Should I let it go?

Rosy Posy

We live rurally and carpool to and from our kids' school. The other day I had a phone call from the teacher saying that my son had not been picked up. The child of the woman who was supposed to pick him up had not been at school that day. This was the first that I'd heard of it. I was at home with a sick child and luckily another mother was able to take my child home to her house until I could arrange to get him. I tried to call her to see what had happened and to find out if she was going to be able to take my kids to school the following day as was our arrangement. When I couldn't get through on her landline or mobile I sent her a text saying exactly what had happened with a ... meaning for her to let me know what was going on. The next day, after repeatedly trying to call her on both lines I waited until 8.35am (school starts between 8.30 and 8.45, its a 15min drive) and then brought my kids to school (bringing my sick and contagious toddler along for the ride), even though it wasn't my day. In the meantime I spoke to a mutual friend who told me the woman and her partner had had a big fight and she was very upset. Given that this was the case, I resolved not to make a big deal of what had happened.

However, when I saw her later that day she was extremely defensive and said that the woman who had collected our children that morning should have told me that her son wasn't going to school and I should have inferred from this that I had to pick up my own child. She said that her mobile phone was out of credit and her landline phone had been unplugged by her partner. She also said that she didn't call me because she was upset and didn't want to talk about it. She said that she had called to my house to pick up my children late because one of her children had had a tantrum but I had already left. She then berated me for my 'angry' text and for not asking her what was going on with her. At no point did she apologise for what had happened.

I put this to her and she said that she wasn't sorry because it wasn't her fault, it was a misunderstanding and she shouldn't apologise. I was really shocked by this. I was prepared to let it go if she would take responsibility for letting me down. She rang me up later that day basically repeating the excuses. I said that I was sorry that she was having a hard time but I still thought I deserved an apology. She didn't agree.

Now, part of me is thinking that this whole thing is way out of proportion and I feel terrible for causing more trouble when she is having bigger issues of her own at home, but these people are the kind that attract drama. Its been more or less constant for the last seven years that I've known them. IMO they have a habit of deflecting responsibility for any of the sh1t that they find themselves in and I do not want to enable them by playing a part in the fiction that they create of how the world has it in for them. For example, my OH was over there one night and heard the partner on the phone to his boss, drunk, handing in his notice. I know he was regularly stoned on the job. The story that they tell is that he was laid off and treated badly by the employer. I have posted previously about them in this thread and this thread.

So should I let it go or insist on an apology before resuming the friendship?
Thanks for the advice.

Merkin

These "friends" of yours sound totally and utterly vile. If this is now your third thread about their sh1tty behaviour I'd be asking myself why on earth you want to hang around with them in the first place?

I would let the whole school run debacle go but I'd also distance myself from them and take my own kids to school in future.

Rosy Posy

Our eldest kids are best friends and its a small rural community. I have actually distanced myself somewhat in recent times which I believe is why she 'didn't want to talk about it'.

My oh and a mutual friend think I should give her a break since they're having relationship difficulties.

Zillah

If she's the kind of person to let that happen and then not be apologetic about it then you have zero to gain over pursuing her about it, she's not going to learn anything and she's not sorry. I'd say arrange car pooling with others if you can.

Merkin

Rosy Posy wrote: »

Our eldest kids are best friends and its a small rural community. I have actually distanced myself somewhat in recent times which I believe is why she 'didn't want to talk about it'.

There doesn't have to be any big acrimonious fall-outs. You simply distance yourself from them. Have other commitments if they invite you around. Take your own kids to school. Continue to be friendly and civil but just lessen your involvement with them. To not pick your child up from school and then have the gumption to not even apologise should be pretty representative to you of the esteem she holds you and your family in.

Rosy Posy

Merkin wrote: »

To not pick your child up from school and then have the gumption to not even apologise should be pretty representative to you of the esteem she holds you and your family in.

This was my feelings on it. I hate that they are supposed to be in some way above regular decent behaviour because of their drama.

I have been distancing myself from them in not buying into it but I think it would be hard to pull out of the carpool without repercussions. They have had several major fallings out with people in the time that I've known them but have never taken any responsibility for them.

Kalimah

Like others said I would end the carpool arrangement. This woman is not reliable and you can't have your child not knowing if they'll be picked up at the end of the day or not. Not to mind yourself not knowing either!
It was her responsibility to let you know if the child wasn't in school that day(in good time too) and the bull about phone credit and unplugged landlines is just beyond belief. Distance yourself quietly and without fuss. No need for drama. Bring your own kids to schoo lfor the moment. There are only a few weeks left of the term and then it will be summer. During the summer make a new arrangement if you can with another mother. It's hard enough with your own life to have to suffer someone elses's crazy car crash dramas.

Rosy Posy

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I have been distancing myself from them in not buying into it but I think it would be hard to pull out of the carpool without repercussions. They have had several major fallings out with people in the time that I've known them but have never taken any responsibility for them.

I'd go for it. Break the carpool deal and let them go mad about it if they want to. If they ask about it, just calmly explain that you need to know that your kids are getting picked up and brought to school on time. If they accuse you of calling them unreliable, let them know that they are. If she's unwilling to apologise about what happened last time, then that means she doesn't think there'd be anything wrong with doing it again.

They probably will have a big drama about it, but the facts of the matter are that they left your child waiting for a car that wasn't coming, and the next day left you not knowing whether or not your kids were getting to school that day. And they're not even of the opinion that there was anything wrong with it, so what's to say it's not going to keep happening.

thefeatheredcat

I recall your other threads and honestly I can't see what you would benefit in being involved even from a distance with them.

Having your child not show up to school whether caused by you or a failure in arrangements will always reflect badly on the parent of the child. Even if this is the first occasion it has ever happened, it may not be the last and could happen under worse circumstances. For the protection, security and safety of your child, regardless of age, I would recommend that you make alternative car pool arrangements. I wouldn't like the idea myself of some row happens between them when they are supposed to collect the kids and don't and leave a teacher or the school to deal with minding them if they realise a child is left uncollected, or being left unsupervised should it not be at the school that they are to be collected.

While it is understandable that their personal issues / drama may have overshadowed the carrying out arrangements to go neglected, even had she no credit, it is faciliated for call me texts or ringing the phone when no credit, that she should still have been able to inform you and make you aware that the arrangements had changed.

But I would say that someone who in a bid to defend themselves go to the lengths of attacking you or painting themselves in the right when they are in the wrong, generally you are better off without.

Rosy Posy wrote: »

but these people are the kind that attract drama.

If that is the case, and certainly from past threads I recall that same sentiment, I think you really need to re-consider involvement with them. With people who love and thrive on drama the only real weapon you have is not to get suckered into it that it fuels the need for drama and to remove yourself from getting embroiled. People who love and thrive drama also love conflict and enjoy living that way even subconsciously, regardless of the cost. She will expect you to make mountains out of this and by looking for an apology - which in fairness you deserve IMO - is just going to fuel the necessity for drama in her life, especially as it will serve as a distraction from the real issues at home and cause the two of them to be on the same side against you.

Totally side step the whole issue, let it go and make alternative arrangements and just simply inform her of them without making a drama out of it. You would only be stressing yourself out and setting yourself up for getting dragged into their mentality of conflict and drama, wasting energy and distracting yourself from happier things and getting on in life. You're better than that, and the only way to avoid being brought down to their level, is not to fuel it.

kat.mac

I'd echo the advice about distancing yourself from them and removing yourself from the carpool arrangement - and add that you won't know yourself when you don't have to be worrying about whether or not you and your child will be let down again.

I'd wager you're not the only one feeling this way; you might not be alone in branching out from the arrangement.

Neyite

For 2 adults, her and her partner to put their stupid dramas ahead of a child's welfare is a disgrace. They essentially stranded your child without letting you know. Only for the school was on the ball, your child could have been waiting outside getting cold or wet with no way of getting in touch with you, or even picked up by a stranger.

No amount of drama in a fall out with them would deter me from ensuring they never carpool with me again. I would be furious with them. This is your opportunity to properly cut ties with a troublesome couple and very few would judge you for it. They have been enough of a hassle to you.

Lollipops23

OP, they badly let you down as far as your child is concerned and left him in a very vulnerable position. The fact that she's being so defensive about it shows she knows full well she did wrong, but she's such a brat she won't apologise.

Between this and the previous threads I don't see a point at all in staying friends with her. Start moving away-if your little lad wants to stay friends with her son, by all means facilitate it. My mam wasn't friends with any of mates mams when I was a kid, we still managed to have sleepovers/cinema trips etc.

These are immature, uncivilised people- you don't needs people like them around you.

jdsk2006

I car pool wit two other moms, and arrangments like this only work when it works. Distance with a smile and a wave, purpously ignore the pouting

mashedbanana

I too live in the middle of no where, so I know how you feel about the dynamics of it all. Not wanting to fall out with anyone. It's great that your eldest is 'friends with her son, but if the child's dad gets stoned, then who's to say that the mother isn't also? There seems to be lots of issues there in that house, and maybe neighbours and 'moms at the school' only get to hear a fraction of it. I'd forget about the carpooling thing tbh and I'd steer clear of that particular mom. Do your own thing, keep your business to yourself.

For me, if I only got the sniff of a rumour about alcohol/drugs, I avoid them like the plague! It wouldn't matter who they were, or where they lived. Kids,drink,drugs,arguments just don't mix as I'm sure you know. In all the years I'm with my hubby and rearing a family they have never heard an argument between us! Oh we did argue...just when they couldn't hear/see it (even though there was plenty of stress, one is special needs, and 1 has other issues, the other one is grand) How can you know what your kids are listening to when travelling along in her car? You can't know. Bad language etc. Maybe I'm a bit OTT!

But drink/drugs...where there are kids? no thanks...sounds a bit scummie to me.

Sittingpretty

Im not interested in her relationship issues.

Anyone with responsibility for a small child who in the case of not being able to collect them and doesn't personally make alternate plans for their collection would certainly not be entrusted to either bring or collect my child from school ever again. NEVER.

It IS a big deal and you're not overreacting.

username123

OP - this is your third thread disapproving about something to do with these people.

Having read the animal cruelty one I cannot imagine why you would be or why you would let your child be in any kind of contact with people like this.

In a nutshell, there appear to be alcohol/drug issues, animal cruelty, relationship issues, you dont trust them, they are not reliable, a lot of drama, and you suspect theft on the part of one of them in the past.

Now, your child has been left with no life home, with you not knowing and only for the school was on the ball AND someone else kindly took him, who knows where he would have ended up.

I do not mean to be offensive to you personally, but you sound like you need your head examined to have this people in your life at all. What is wrong with you? Is it that you also thrive on drama? Do you fear the repercussions of cutting contact? Im baffled as to why anyone would be entertaining this behaviour. These people are not your friends. They are selfish irresponsible leeches who suit themselves. They care nothing for your childs welfare, just like they care nothing for animal welfare. They are substance abusers and you think you can rely on them for carpooling?

You need to wake up and take some responsibility yourself. It is you who allows these people to be in your life.

Rosy Posy

username123 wrote: »

I do not mean to be offensive to you personally, but you sound like you need your head examined to have this people in your life at all. What is wrong with you? Is it that you also thrive on drama? Do you fear the repercussions of cutting contact? Im baffled as to why anyone would be entertaining this behaviour. These people are not your friends. They are selfish irresponsible leeches who suit themselves. They care nothing for your childs welfare, just like they care nothing for animal welfare. They are substance abusers and you think you can rely on them for carpooling?

You need to wake up and take some responsibility yourself. It is you who allows these people to be in your life.

Thank you for your honest words. This is what I have been struggling with myself and I have to say that one of the main reasons I continue with the relationship is cowardice. It's a small community and neither of us have any family support. When our older kids were babies we supported each other a lot. In the last two years I have become uneasy in the relationship and have put my energy into making new friendships and distancing myself from the drama. I have to say that she is a lovely person who is being dragged down by her partner. She has stopped coming to me with their issues as I have refused to get drawn into it. Generally my advice would be of the form of, if its that bad then leave, otherwise stfu (in the nicest possible way). I think that's why she didn't want to call me that morning, because she knew I wouldn't do the 'poor you' routine. Part of the reason I didn't want to cut contact entirely is because I didn't want to become the villian of their latest drama. It baffles me that she can be so tenacious over the issue of apologising and yet take whatever halfassed excuse her oh gives for his appalling behaviour. I do think that I will end the carpooling arrangement with them, with a minimum of fuss. I have been uneasy about it for some time since her oh has not been working (and had his licence reinstated after his latest drunk driving conviction) and has occasionally driven the children. I have no evidence that he would drive stoned but I don't trust the guy and I have stopped sending my kids over there when I'm not there since he's been at home all day.

The above poster is right, I should have the courage to do right by my children and not put them in the care of someone I don't trust.

She actually rang me up and begrudgingly apologised for my child being left but said she still didn't think that she should have called me as she was too upset and it was an achievement for her to have managed to ring in sick to work and get in touch with the woman who was driving in that day, who she thought would have told me. I accepted her apology but didn't get into the latest instalment of the drama. She did say that she was going to be bringing her own kids to and from school next week as they are upset from whatever has been going on. I think that's my opportunity to make other arrangements with minimal fuss.

username123

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I think that's my opportunity to make other arrangements with minimal fuss.

Exactly. I know that you do not want confrontation or repercussions from cutting this person out of you and your childrens lives but it is totally possible to just remove yourself without making any kind of big deal out of it. Simply become distant, unavailable, busy, etc..

She has no problem phoning you with alternative arrangements so you dont have to feel bad over wanting to make changes yourself. You dont have to have a big dramatic strop (which is probably how she would expect someone to act because that is how she would), just drift off.

I am sorry if I was harsh in my last post but I just wanted you to hear it how it looks to an objective outsider.

Rosy Posy

username123 wrote: »

I am sorry if I was harsh in my last post but I just wanted you to hear it how it looks to an objective outsider.

I agree with what you've said. It has struck me each time I've brought one of these issues to PI how different the responses are to the attitude of our community here. It's like there is a totally different standard for this family compared to the rest of the community, almost like they are our charity case. I think that this woman was taken aback that I didn't give her relationship problems special status. She didn't even register that this wasn't an ideal time for me nor did she ask after my sick child. I have noticed that the circle of people around them has dwindled as more and more people grow tired of the endless dramatics, which in turn puts more pressure on the support people left. I just hope that I can manage to extricate myself without causing another drama.

Thanks for the replies.

Rosy Posy

...So, on the topic of dropping the carpool arrangement without drama, any advice on how exactly to do this? I don't think that radical honesty- 'I don't trust you to put the kids' welfare first, or your oh at all' is going to cut it. I could just make excuses/alternative arrangements one day at a time. There's only one week left of school which she has already said she doesn't want to carpool for, and then a week's break (we are not in Ireland and have different terms). I wasn't fully happy with how the arrangement was working out before this happened, she would often do shopping or pick up older stepkids from the bus after she had picked up my child and he would be very late coming home from school and very tired. I could just use that as an excuse and not get drawn into any further drama or judgement of them or their situation.

Also what should I say, if anything, to the other families who we carpool with? I don't want to be bitching but I also want to make it clear that I don't want my kids to go with them, especially since people do tend to swop shifts if they need to. And the school keeps a list of people that are allowed to pick up your child, should I remove them from this? That seems a bit harsh, to get the school involved, especially since they have already had a bad impression formed by what has already gone on.

Thanks!

Stavro Mueller

I'd just tell her that little Johnny is going to be going to school with someone else from now on. Don't be drawn into apologies/explanations. If she asks why, tell her that it'll suit you better for him to go with X. By the sounds of things you'll not need to do much explaining to the locals about why you're changing your arrangements.

Neyite

Its a tough one if it involves several sets of parents and a roster system rather than just you and her.

So, essentially, she is not going to pick up your child, and you wont pick up hers, but you both are still part of a roster system with other parents? I cant see how that will work to be honest.

Why not talk it over with another parent in the carpool - preferably someone who wont gossip, and see if a solution comes out of that.

Then again, she said that she would make her own arrangements for her child for the next week, so in effect, she is opting out of the carpool roster?

animum

Hi,

I had a similar problem before with a chilminder, she was taking naps during the day, leaving my son infront of the tv or DS all day everyday, somedays he wouldnt get a lunch and other times she was late collecting him from school and like your child, was left at the gates. I am working fulltime, so i didnt get to meet the other moms who could tell me about all this.
The way I played it was, I arranged for my son to go to another boys house after school, on play dates and then I told her that my son wanted to go to his house after school from now on. She got a little defensive, but again I had the support of the other moms at the gate for the few weeks of changing minders etc.

This does genuinley shound terrible, but i didnt fancy my son, hanging around the her children either, it may sound snobbish, but her children dont have boundries etc so I can only imagine what they would 'get up' to in pre teens or even as teenagers.

PS if the husband ripped the phone off the wall, i would hazzard a guess there is some form of abuse going with those domestics, and something a child should never be part of or whitness in any home.

Rosy Posy

Neyite wrote: »

Its a tough one if it involves several sets of parents and a roster system rather than just you and her.

So, essentially, she is not going to pick up your child, and you wont pick up hers, but you both are still part of a roster system with other parents? I cant see how that will work to be honest.

Why not talk it over with another parent in the carpool - preferably someone who wont gossip, and see if a solution comes out of that.

Then again, she said that she would make her own arrangements for her child for the next week, so in effect, she is opting out of the carpool roster?

What she had said was that she was going to bring her own child and pick him up early every day next week, basically opting out of the roster. There is only one morning that she might have been expected to bring my children but it will be easy enough for me to say I need to go into town that day and do it myself. I think that logistically it would be quite easy to work out a new schedule it's more the awkwardness of explaining why I don't want to carpool with them, and her taking offence. My oh and another friend think that I'm overreacting in wanting to end the arrangement but I think that that comes from wanting to avoid what they see as the inevitable drama and falling out that would come from this. I think that I will let things lie for the coming week and the week of holidays and bring it up again when we're due to go back next term when things have hopefully levelled off a bit.

Rosy Posy

animum wrote: »

if the husband ripped the phone off the wall, i would hazzard a guess there is some form of abuse going with those domestics, and something a child should never be part of or whitness in any home.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think one of the hardest things I've found with being a parent is to learn to stick your neck out to do what's right for your children even if it creates an awkward situation.

I have had concerns for the family situation in the past. I have had them show up at our place before because they felt physically threatened and I know he has occasionally used physical punishment on the children. I have tried to have them over and offered them a place to go if she needs to leave but after years of her going back to him time and time again and making excuses for his behaviour I've come to the conclusion that they've created a codependent pathology and that the only thing I can do to help is to try to support the children and to try not to enable their behaviour. I honestly don't think calling social services would do any good as the situation is not so dire that it warrants having the children removed and she would argue black was white to defend him.

username123

Are you stepping out of the entire carpool arrangements or just the weeks/days that this lady is supposed to be driving? I take it you wont take her children then the weeks you are carpooling - or will you?

IF you are stepping out the entire arrangement then its easy, simply say you are not happy with the current arrangement and prefer to opt out of it.

Its trickier if you are simply excluding her from the arrangements - especially if you also do not want to take her children on your designated days.

Your only option there with minimal drama is to be honest about it and say that you are not happy relying on her due to the incident - no big deal and not trying to insult anyone but you are not willing to depend on her for the carpool arrangement anymore - and then dont get drawn into any conversation on it. Its irrelevant what she thinks about it, all she will do is make noise and a row can only happen with 2 people being involved, if you refuse to engage its just her talking to herself.

Personally I would be discouraging contact with the whole family, but its up to you if you wish to continue to associate with them.

Rosy Posy

username123 wrote: »

Are you stepping out of the entire carpool arrangements or just the weeks/days that this lady is supposed to be driving? I take it you wont take her children then the weeks you are carpooling - or will you?

IF you are stepping out the entire arrangement then its easy, simply say you are not happy with the current arrangement and prefer to opt out of it.

Its trickier if you are simply excluding her from the arrangements - especially if you also do not want to take her children on your designated days.

Your only option there with minimal drama is to be honest about it and say that you are not happy relying on her due to the incident - no big deal and not trying to insult anyone but you are not willing to depend on her for the carpool arrangement anymore - and then dont get drawn into any conversation on it. Its irrelevant what she thinks about it, all she will do is make noise and a row can only happen with 2 people being involved, if you refuse to engage its just her talking to herself.

Personally I would be discouraging contact with the whole family, but its up to you if you wish to continue to associate with them.

I don't mind taking her child if she still wants me to, I'm just not happy relying on her. There's no way I would break my arrangement with the other families. I have the feeling that by doing this I'm going to look like the one who's over reacting and causing trouble, especially due to their habit of retelling things with them as the victims. But I hope that the other parents will understand that I'm just not comfortable with the arrangement any more.

username123

Rosy Posy wrote: »

I don't mind taking her child if she still wants me to, I'm just not happy relying on her. There's no way I would break my arrangement with the other families. I have the feeling that by doing this I'm going to look like the one who's over reacting and causing trouble, especially due to their habit of retelling things with them as the victims. But I hope that the other parents will understand that I'm just not comfortable with the arrangement any more.

Personally Id just say that (the bit I bolded). Its not malicious, its just practical. Let her make noise to the other parents, so what? Just dont respond or engage with anyone on it. Silence will prevent the virus from spreading, she will only get so much milage about stating the same rubbish over and over.

Rosy Posy

I had a conversation with one of the other mothers today and she totally understood, in fact she seemed as though she would like to renege on the agreement too. The woman in question didn't send her child to school today so I didn't see her but I think I will be able to bring it up again after the holidays. Thanks for all your good advice!

LegacyUser

OP, get out of this arrangement. You are being damaged by this woman. If she needs help and is refusing it there's not much you can do.

Look after your own kids and at least you'll know they are OK.