LPG or Diesel for Next Car

keithclancy

So, my current car (2005 Volvo V50 2.0D) is starting to show the kilometers (296,000km) and looking to change up to something better.

I'm a bit shocked at how badly Volvos are built in fairness, mainly issues with the door seals, the front window seals, the layout of the engine bay is a horrible design for servicing (No pump to prime the fuel line for example)

Also the parts seem to cost much more than other marques for some reason, although some can be gotten for the Ford models that match up.

I'm kind of going off Diesel to be honest its dirty and noisy and looking at LPG as an alternative.

So I'm looking for:
Stationwagon (Dog)
Reliable
Doing around 50,000km/year
Comfortable
Something that LPGs well, I know certain engines have problems with it.

Any Particular recommendations on models, I don't really care about the Motor Tax cost as thats only a small part of the yearly cost.

Also this is in the Netherlands

Does it make sense to do this kind of mileage on LPG ?

EDIT:
http://www.autotrader.nl/auto/citroen/heeswijk-dinther/52tvp/citroen-c5-tourer-20-16v-l-business-navigatie/detail/?zoekopdracht=prijs-van-9000-tot-15000%7Cbouwjaar-van-2009%7Cbrandstof-bevat-lpg-g3%7Ccarrosserie--stationwagen

Something along these lines, although i'm not sure about Citroen ?

dgt

Is there an LPG outlet near to you? Or near to where you travel the most?

keithclancy

dgt wrote: »

Is there an LPG outlet near to you? Or near to where you travel the most?

Its the Netherlands ... everywhere has LPG.

http://www.mylpg.eu/stations/netherlands

Its about 1euro / liter cheaper to buy LPG vs Petrol.

dgt

Ah good old contineltal europe

What's the tax like for bigger engined cars or is that a concern?

Some places here have it at €1 others €1.14...

keithclancy

dgt wrote: »

Ah good old contineltal europe

What's the tax like for bigger engined cars or is that a concern?

Some places here have it at €1 others €1.14...

The tax isn't really an issue, I already pay around 1400 / year on the current car.

dgt

New or 2nd hand?

keithclancy

dgt wrote: »

New or 2nd hand?

Second hand, budget is around 10-12k.
Looking around the 2008 onwards area.

CiniO

LPG 0.84 euro
Diesel 1.48 euro

Is that right?

TBH if I were you, for that kind of driving I would go for diesel.

Assume you get average of 6l/100km from diesel, and you can get 9.5l/100km from LPG.

So 100km in diesel costs you 8.88
100km in LPG costs you 7.98

So you are saving 90 cents per 100km.

Per 50,000km per annum, you save 450.

Subtract the costs of actually converting a car, conversion maintenance (it needs gas filter changes, adjustments, etc). You might need to service you car more often when running on LPG (especially spark plug changes).
You will need to visit petrol station more often, as LPG tanks are usually small enough (you can do 300 - 400km per tank). And eventually they also take space in the boot.

Only advantage could be that petrol car with cost of conversion might be cheaper than diesel to buy, but is this the case in Netherland? (I assume it depends on taxation).

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

LPG 0.84 euro
Diesel 1.48 euro

Is that right?

TBH if I were you, for that kind of driving I would go for diesel.

Assume you get average of 6l/100km from diesel, and you can get 9.5l/100km from LPG.

So 100km in diesel costs you 8.88
100km in LPG costs you 7.98

So you are saving 90 cents per 100km.

Per 50,000km per annum, you save 450.

Subtract the costs of actually converting a car, conversion maintenance (it needs gas filter changes, adjustments, etc). You might need to service you car more often when running on LPG (especially spark plug changes).
You will need to visit petrol station more often, as LPG tanks are usually small enough (you can do 300 - 400km per tank). And eventually they also take space in the boot.

Only advantage could be that petrol car with cost of conversion might be cheaper than diesel to buy, but is this the case in Netherland? (I assume it depends on taxation).

LPG is usually around 68-70/L

I usually get diesel for around 1.39 at the moment

http://www.brandstofprijzen.nl/

Its not the fuel saving is the big thing, I just don't like Diesels.

More to go wrong with them, with Diesel Particulate Filters, Dual Mass Flywheels, Turbo, Injection systems that cost a bloody fortune if they go wrong and generally they are just noisy and rattly compared to the petrol counterpart.

The only benefit is the range+fuel consumption, and tbh I don't mind stopping at a station 3 times a week as its good to stop to get a break anyway.

If I could drive a 2.0liter petrol for the same money as a 2.0l diesel I would prefer it.

CiniO

keithclancy wrote: »

LPG is usually around 68-70/L

I usually get diesel for around 1.39 at the moment

http://www.brandstofprijzen.nl/

Its not the fuel saving is the big thing, I just don't like Diesels.

More to go wrong with them, with Diesel Particulate Filters, Dual Mass Flywheels, Turbo, Injection systems that cost a bloody fortune if they go wrong and generally they are just noisy and rattly compared to the petrol counterpart.

The only benefit is the range+fuel consumption, and tbh I don't mind stopping at a station 3 times a week as its good to stop to get a break anyway.

If I could drive a 2.0liter petrol for the same money as a 2.0l diesel I would prefer it.

Fair enough so.
LPG is the way to go then, with mad petrol prices in Netherland.

Few things to notice then.

1. As you said yourself some engines just don't like being converted to LPG. It would be hard though to find a list of modern engines, as most cars being converted are older and there is very little experience with newer engines.
In general japaneese stuff is considered not great for LPG, especially honda VTEC. Mondeo used the same engines as mazda 6 and they were also not great for LPG.
Generally all german stuff (audi, Vw, skoda, seat) seem to conver problemless.

2. Conversion. This is the most cruicial part. Badly done conversion will cause you hell lot of trouble. Good one should last problemless for years. Do good research which garage will do a good one. Also conversion manufacturer is kinda important. Top class would be BRC (itialian make) but I'm not sure if that's available in Netherland. I can advise you a great garage which converts using BRC equipment, but that's in east of Poland so you would have about 1200km trip each way.

Also once you get your car converted it's wise to get an interface for LPG ecu, so you can plug in from time to time, and see if conversion is running in optimal conditions (ideal lambda, etc). Conversion running wrongly is the best way to quickly destroy your engine.