Paying motor tax before your income tax

lotas

Morning all...

/Start rant...

Not exactly happy this morning, since i had to pay my motor tax, but such is life... but i had a though... while driving into work this morning, since public transport would take me 2x longer to get into the office, i noticed an ad on the back of a bus about this Tax Saver option. Pay for your bus and rail tickets using your before tax wages, save upto 50% or something... and it made me think... Why cant we do this with motor tax? It would also help the government, since they will now be guaranteed their money each month, or however it gets paid. it saves motorists money and time, and it wont cause me to throw a brick at that Varadkar prat...

/Rant over...

peteb2

Eh they do it because they are trying to entice you OUT of your car and onto public transport! See the big flaw in your rant??!

average_runner

lotas wrote: »

Morning all...

/Start rant...

Not exactly happy this morning, since i had to pay my motor tax, but such is life... but i had a though... while driving into work this morning, since public transport would take me 2x longer to get into the office, i noticed an ad on the back of a bus about this Tax Saver option. Pay for your bus and rail tickets using your before tax wages, save upto 50% or something... and it made me think... Why cant we do this with motor tax? It would also help the government, since they will now be guaranteed their money each month, or however it gets paid. it saves motorists money and time, and it wont cause me to throw a brick at that Varadkar prat...

/Rant over...

Just a quick question.

You said bus will take 2xlonger, but would this not offset the savings in petrol with the commuter tax ticket for you?

Or is bus really not an option for your journey?

_Kaiser_

peteb2 wrote: »

Eh they do it because they are trying to entice you OUT of your car and onto public transport! See the big flaw in your rant??!

I see a bigger flaw..

Public transport (even in Dublin) is abysmal. Outside the city it's often non-existent or impractical for many people who currently depend on their cars.

Have a look on the Commuting & Transport firum and you'll see countless stories of..
- Buses/Trains not showing up or late
- Rude drivers
- Antisocial behavior
- the fiasco that is the LEAP card
- ever increasing prices despite all this poor service

.. just to name a few. This would all need to be addressed first before I'd even think of getting out of my car - even though I could get a bus literally door to door right now.

_Kaiser_

average_runner wrote: »

Just a quick question.

You said bus will take 2xlonger, but would this not offset the savings in petrol with the commuter tax ticket for you?

Or is bus really not an option for your journey?

You're forgetting he's still paying tax/insurance as well unless he sells the car entirely

Plus you have to add on the wasted time standing around for the bus to arrive, stuck in traffic because unlike cars it has to stick to a fixed (often wandering) route, stopping every 2/300 yards to let someone on/off etc

lotas

So, i live in Tallaght and work either in the IFSC or Parnell Square... nearest bus to me is about 5 min away. assuming you aim to get there at the correct time and are only waiting 2 or 3 min, that's 8 min before i even start my trip. then another 40-50 min on the actual bus, with other people... no private space, no nothing. Car is sitting outside the house. its there when I WANT IT, not when Dublin bus decide to be there. I leave the house at 5 min to 7 each morning and have my car parked before half 7. 35min commute... or about 1 hour... and that wherever the bus leaves me! its probably another 10-20min walk to get either from the Quays to IFSC or to Parnell Square... kind of makes a big difference...

yea, the bus cost 3 euro each way, etc, and the fuel my car will use is a little more (it is averaging about 38MPG in and out, and the trip is about 20 miles (using motorway and N4) so its uses about 2l of fuel, give or take... 3 eur on diesel maybe...). i rarely am in the IFSC, and parking is included in the Parnell Square office, so thats not a factor...

They say time is money, and I agree. if i say my time is only worth 40EUR a hour (i have charged more) each day with dublin bus it would cost me an extra 80EUR... thats my tax paid for in less than 10 days and my insurance paid for in another 10... 1 month by car will save me...

lotas

Also, for the next month or so, and for the last 4 years or so, i have needed the car after work to get to college in Kevin St. I could use public transport again, but its quicker to get across to Kevin St from Parnell Square going ninja then it would to figure out the buses... I also get cheap parking with the College... it also means that when college finishes at half 9, its 15 min home... not the 40 on a bus...

Cookie_Monster

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Plus you have to add on the wasted time standing around for the bus to arrive,

but you have all the time saved using bus lanes not sitting in traffic...
works both ways.

average_runner

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

You're forgetting he's still paying tax/insurance as well unless he sells the car entirely

Plus you have to add on the wasted time standing around for the bus to arrive, stuck in traffic because unlike cars it has to stick to a fixed (often wandering) route, stopping every 2/300 yards to let someone on/off etc

Well you wont be standing around if you time it correctly with the live table.

For me the bus is 20 mins quicker to get home than a car.

yes i know he stills pay for tax and insurance, but he would need to the car for weekend activities and some other stuff no doubt, so thats why its not taken into account

average_runner

lotas wrote: »

So, i live in Tallaght and work either in the IFSC or Parnell Square... nearest bus to me is about 5 min away. assuming you aim to get there at the correct time and are only waiting 2 or 3 min, that's 8 min before i even start my trip. then another 40-50 min on the actual bus, with other people... no private space, no nothing. Car is sitting outside the house. its there when I WANT IT, not when Dublin bus decide to be there. I leave the house at 5 min to 7 each morning and have my car parked before half 7. 35min commute... or about 1 hour... and that wherever the bus leaves me! its probably another 10-20min walk to get either from the Quays to IFSC or to Parnell Square... kind of makes a big difference...

yea, the bus cost 3 euro each way, etc, and the fuel my car will use is a little more (it is averaging about 38MPG in and out, and the trip is about 20 miles (using motorway and N4) so its uses about 2l of fuel, give or take... 3 eur on diesel maybe...). i rarely am in the IFSC, and parking is included in the Parnell Square office, so thats not a factor...

They say time is money, and I agree. if i say my time is only worth 40EUR a hour (i have charged more) each day with dublin bus it would cost me an extra 80EUR... thats my tax paid for in less than 10 days and my insurance paid for in another 10... 1 month by car will save me...

I get bus every Tuesday from Tallaght at 6.55 and i am in the IFSC by 7.25
Stops outside the IFSC

Bus will cost alot less with commuter ticket and if your going N4, you could always park car in liffey valley and get a bus in. Will get in quicker than car and a 3 min walk or less to Parnell Sq. Plus you only wait a min or so for bus as you have a massive selection at liffey valley.

listermint

lotas wrote: »

So, i live in Tallaght and work either in the IFSC or Parnell Square... nearest bus to me is about 5 min away. assuming you aim to get there at the correct time and are only waiting 2 or 3 min, that's 8 min before i even start my trip. then another 40-50 min on the actual bus, with other people... no private space, no nothing. Car is sitting outside the house. its there when I WANT IT, not when Dublin bus decide to be there. I leave the house at 5 min to 7 each morning and have my car parked before half 7. 35min commute... or about 1 hour... and that wherever the bus leaves me! its probably another 10-20min walk to get either from the Quays to IFSC or to Parnell Square... kind of makes a big difference...

yea, the bus cost 3 euro each way, etc, and the fuel my car will use is a little more (it is averaging about 38MPG in and out, and the trip is about 20 miles (using motorway and N4) so its uses about 2l of fuel, give or take... 3 eur on diesel maybe...). i rarely am in the IFSC, and parking is included in the Parnell Square office, so thats not a factor...

They say time is money, and I agree. if i say my time is only worth 40EUR a hour (i have charged more) each day with dublin bus it would cost me an extra 80EUR... thats my tax paid for in less than 10 days and my insurance paid for in another 10... 1 month by car will save me...

Get the Luas ?

noodler

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I see a bigger flaw..

Kind of an unrelated rant but as a previous poster said.

The tax incentives with taxsaver aim to promote public transport use.

Peregrinus

Getting back to the tax point . . .

lotas wrote: »

It would also help the government, since they will now be guaranteed their money each month, or however it gets paid.

Since they already get your income tax every month, giving up a part of the income tax take in order to get your motor tax every month, as opposed to at the end of the year, is probably not a good deal from their point of view. They'd be giving up an amount of income tax entirely in order to get an amount of motor tax a little bit sooner than they otherwise would.

But the points made by the other posters are basically correct. The purpose of the pre-tax public transport tickets is to influence people's choices; to give them an incentive to choose public transport when they othewise wouldn't. Since you're already driving a car, they don't need to offer you a tax break to encourage you to choose to drive a car. (Even if that was what they wanted you to choose. Which it isn't.)

lotas

listermint wrote: »

Get the Luas ?

luas is even worse... 40 min from the red cow to IFSC, and im only there 1 or 2x a month... plus you have to get to the mad cow also...

lotas

I still think we should treat all road uses equally... charge buses and taxis more tax, since they use the road the same, if not more, than car users... cycle bikes should be taxed and insured, since giving them a free pass should be illegal, and motor bikes should be charged more too... and while we are on the subject, remove bus lanes! anyone using the road should pay road tax, or did i miss the reason for it?

biko

Car users are a lazy lot, me too. We need less cars locked in traffic, not more.
Buses should be free and bike/motorbike use encouraged by tax incentives.

Majority of motorists in our cities.

Why bikes/bus is better than a car.

hardCopy

lotas wrote: »

I still think we should treat all road uses equally... charge buses and taxis more tax, since they use the road the same, if not more, than car users... cycle bikes should be taxed and insured, since giving them a free pass should be illegal, and motor bikes should be charged more too... and while we are on the subject, remove bus lanes! anyone using the road should pay road tax, or did i miss the reason for it?

We don't have road tax in Ireland.

_Kaiser_

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but you have all the time saved using bus lanes not sitting in traffic...
works both ways.

No because as I said, if I'm in the car and hit traffic, I can usually reroute around it - not an option with a bus and it's fixed A-B via C,D and E routing

average_runner wrote: »

Well you wont be standing around if you time it correctly with the live table.

I'm not just talking about physically standing at the bus stop (often just a pole in the ground and exposed to the elements) which yes, has been helped by the live GPS system they implemented.

I'm talking about having to maybe wait 30 minutes first because that's when it's scheduled, or having to leave maybe an hour earlier than necessary (if driving) to allow for that, or the wandering routes etc

noodler wrote: »

Kind of an unrelated rant but as a previous poster said.

The tax incentives with taxsaver aim to promote public transport use.

Not really unrelated as to promote public transport as a realistic attractive option for current car users I'd dare say most people would want to see a hell of a lot more addressed than just the (ever increasing anyway) price tag

ironclaw

lotas wrote: »

luas is even worse... 40 min from the red cow to IFSC, and im only there 1 or 2x a month... plus you have to get to the mad cow also...

Commuting by car is only cheaper than public transport if there is two or more people in the car. And the example I'm taking is if your taking one bus and paying the Outer Suburban Fare.

In my case, a full fill of petrol is about €65 and about 580km in range. If your commute was 16km each way, a full fill for me is about (580/16) = 36 bus trips or equivalent to a fare of (€65/36) = €1.80. Thus each day costs me €3.60 (A round trip)

At €2.45 a trip on the bus (And that's the LEAP fare) that's €176.40 for the same amount of journeys. A 30 day journey card is about €125 (Or €4 per day)

The difficulty arises when you absorb the cost of taxing, insuring and maintaining a car. At a conservative estimate of say €1000 a year, that's €2.79 every single day of the year whether the car moves or not.

So the total cost of my commute, by car, is €3.60 + €2.79 = €6.39.

I'm not arguing for or against public transport. I commute by car as it would take in excess of 2 hours for me to get to work, and the same amount of time home. While the car journey is less than 35 mins by motorway. I should note the example above is a 16km example I happen to know, not related to my current commute.

I just don't like people being so cut and dry about a car being cheaper. Without a second passenger and combining the saving, its more expensive than public transport which should be cheaper anyway. The only considerations outside of cost are what a person is willing to endure in terms of private space, comfort and travel time. The cost in this example is €6.39 - €4 = €2.39, in favor of a bus, so if you commuted 240 days of the year, €575 of a saving versus using a car.

dissed doc

lotas wrote: »

Morning all...

/Start rant...

Not exactly happy this morning, since i had to pay my motor tax, but such is life... but i had a though... while driving into work this morning, since public transport would take me 2x longer to get into the office, i noticed an ad on the back of a bus about this Tax Saver option. Pay for your bus and rail tickets using your before tax wages, save upto 50% or something... and it made me think... Why cant we do this with motor tax? It would also help the government, since they will now be guaranteed their money each month, or however it gets paid. it saves motorists money and time, and it wont cause me to throw a brick at that Varadkar prat...

/Rant over...

Perhaps like e.g., Netherlands you should be able to claim per km taxfree for your home-workplace commute. It would certainly encourage people to work. As it stands, it is so expensive running a car in Ireland and public transport so appalling that it consumes a lot of after tax income just getting to work. If you actually were benefitting and getting a little ahead by working and being able to claim the 10-20km or whatever daily commute back then all the better.

dgt

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

I see a bigger flaw..

Public transport (even in Dublin) is abysmal. Outside the city it's often non-existent or impractical for many people who currently depend on their cars.

Have a look on the Commuting & Transport firum and you'll see countless stories of..
- Buses/Trains not showing up or late
- Rude drivers
- Antisocial behavior
- the fiasco that is the LEAP card
- ever increasing prices despite all this poor service

.. just to name a few. This would all need to be addressed first before I'd even think of getting out of my car - even though I could get a bus literally door to door right now.

Pretty much spot on. 2 Bus Eireann busses go past my road into Dublin, one's at half 8, the other is at 2pm. Quite useless.

Using public transport alone takes up to 3 hours to get into the city. In the car during rush hour it takes 1hr 30 mins.

The one thing that kept me out of the car for some of my journey was the Dublin bus rambler card. A fantastic idea, unlimited per day 5 days non consecutive travelling on the busses for €15.60. I loved getting on random busses in my spare time and just seeing where I'd end up, it's how I found my 166! :eek: Eventually, they priced it to the extent it's only a small bit dearer to park in the RCSI car park per week. Well done, another person back in the car...

When I first went to college I swore I'd never take the bus again after the 1st year

keithclancy

dissed doc wrote: »

Perhaps like e.g., Netherlands you should be able to claim per km taxfree for your home-workplace commute. It would certainly encourage people to work. As it stands, it is so expensive running a car in Ireland and public transport so appalling that it consumes a lot of after tax income just getting to work. If you actually were benefitting and getting a little ahead by working and being able to claim the 10-20km or whatever daily commute back then all the better.

If you think its expensive to run a car in Ireland, I'd gladly swap you for the Dutch one and you can get that tiny rebate every year

FYI the majority of people here use public transport, if everyone drove to work nobody would get to work.

lotas

ironclaw wrote: »

Commuting by car is only cheaper than public transport if there is two or more people in the car. And the example I'm taking is if your taking one bus and paying the Outer Suburban Fare.

In my case, a full fill of petrol is about €65 and about 580km in range. If your commute was 16km each way, a full fill for me is about (580/16) = 36 bus trips or equivalent to a fare of (€65/36) = €1.80. Thus each day costs me €3.60 (A round trip)

At €2.45 a trip on the bus (And that's the LEAP fare) that's €176.40 for the same amount of journeys. A 30 day journey card is about €125 (Or €4 per day)

The difficulty arises when you absorb the cost of taxing, insuring and maintaining a car. At a conservative estimate of say €1000 a year, that's €2.79 every single day of the year whether the car moves or not.

So the total cost of my commute, by car, is €3.60 + €2.79 = €6.39.

I'm not arguing for or against public transport. I commute by car as it would take in excess of 2 hours for me to get to work, and the same amount of time home. While the car journey is less than 35 mins by motorway. I should note the example above is a 16km example I happen to know, not related to my current commute.

I just don't like people being so cut and dry about a car being cheaper. Without a second passenger and combining the saving, its more expensive than public transport which should be cheaper anyway. The only considerations outside of cost are what a person is willing to endure in terms of private space, comfort and travel time. The cost in this example is €6.39 - €4 = €2.39, in favor of a bus, so if you commuted 240 days of the year, €575 of a saving versus using a car.

your costs are somewhat sound, but exclude the time part of the equation... in your case, if you value your time at 40EUR an hour, and its taking you an extra 1hr 25min per trip, that an extra 14 hours a week... thats 560 quid a week you would be "saving" by using a car, not public transport... In all fairness, i cant charge 40EUR an hour most of the time, but if i am stuck on a bus in traffic, i defiantly cant...

Sleepy

In order to take public transport to work (Clontarf - Blanchardstown), I'd need a bus, a train and a taxi to do it in a bit over an hour or two buses (into City Centre and back out) which'd take nearly 2 hours each way.

I'll stick with the car thanks.

keithclancy

Sleepy wrote: »

In order to take public transport to work (Clontarf - Blanchardstown), I'd need a bus, a train and a taxi to do it in a bit over an hour or two buses (into City Centre and back out) which'd take nearly 2 hours each way.

I'll stick with the car thanks.

Your point is that Public Transport is unsuitable because of where you live ?

This just means your tied to having a car.

lotas

keithclancy wrote: »

Your point is that Public Transport is unsuitable because of where you live ?

Well, Dublin Buses motto is "serviing the entire community"... in Sleepy and my case, they aint serving us...

_Kaiser_

lotas wrote: »

Well, Dublin Buses motto is "serviing the entire community"... in Sleepy and my case, they aint serving us...

Or most people thanks to its obsession on running everything through "An Lar"

I used to do the reverse trip many years ago.. Coolock to Blanch:
- It was either 2 or 3 buses each way (dependent on whether I wanted to go via "An Lar" or Finglas)
- It took anywhere between 90 mins - 2 hours each way (assuming you didn't get stranded in Finglas because a bus left early or didn't show)
- The same trip by car on the M50.. 30 mins max (as I often ended up having to fork out for a taxi anyway)

Or when I was doing Blanch to Cherrywood:
- Train into town, DART the rest of the way, shuttle bus to the estate (again about 90 mins, standing for the first part of the journey.. assuming everything showed on time)
- I lost count the amount of times I was left stranded in Pearse St Station for an hour because the return DART was late
- Same trip by car (even through the city @ 7am).. < 1 hr

The recent network review of services has only made things worse I gather.
Oh and the prices have shot up! My bus from Blanch to town was about €1.65 at the time. I got one from where I am now to the city centre a few months back (roughly the same distance/journey time) and it was nearly €3!!

No thanks.. I'll take my car and arrive in comfort (dry/warm/cool) and without having to factor in up to an hour of wasted time... plus I'm always guaranteed a seat!

Max Power1

lotas wrote: »

Well, Dublin Buses motto is "serviing the entire community"... in Sleepy and my case, they aint serving us...

And me, I live in Bluebell and work in Blanch, 20 mins drive on a good day whereas public transport would require me to go via city center and take either two buses (13 & 40d) or the luas and then the 40d. Well over 1.5 hours depending on syncup between luas and bus.

Definitely not an option other than to drive!

(And fyi I am not "tied to my car", I used to bus it to work from drumcondra as it was cheaper)

keithclancy

1hr drive for me to work or a 3 1/2 to 4 hr journey with Public Transport.

1km walk - Bus (Hermes) - Train (Nationaal Spoorwegen) - Train (Euro Bahn) - Tram (VRR) - 1 km walk

Wtf are you moaning about.

It's rarely convenient with Public Transport unless you chose to live on a transport line to your work.

But you pay for the privilege of driving.

dr.fuzzenstein

keithclancy wrote: »

Your point is that Public Transport is unsuitable because of where you live ?

This just means your tied to having a car.

Which nicely highlights the typical Irish attitude of "We cater for 60% of the people and the rest can kindly fcuk off and if you don't like it you can fcuk off again"
Not meaning keithclancy personally, of course.
The Irish don't do incentives, it's all punish, punish, punish and offer no alternative.
Then stand there with your big belly and whine "I don't understand why this doesn't work!"
Then blame all the people who don't do what you want them to do, because they can't but the bigwigs can't be arsed to get off their high horse long enough to actually ask them. The punish, ban and tax some more.
For me to get to work by pubic transport would be an epic adventure, akin to setting out to discover the source of the Amazon river. It would cost millions, take years and I might not make it, due to falling prey to savages and disease.
Public transport caters to x amount of the population and the rest are a convenient cash-cow to be gutted like a kipper and bled dry.
And what nobody takes into account is how many households have lost 50% of their income, but did the cost of living come down? Did it fcuk.
In the end you have to realise that the government doesn't care if you're dying in a ditch unless it costs them money, so I see any shortcut (legal, illegal, scheissegal) as fair game, because it's like this: you will either get chewed up and spat out or you can cheat, lie and steal and just about make it.
Cause if I was honest I would have lost the roof over my head years ago.

Eoin

lotas wrote: »

Well, Dublin Buses motto is "serviing the entire community"... in Sleepy and my case, they aint serving us...

Me neither - I go from Bray to Citywest every day. It takes about 35 minutes by car.

But I don't think it'd be reasonable for me to expect a direct link by public transport for my particular commute, which goes around the city, not through it. Sometimes driving just makes more sense, and that's the choice you make with where you're working and living.

Now, when I was working in Ballsbridge, it was often an hour+ (door to door) by bus, which is ridiculous.

keithclancy

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Which nicely highlights the typical Irish attitude of "We cater for 60% of the people and the rest can kindly fcuk off and if you don't like it you can fcuk off again"
Not meaning keithclancy personally, of course.
The Irish don't do incentives, it's all punish, punish, punish and offer no alternative.
Then stand there with your big belly and whine "I don't understand why this doesn't work!"
Then blame all the people who don't do what you want them to do, because they can't but the bigwigs can't be arsed to get off their high horse long enough to actually ask them. The punish, ban and tax some more.
For me to get to work by pubic transport would be an epic adventure, akin to setting out to discover the source of the Amazon river. It would cost millions, take years and I might not make it, due to falling prey to savages and disease.
Public transport caters to x amount of the population and the rest are a convenient cash-cow to be gutted like a kipper and bled dry.
And what nobody takes into account is how many households have lost 50% of their income, but did the cost of living come down? Did it fcuk.
In the end you have to realise that the government doesn't care if you're dying in a ditch unless it costs them money, so I see any shortcut (legal, illegal, scheissegal) as fair game, because it's like this: you will either get chewed up and spat out or you can cheat, lie and steal and just about make it.
Cause if I was honest I would have lost the roof over my head years ago.

Sounds like a Persons opinion living in Limburg, outside of Kristiansand or even Pornainen.

Not typically an Irish situation and all places where its more expensive to run a car.

I mean I could live near where I work but it would cost me far more accommodation wise.

Cars are cheap in Ireland, you even have the option of importing cheap cars from the UK with the steering wheel on the correct side

You don't have crazy expensive fuel, very high motor tax or very expensive tolls.

There's even some fun back roads to drive on, the rules are pretty lax, it isn't littered with more static speed cameras, average speed cameras, distance tail gating cameras or hidden speed cameras.

You don't get an automatic fine in the post if your motor tax or NCT is out of date.

The worst speeding penalty you can get is an 80 euro fine, you don't get fined a percentage of your wages or a sliding scale depending on how much you went over.

You have it good, basically you can own a metal box on wheels outside your door for very little money, maintain it if you like and drive away without having to watch for farting too loud incase you get a fine(indirect tax)

P.S. Its quite easy to live in a city in the Netherlands and spend over an hour getting to an office that's over 1 hour away by public transport, but only a 15 minute drive, for some reason the Dutch don't really do Orbital routes so you usually have to go in and back out, at least in my missus's case.

dr.fuzzenstein

I wouldn't mind living in Holland or Germany right now and not just for the weather and the food.
The thing is that Ireland was hit pretty hard, many households have lost over 50% of their income (mine included) and there where no jobs to be had.
In fact the cost of living has steadily gone up, whilst incomes have dropped shapely, companies using the recession to screw people (you like having a job? Well now you have one that pays 20% less. Don't like it? There's the door and a queue of people waiting to take over your job) and that's the ones still having a job.
Are the banks helping in this? Insofar as "Fcuk you, gimme your money" is helpful, yes.
Our bank threatened legal action within two weeks of us missing a payment. When they rang they where given a two word reply and the second word was "off".
It's irrelevant how cheap it is running a car in Ireland, because I'm sure in Holland and Germany (where it is expensive) large numbers of people suddenly did not have 60-70% less money and higher expenses.
How does the government help? By raising taxes.
It is all very well for the lucky few whose income is still largely intact (if you still earn 70% or over that means you) to sneer at people in distress.
I'm even lucky that my mortgage is not huge and my house is not in negative equity, but this has made things harder for me, I intend on keeping my house and every trick in the book had to be pulled for that.
For anyone else, i.e. house worth 100k with a 300k mortgage, listen to Uncle Ben, go bankrupt and let the bank take the hit, because you won't get any help or any thanks if you commit yourself to decades of financial misery and hardship, after which you will own a shoddily built Celtic Tiger house that most like will need tearing down anyway.
In other countries you get the sense that there is some planning and intelligence behind the running of the show. In Ireland you only get the sense that everything is run purely for the benefit of the elite and the only planning done is for parties and golf trips.