on sale. In that case, you would ordinarily be given a credit note or vouchers to the value of the goods purchased.

LOI Stats

Thank you for the replies.

I paid in cash. I have the invoice.

He hasn't refused a refund, but I can see it coming a mile off. Small shop, sfa sales.

I'll report back with what happens anyway. No way am I getting stuck with something that has out of the box hardware issues.

LOI Stats

Forgot to ask, they aren't entitled to insist upon replacing it at this stage?

I don't want one and having to wait for it not an option.

Thanks.

dudara

Shield wrote: »

Forgot to say..

The only way they can get out of giving you a direct cash/card refund is if the item was marked as being on sale. In that case, you would ordinarily be given a credit note or vouchers to the value of the goods purchased.

It doesn't matter if an item was on sale and later turns out to be defective. Your rights cannot be impacted because it happened to be on sale. You do not have to accept store credit when goods are defective.

OP - you are entitled to reject further repair, as the first efforts have not been permanent. This leaves you with the option of replacement or refund.

Nody

dudara wrote: »

It doesn't matter if an item was on sale and later turns out to be defective. Your rights cannot be impacted because it happened to be on sale. You do not have to accept store credit when goods are defective.

OP - you are entitled to reject further repair, as the first efforts have not been permanent. This leaves you with the option of replacement or refund.

And if the store refuses you'll have a long walk down the route of small claims court process to get the money back.

spyderski

OP - seems you have 2 problems here, 1. A faulty laptop
2. A laptop which you bought, but have later found out not to be the spec you want.

If the machine is faulty and can't be repaired, you are certainly entitled to a replacement. However from your posts, it seems that even if you are offered a replacement, you still won't be happy as it's not the spec you want.

I used to be in the business and its amazing how many "faulty" computers result once people get home and buyers remorse sets in..

Skid X

Shield wrote: »

Forgot to say..

The only way they can get out of giving you a direct cash/card refund is if the item was marked as being on sale. In that case, you would ordinarily be given a credit note or vouchers to the value of the goods purchased.

That is incorrect.

Your statutory rights are not reduced in any way when buying a product which is 'on sale'.

And credit notes or vouchers are not recognised as an appropriate remedy in any circumstances under Irish Consumer Law.

LOI Stats

spyderski wrote: »

I used to be in the business and its amazing how many "faulty" computers result once people get home and buyers remorse sets in..

I stated that there was a problem. I have posted (relatively) anonymously on this forum. I'm not trying to convince you guys. That obviously isn't going to get me a refund.

The laptop is genuinely defective.

It isn't a case of me giving it back to them and describing vague faults.

Within a few minutes of it completing the boot process when I first booted it up at home, it just powered down and restarted, no BSOD. Since then it has been almost completely BSOD, with a few instances of the former.

He attempted to fix it twice, spending a decent amount of time at it. I know because I waited and watched the first time, to see what the prognosis was.

He gave me a shout early the next morning to say it was fixed. I didn't have time to test it there and then, but when I booted it up at home, it BSOD after being left idle for a few minutes after booting.

Sometimes the boot doesn't even complete without BSOD. Other times it can take a while. Once it lasted a couple of hours, but was then followed by consecutive BSODs within 10-20 seconds of boot starting, every time, until I powered it off myself.

I brought it back again. He scratched his head and said he would do a factory reset. I just left and came back the next day when he called me to collect it. Said it was fixed. Again, didn't have time to test there and then.

BSOD within a minute of two of boot being completed. I booted it a couple of other times, just to see if it would be more frequent or what. BSOD during boot. I turned it off then.

I'm bringing it back to the shop today, with the intention of getting a refund.

LOI Stats

dudara wrote: »

It doesn't matter if an item was on sale and later turns out to be defective. Your rights cannot be impacted because it happened to be on sale. You do not have to accept store credit when goods are defective.

I had a fair idea that was true all right, but left the point alone as I was typing on mobile.

dudara wrote: »

OP - you are entitled to reject further repair, as the first efforts have not been permanent. This leaves you with the option of replacement or refund.

This is what I was hoping for, as I think giving them two attempts to fix what is a new product is reasonable.

Is it certain that the choice lies with me regarding whether it is a refund or replacement?

Thank you all for your responses.

dudara

LOI Stats wrote: »

Is it certain that the choice lies with me regarding whether it is a refund or replacement?

It is up to to the retailer and you to come to agreement. If you cannot reasonably come to agreement, then you can go to the Small Claims Court.

LOI Stats

Ok, thanks for your help.

spyderski

LOI Stats wrote: »

It never occurred to me that the processor speed quoted would be a single core. I needed a replacement quickly for an old machine that wasn't worth sinking money into and I made the mistake of buying the aforementioned laptop.

Is this by any chance colouring your opinion of whether you want a refund or replacement? I have no doubt there is a problem with the laptop, but a replacement is a perfectly good remedy under the law.

Instead of coming on here with 2 agendas, why not go to the retailer and explain the situation, that the laptop is faulty, and that you weren't that happy with it anyway. Tell him you're prepared to pay an extra €150 or whatever for a higher spec'd machine. He will probably be happy to sell you the more expensive machine, and send your one back to his supplier who will replace it with a new one. Hey presto everyone's a winner, and no rows!

spyderski

LOI Stats wrote: »

What can you expect to get from a laptop these days for €500. I'm completely out of the loop.

Buying in a few days when I get a refund on an atrocious laptop that didn't work properly anyway.

Bewildered by the different standards...

Sorry, looks like you have your mind made up already.

LOI Stats

spyderski wrote: »

Is this by any chance colouring your opinion of whether you want a refund or replacement? I have no doubt there is a problem with the laptop, but a replacement is a perfectly good remedy under the law.

Instead of coming on here with 2 agendas, why not go to the retailer and explain the situation, that the laptop is faulty, and that you weren't that happy with it anyway. Tell him you're prepared to pay an extra €150 or whatever for a higher spec'd machine. He will probably be happy to sell you the more expensive machine, and send your one back to his supplier who will replace it with a new one. Hey presto everyone's a winner, and no rows!

He has no other models to offer. It is a small shop. The other ones he has are reconditioned relics. The only new laptops they sold was the one in question. Apart from that, he has a few desktops thrown together.

If he has a replacement in stock, well and good, I can't reasonably complain. If he has to order one in, I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a refund in its place, considering I have effectively been without a laptop since 20th March, the date on the invoice.

He can't be blamed for the days in between where I couldn't make it back to the shop with the laptop, but having had a couple of runs at fixing it, I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

LOI Stats

spyderski wrote: »

Sorry, looks like you have your mind made up already.

I'm hoping to get a refund. If I don't get one, but he is reasonable, fair enough. I came here to see where I stood exactly as regards the law.

You made your mind up about it before you even my post I'd say.

foggy_lad

LOI Stats wrote: »

I stated that there was a problem. I have posted (relatively) anonymously on this forum. I'm not trying to convince you guys. That obviously isn't going to get me a refund.

The laptop is genuinely defective.

It isn't a case of me giving it back to them and describing vague faults.

Within a few minutes of it completing the boot process when I first booted it up at home, it just powered down and restarted, no BSOD. Since then it has been almost completely BSOD, with a few instances of the former.

He attempted to fix it twice, spending a decent amount of time at it. I know because I waited and watched the first time, to see what the prognosis was.

He gave me a shout early the next morning to say it was fixed. I didn't have time to test it there and then, but when I booted it up at home, it BSOD after being left idle for a few minutes after booting.

Sometimes the boot doesn't even complete without BSOD. Other times it can take a while. Once it lasted a couple of hours, but was then followed by consecutive BSODs within 10-20 seconds of boot starting, every time, until I powered it off myself.

I brought it back again. He scratched his head and said he would do a factory reset. I just left and came back the next day when he called me to collect it. Said it was fixed. Again, didn't have time to test there and then.

BSOD within a minute of two of boot being completed. I booted it a couple of other times, just to see if it would be more frequent or what. BSOD during boot. I turned it off then.

I'm bringing it back to the shop today, with the intention of getting a refund.

2 Questions first,

1, Is this a brand new laptop or is this shop just a back street pc repair shop that sells pre-owned laptops as new?

2, Did the shop person take apart the laptop in front of you to attempt a repair or did they just try to turn it on and then do a factory restore?

As this person has had two attempts to repair the laptop they sold I would not accept any further attempts at repair and would look for an immediate replacement or refund.

When you collect the laptop make sure it is turned off fully and not just in standby or hibernation, then take out the battery and replace it before trying to restart the machine.

You will have to test the machine there and then and if it fails again tell the retailer you want a replacement or refund as you do not have to accept countless repairs (from someone who may not be qualified to carry out warranty repairs on the laptop).

You should prepare a letter to the shop management/owner outlining what has happened so far(2 failed repairs) and what you expect from them(replacement or refund) if they have not fixed the laptop, Give them a time frame of 3-5 days to resolve the issue or you will be taking a case to the small claims court. Bring this letter with you to the shop. if the laptop is not fixed properly hand the letter to the retailer.

LOI Stats

Still no sign of a replacement and refusing to refund price of unit.

Off to small claims I think.

LOI Stats

Shop made contact with me this morning and picked up the replacement unit today. Admittedly very happy with the outcome, as it is considerably better than the original unit. Still extremely annoyed it took this long.

Low end also, but dual core rather than single core, which was excruciating to use, when it worked, briefly. Still, not worth more than price I paid originally.

Thanks for comments/suggestions.