poor service by recovery co. (rant)

readytosnap

sunday afternoon the young ones car broke down, she thought the clutch was gone, anyway rang the insurance co and they organised a recovery vehicle to come out, she was only waiting 40 mins which is not bad, anyway the guy turns up and looks under the bonnet she explained what happened and he said a pin had come out of a unit in the engine and this caused the clutch not to work, he put the pin back in and said there you go it is fixed and you should be grand, needless to say she was delighted, anyway heading out today she travelled approx 2 miles and the same thing happened (less than 24hrs), so she had to call insurance again and another guy comes out has a look says yer man (the guy from the day before) should of known better and should of brought the car to a competent repairer and not let her drive it. Do these people come from the same company? she doesn't know she was just too stressed about the matter to ask. you would think that the insureer would use reputable and competent people to represent them, anyway she got it towed to ford garage they told her the master cylinder is gone and needs replacing 50 for the part and 180 for labour ( 2 hrs they reckon) would anybody on here know what the problem was? i know it is a very vague description but its the best i could get from her. it just sounds like a lot of dosh for labour, i hate to think she would be getting ripped off. i am angry about the 1st fella saying it was ok to drive and the 2nd says no it isn't, i know nothing about cars so i can't help.
Anyway car is a 2005 fiesta 1.25, 115k.
rant over, thanks.

RustyNut

Her Insurance co. got someone to her in 40 mins who made a temporary repair that got her home, job done. That's what breakdown cover is about,not making perminant repairs at the roadside.

ironclaw

Eh, she's in the blame in my book. She took the word of a recovery truck (Who most likely wasn't a fully fledged mechanic) that a car was 'A OK' by a visual, road side inspection. Its common sense, at least to me, if such a thing happens to drive the car home (If repaired at the roadside) and then have it fully inspected by a mechanic. Or just go the whole hog and have the car towed back to home / garage to be looked at. I certainly wouldn't go on the word of anyone other than a fully qualified mechanic.

Most insurers operate by asking local mechanics / recovery trucks to cover a zone for a call out fee. They get paid for the call outs they do and most are pretty good, some are excellent. You also get the bad bunch, just out to make a quick buck (Its good money if your busy) Some are just there to get you home. They don't really represent an insurance company, they just provide a service for them i.e. A guy in head office has said 'OK' to Jim O'Brien's Recovery application having probably never met him or seen his truck.

readytosnap

Thanks for your responses.

RustyNut wrote: »

Her Insurance co. got someone to her in 40 mins who made a temporary repair that got her home, job done. That's what breakdown cover is about,not making perminant repairs at the roadside.

i already said that the 40 mins was good, but yer man told her it was repaired,how is she to know if he is a qualified mechanic? and if he isnt a qualified mechanic then in my book he shouldn't be attempting any repairs.

ironclaw wrote: »

Eh, she's in the blame in my book. She took the word of a recovery truck (Who most likely wasn't a fully fledged mechanic) that a car was 'A OK' by a visual, road side inspection. Its common sense, at least to me, if such a thing happens to drive the car home (If repaired at the roadside) and then have it fully inspected by a mechanic. Or just go the whole hog and have the car towed back to home / garage to be looked at. I certainly wouldn't go on the word of anyone other than a fully qualified mechanic.

Most insurers operate by asking local mechanics / recovery trucks to cover a zone for a call out fee. They get paid for the call outs they do and most are pretty good, some are excellent. You also get the bad bunch, just out to make a quick buck (Its good money if your busy) Some are just there to get you home. They don't really represent an insurance company, they just provide a service for them i.e. A guy in head office has said 'OK' to Jim O'Brien's Recovery application having probably never met him or seen his truck.

it was not just a visual, he did a repair, he told her he fixed it and it was ok to drive. i agree with you on the head office guy, that is part of what i am saying they (insurer) should be more responsible in whom they call imo, but like you said,prob never met or checked credability.
I was hoping someone would come on and say yeah it sounds like the slave/master cylnder or something along those lines, not ciriticise my daughter. anyway, does the cost of the repair sound excessive? could anyone recommend a competent repairer that wont charge €90 an hour to fix it?

jimmyw

I dont know why he didnt just put it up on the truck anyway, after all he is being paid to go out, so its no skin off his nose.I blame him.I wonder if she crashed the car and got injured or worse, would he have being held responsible?

martinr5232

readytosnap wrote: »

sunday afternoon the young ones car broke down, she thought the clutch was gone, anyway rang the insurance co and they organised a recovery vehicle to come out, she was only waiting 40 mins which is not bad, anyway the guy turns up and looks under the bonnet she explained what happened and he said a pin had come out of a unit in the engine and this caused the clutch not to work, he put the pin back in and said there you go it is fixed and you should be grand, needless to say she was delighted, anyway heading out today she travelled approx 2 miles and the same thing happened (less than 24hrs), so she had to call insurance again and another guy comes out has a look says yer man (the guy from the day before) should of known better and should of brought the car to a competent repairer and not let her drive it. Do these people come from the same company? she doesn't know she was just too stressed about the matter to ask. you would think that the insureer would use reputable and competent people to represent them, anyway she got it towed to ford garage they told her the master cylinder is gone and needs replacing 50 for the part and 180 for labour ( 2 hrs they reckon) would anybody on here know what the problem was? i know it is a very vague description but its the best i could get from her. it just sounds like a lot of dosh for labour, i hate to think she would be getting ripped off. i am angry about the 1st fella saying it was ok to drive and the 2nd says no it isn't, i know nothing about cars so i can't help.
Anyway car is a 2005 fiesta 1.25, 115k.
rant over, thanks.

The problem here is the little clip came off the clutch pedel which allowed the connecting rod to the master cylinder come away its a common problem on fiestas.

I would imagine the first recovery fella put the clip back on and thought it would be grand its an easy mistake to make if your not familiar with fords.

I dont know why you need a new master cylinder unless it got broken the second time it came off we usualy drill a small hole in the clutch pedal and put a split pin through it half an hours labour max.

Del2005

jimmyw wrote: »

I dont know why he didnt just put it up on the truck anyway, after all he is being paid to go out, so it's no skin off his nose.I blame him.I wonder if she crashed the car and got injured or worse, would he have being held responsible?

If the clutch goes you won't crash. All that would happen is she couldn't change gears and once stopped wouldn't be able to start off again. There may be a slight issue when trying to stop but you could just knock it out of gear.

I don't think either recovery driver did anything wrong. The first lad got her home, not sure of her policy, but most will just bring you to the nearest garage which is usually the drivers. They aren't paid to diagnose cars on the roadside. Where you then either need to arrange to get it to your own mechanic or they'll work on it. He fixed it, which worked temporarily.

If you want proper repair at the roadside you have to splash out on AA or RAC.

readytosnap

martinr5232 wrote: »

The problem here is the little clip came off the clutch pedel which allowed the connecting rod to the master cylinder come away its a common problem on fiestas.

I would imagine the first recovery fella put the clip back on and thought it would be grand its an easy mistake to make if your not familiar with fords.

I dont know why you need a new master cylinder unless it got broken the second time it came off we usualy drill a small hole in the clutch pedal and put a split pin through it half an hours labour max.

Thanks for that info, our problem of course now is how can we prove either way what is wrong with the car, if the cylinder was broke would it be visible to look at? (i dont even know what a cylinder is or looks like), i am very suspicious of this ford garage saying it is such a big thing, what info could i ask them?,could i get pictures of the damage? sorry for all the questions. they said they are going to get the part from another dealer tomorrow (tues) and do the repair.
how could you tell if the cylinder was broke as opposed to just the clip requiring replacement etc? I am so frustrated because i am over 100 miles away from her, the car is in Dublin now.

RustyNut

An independent mechanic would probably work out a lot cheaper than a main stealer and a second opinion might put your mind at rest with regard what exactly is wrong.

readytosnap

@ martinr5232
I just spoke to her there and she said the exact same noise happened like a snapping noise both times the guy did stick the pin back in behind the pedal, she said when it happened again she felt around to see what was there and she found a "spear like" shape pin that looked like the top had snapped of it, this corresponds with what you have said, would this issue cause the cylinder to break? i am getting a bad feeling that they are ripping her off, when they could actually do what you suggested.

readytosnap

RustyNut wrote: »

An independent mechanic would probably work out a lot cheaper than a main stealer and a second opinion might put your mind at rest with regard what exactly is wrong.

yes a 2nd opinion deffo would but we dont really know anyone there, she is a student in Dublin.

David09

A main dealer will automatically replace whatever part is broken, rather than attempt a repair. It's not like they're ripping you off, it's more likely their policy is to totally replace broken parts rather than spending time repairing or modifying them.

Bigus

readytosnap

ok does anyone know anyone competent that could possibly look at and repair this car?, like was stated above it could probably be fixed easily (30 mins & drilling a hole) rather than replacing a part (david09).
im sure she doe not have to spend 230 euro on this after what i have heard on here. the car is near the city centre on the northside. Thanks everyone for responding.

Bigus

Bigus

The part that slipped off is the white rod in the first photo ignore red circle

The spring clip is available from ford dealer for 1 euro

Spring clip is fix by ford as these clips didn't come when car was new second photo

When fitting clip turn white rod 180'deg to compensate for wear.

Three minute fix. Your daughter will be well able to fit and work out whats what

readytosnap

Thanks Bigus, she said that looks like the part except it was black, but we think the plastic piece has broken at the top can that part be easily replaced?

jimmyw

martinr5232 wrote: »

The problem here is the little clip came off the clutch pedel which allowed the connecting rod to the master cylinder come away its a common problem on fiestas.

I would imagine the first recovery fella put the clip back on and thought it would be grand its an easy mistake to make if your not familiar with fords.

I dont know why you need a new master cylinder unless it got broken the second time it came off we usualy drill a small hole in the clutch pedal and put a split pin through it half an hours labour max.

Oh, is that what it is? The father has one of these cars and this very fault happened not once, but twice.Both times the master cylinder had to be changed because the actual plastic rod broke.A bit of a pig to change the cylinder, although remove/replace the pipes is very easy due to the clip type setup.A very easy part to get and a reasonable price too.In my opinion, its a bad design.Having a plastic item on a component thats used rather a lot.The problem aries is that the pedal pivot loosens and then the rod does not push the master straight, and fractures the rod.The thing to do is if the pedal has much sideways movement, get someone to get under there and tighten.That should help.

Del2005 wrote: »

If the clutch goes you won't crash. All that would happen is she couldn't change gears and once stopped wouldn't be able to start off again. There may be a slight issue when trying to stop but you could just knock it out of gear.

I don't think either recovery driver did anything wrong. The first lad got her home, not sure of her policy, but most will just bring you to the nearest garage which is usually the drivers. They aren't paid to diagnose cars on the roadside. Where you then either need to arrange to get it to your own mechanic or they'll work on it. He fixed it, which worked temporarily.

If you want proper repair at the roadside you have to splash out on AA or RAC.

Yeah I know.I was only speaking generally.If the recovery driver was aware of the issue (maybe he didnt) he should have known it would have failed, and put it up on the truck. So I still would blame him.

martinr5232

readytosnap wrote: »

Thanks Bigus, she said that looks like the part except it was black, but we think the plastic piece has broken at the top can that part be easily replaced?

The black part in the picture above is the master cylinder and the white rod is part of it what happens is the rod moves on the pin and slips off which probably happenend first time.

Second time the rod probably snapped thats why they have to replace the master cylinder.

Bigus

readytosnap wrote: »

Thanks Bigus, she said that looks like the part except it was black, but we think the plastic piece has broken at the top can that part be easily replaced?

Yes the rod should be available separately it's just push in, unusual for them to break , get her to remove it from t,he car and post a pic.

Bigus

Ok hears a black one with a bad fix which doesn't work

readytosnap

unfortunately she left the part in the car so no pic, well not till tomorrow anyway,
we don't mind ford fixing it but also don't want to be replacing parts when a fix is available for a lot less.

I am frustrated that i cannot have a look myself :mad::mad:

Bigus

readytosnap wrote: »

unfortunately she left the part in the car so no pic, well not till tomorrow anyway,
we don't mind ford fixing it but also don't want to be replacing parts when a fix is available for a lot less.

I am frustrated that i cannot have a look myself :mad::mad:

A torch and a good camera phone tomorrow could be worth over 200 euro to her, and she'll get a bit of experience at two ways of sorting a problem.

Good luck , I'll keep an eye here in the morning.

martinr5232

readytosnap wrote: »

unfortunately she left the part in the car so no pic, well not till tomorrow anyway,
we don't mind ford fixing it but also don't want to be replacing parts when a fix is available for a lot less.

I am frustrated that i cannot have a look myself :mad::mad:

If the rod is broken its too late for a simple fix the time for that was the first time it came off unfortunatly the recovery drivers were not familiar with this problem on the fiesta.

readytosnap

Thanks for the help and advice, i told her to ring ford and tell them to do nothing with the car, she is in college at 9am so maybe she might be able to get down there at lunch time, if the cylinder was broke could you tell just by looking at it?, thanks again.

jimmyw

readytosnap wrote: »

unfortunately she left the part in the car so no pic, well not till tomorrow anyway,
we don't mind ford fixing it but also don't want to be replacing parts when a fix is available for a lot less.

I am frustrated that i cannot have a look myself :mad::mad:

If the plastic rod is broke, then the whole master cylinder will have to be changed, if its only the clip on the pedal that holds on the rod, that can be done easy (I have used two cable ties once).Maybe its the metal rod on the pedal that the plastic rod pushes onto is broke.I dont know if that can be changed separately from the pedal? Maybe thats what other posters are talking about.

readytosnap

martinr5232 wrote: »

If the rod is broken its too late for a simple fix the time for that was the first time it came off unfortunatly the recovery drivers were not familiar with this problem on the fiesta.

i'm confused now, Bigus said it could still be replaced, of course it would help if we had a pic of the actual part
i'll chat her again in the morning.

readytosnap

ok so here is what i have established, the plastic rod that is shaped like an exclamation mark is what has snapped at the bottom where the "ball part shape" is. going by this info would it be possible to buy this part and remove the broken bit from the unit it fits into and replace the lot? or is it f**ked and the whole cylinder needs replacing. thanks again everyone.

martinr5232

readytosnap wrote: »

ok so here is what i have established, the plastic rod that is shaped like an exclamation mark is what has snapped at the bottom where the "ball part shape" is. going by this info would it be possible to buy this part and remove the broken bit from the unit it fits into and replace the lot? or is it f**ked and the whole cylinder needs replacing. thanks again everyone.

It all comes complete im afraid.

Bigus

martinr5232 wrote: »

It all comes complete im afraid.

Probably correct Martin , need whole part now,

Bigus

Broken exclamation pin ! Good description

readytosnap

haha sorry it was the best description i could come up with

anyway from what i can gather the last pic you put up is exactly what she has left, so its a whole cylinder then that has to be replaced?
if only that first recovery guy had the knowledge you lot have!!:mad:

jimmyw

Bigus wrote: »

Broken exclamation pin ! Good description

You swine,Bigus.Thats my pic you stole and I want to be paid for the use of it so pay up, or I will take legal action..........................................................................................................................:D

Seriously though, that one broke the second time around so had no choice but to change it.The first time it happened it did not break, but it came off the clutch pedal so no clutch action,but I saw fluid leaking out from where that rod comes out from the cylinder.I changed it the first time, and the brother changed it the second time.Its only about 50 quid (if doing it youself) OP, and easily got because its a known fault. Below is the leaking one I changed.

By the way OP,is there much sideways movement in the pedal?

readytosnap

ok it has been repaired, i dont know if there is much sideways movement in the clutch pedal, i will ask her next time i am talking to her, the quote was for 230 in total 50 odd for the part the rest for labour, she managed to get it done for 200. not that, that is very cheap. they also gave her a list of stuff that needs doing :rolleyes::o

Alternator belt cracked €47
brake fluid change €50
Exhaust rear box bracket breaking requires new rear box €65
n/s/f shock absorber defective, torque restrictor required €140
o/s/r shock absorber leaking €65

Can i ask those in the know what priority these should be done in? there is no way she can get them all done at once.
tbh a cracked alternator belt doesnt sound too healthy to me but like i said before i know nothing about cars.
she said as she was leaving the garage she noticed an orange light was on ( im guessing it is the engine light) she is going back into them (ford dealers) about it in the morning, it never rains it pours !!

Also can I say Thank you to everyone that offered advice on my original question , a bit of knowledge goes a long way.

jimmyw

Oh dear, I would go for the shocks first, (dont know what a torque restrictor is).Then the exhaust, (could they not just weld a bracket ?) then the brake fluid,(unless its really manky) then the belt.If the belt is driving the power steering as well for instance, and it broke, then the steering will be heavy.If its only the alternator, then the most that can happen is that the battery will go flat.Garage should be able to check the light, but not urgent.

readytosnap

ok thanks for that info, doubt it will be getting done through a ford dealer this time. just have to find a good honest indo.

randy hickey

readytosnap wrote: »

ok thanks for that info, doubt it will be getting done through a ford dealer this time. just have to find a good honest indo.

OP, if your daughter is a student on the Northside of Dublin, then you need to send her to our own esteemed Nissan Doctor who works in Drumcondra.

Drop him a PM and he'll sort her out.

readytosnap

I sent him a pm about the original clutch issue but he never got back to me, probably too busy or his pm's could be full, either ways i will try again, thanks.

randy hickey

Ring Atlas in Drumcondra where he works.

readytosnap

does he have a name? I'm not ringing and asking for Nissan Doctor

randy hickey

readytosnap wrote: »

does he have a name? I'm not ringing and asking for Nissan Doctor

I don't think it would be fair to give out his name here - it's against the rules anyway.

He's never away from here for too long, so hang in there!

randy hickey

Tell you what- have a read of this;;);)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72245455

Bigus

readytosnap wrote: »

ok it has been repaired, i dont know if there is much sideways movement in the clutch pedal, i will ask her next time i am talking to her, the quote was for 230 in total 50 odd for the part the rest for labour, she managed to get it done for 200. not that, that is very cheap. they also gave her a list of stuff that needs doing :rolleyes::o

Alternator belt cracked €47
brake fluid change €50
Exhaust rear box bracket breaking requires new rear box €65
n/s/f shock absorber defective, torque restrictor required €140
o/s/r shock absorber leaking €65

Can i ask those in the know what priority these should be done in? there is no way she can get them all done at once.
tbh a cracked alternator belt doesnt sound too healthy to me but like i said before i know nothing about cars.
she said as she was leaving the garage she noticed an orange light was on ( im guessing it is the engine light) she is going back into them (ford dealers) about it in the morning, it never rains it pours !!

Also can I say Thank you to everyone that offered advice on my original question , a bit of knowledge goes a long way.

If the car has a current NCT I'd leave well enough alone.

Brake fluid change is very important if you live in the alps and brakes can overheat /boil water absorbed due to the hygroscopic nature of brake fluid , or if your doin rallying or circuit racing

readytosnap

yes it has a current NCT till 6/14 i reckon,
well i bought the car new around may/june 2005, so i think it would be 5 yrs old before first nct was due 2010, that was 2yrs, and i'm sure she put it through last year so thats for 2yrs as well i think. so 2014 then it should be another 2yrs? or does it drop to 1 yr?. either ways its deffo got one. so safety wise it would be ok? that would be my main concern.

Bigus

First NCT due may 09
second due
may 11
third nct may 13 so it needs test now , submit it for test now and report back don't do any work except make sure dip beam on both sides is working before test to avoid a retest fee of 28 euro , most other things inc tyres are afree visual if fail.


However

Methinks perhaps ford dealer was right all along and car needs a few bob spent on it after 7 years of neglect , unless the student can trade it in for a new one and neglect the new one for a further 7 years and call the recovery company in 2021.

WADR ( with all due respect ) if safety is your real concern.

readytosnap

well i dont know where the neglect has come from, the car has been serviced every year since she got it,and she never had an issue with it until recently, i owned it for the first 3 years and had it serviced by ford at the required intervals, and i certainly never abused it, there just seems to be a catalogue of things going wrong now.

Bigus

readytosnap wrote: »

well i dont know where the neglect has come from, the car has been serviced every year since she got it,and she never had an issue with it until recently, i owned it for the first 3 years and had it serviced by ford at the required intervals, and i certainly never abused it, there just seems to be a catalogue of things going wrong now.

Just make sure youcompare a "catalogue of maintenance repairs " to the cost of depreciation "

please don't forget a fresh 05 fiesta one family owned car would be luxury to a lot of Irish people around here in post tiger Ireland now, especially if its paid for .
In fact to a lot of people it twould be " Pure luxury and no sheriff calling to collect outstanding debt."

Bigus

jimmyw wrote: »

You swine,Bigus.Thats my pic you stole and I want to be paid for the use of it so pay up, or I will take legal action..........................................................................................................................:D

Seriously though, that one broke the second time around so had no choice but to change it.The first time it happened it did not break, but it came off the clutch pedal so no clutch action,but I saw fluid leaking out from where that rod comes out from the cylinder.I changed it the first time, and the brother changed it the second time.Its only about 50 quid (if doing it youself) OP, and easily got because its a known fault. Below is the leaking one I changed.

By the way OP,is there much sideways movement in the pedal?

Good man , so why didn't you post your own pic, nice wood grain btw,

readytosnap

Bigus wrote: »

Just make sure youcompare a "catalogue of maintenance repairs " to the cost of depreciation "

please don't forget a fresh 05 fiesta one family owned car would be luxury to a lot of Irish people around here in post tiger Ireland now, especially if its paid for .
In fact to a lot of people it twould be " Pure luxury and no sheriff calling to collect outstanding debt."

thats why she still has the car, cos she knows the history from new, she worked hard to pay for it ( i didn't give her the car) but she paid it off and tbh I think she has done alright by it, cos like i said other than maintanence costs there has only been 2 things go wrong with it since new,I know what yer saying about the sheriff, despite the hefty bill she is still lucky imo.

listermint

If im honest, Your maintenance bill while it might seem expensive, really isnt. Your getting alot of 'lifetime' items done there. Which would generally need to be done in the 80-100K range anyway. Cars need major parts swapped out within 3 owners its just the way of things.

But all costs included its bargain motoring when you stretch these items out over the lift of the car. Id urge to get them repaired if at all possible do them together as the labour will be cheaper. Then you wont have to worry about the car.

The attitude of 'does it have a current nct' is the crappy attitude that prevails the Irish motoring market which is why we have so many poorly maintained sh&t boxes on our roads.

Get the items done, its certainly worth it for happy motoring.