Israel apologists who claim that Israel is a "shining example of Western Democracy"..

hatrickpatrick

...and that unlike the Arabs, have a great civil rights record and are not a theocracy... How do you react to this?

http://www.rttnews.com/2092617/women-activists-held-for-violating-ban-at-jerusalem-western-wall.aspx?type=gn&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=sitemap

Women Activists Held For Violating Ban At Jerusalem Western Wall

4/11/2013 8:48 AM ET
Police on Thursday arrested five women activists at Jerusalem's Western Wall for violating a ban on performing religious rituals traditionally reserved for men, media reports said.

The Western Wall, believed to be part of the Biblical Temple compound, has separate sections for men and women to pray. More than 100 women gathered inside their enclosure at the wall to pray on Thursday morning with five of them from the 'Women of the Wall' (WoW) movement wearing 'tallitot,' prayer shawls traditionally worn by Orthodox Jewish men. Men on the other side of the partition heckled the group and objected to the women wearing the shawls.

The detained women included WoW Director Lesley Sachs. The group have vowed to lead prayer services at the site every month until the ban was lifted.

Western Wall and Holy Sites Rabbi Shamuel Rabinowitz expressed regret over what he called the "provocation" of a group of women who wore tallitot while praying at the Western Wall which was in violation of a 2003 court order.

I don't want this thread to turn into a generic Israel vs Palestine thread like most of these threads do. I'm merely wondering if I can perhaps open the eyes of any of the people who bestow grand titles on Israel and deny that it is, in fact, largely run by the rules of one particular religious group to the detriment of others.

In reality... Israel's civil liberties record, while perhaps not being as bad as some of its Arab neighbours, is a very, very far cry from the angelic light in which its supporters attempt to paint it.

Thoughts?

Jonny7

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

I don't want this thread to turn into a generic Israel vs Palestine thread like most of these threads do.

Yet you decide to call it

Israel apologists who claim that Israel is a "shining example of Western Democracy"

hyperborean

Who are these people apologising for Isreal?

golfball37

Its a religous matter ffs. Nothing to do with the government. Govt forces are called in every country to quell any form of protest.

If you want to attack Israel there's other things you could get excited about. In some Arab countries 5 women wouldn't even be let outside together so Israel is always gonna compare favourably.

riffmongous

golfball37 wrote: »

Its a religous matter ffs. Nothing to do with the government. Govt forces are called in every country to quell any form of protest.

If you want to attack Israel there's other things you could get excited about. In some Arab countries 5 women wouldn't even be let outside together so Israel is always gonna compare favourably.

I thought the point of the thread was not to compare it to arab countries but 'Western' democracies. If you had British police arresting 5 Muslim women outside together I think you might get a complaint or two

brimal

Why such a provocative title OP? You are looking for a confrontation by the looks of it.

I suspect you know very little about the Women of the Wall movement and are using this as some sort of bait.

Anat Hoffman and co. have been protesting and getting arrested for decades now, this isn't something new. It's a complete mess down there every month. To be fair to the police, they don't want to arrest the women at all but the Orthodox groups down there go ape****.

biko

Jewish women protest segregation of women and men by wearing men's religious outfits.
They get detained because there is a court order ban for this apparently.
It's not like they will spend time in prison (I wager).

Some people clutch at anything to have a go at Israel as a whole when there some some religious group being crazy religious.


Edit, and there you go
http://www.timesofisrael.com/female-worshipers-released-from-custody/

Court frees female activists, calls Western Wall arrests groundless

brimal

The women have been released already.

It happens every month. A few of the women get arrested because there is huge confrontation between them and the Orthodox down there. It can get extremely heated and sometimes turns violent.

For the record, the huge majority of Israel (and the Knesset) don't mind the women praying or wearing what they like, it's just the ultra-religious who take it very seriously.

There is a decision due from the Supreme Court soon and it's rumoured it will favour the Women of the Wall.

biko

Pretty good example of a Western democracy in my book.

Now, try this stunt in Mecca.

CrinkElite

Mod: Video only post, not allowed.

johnnyskeleton

Also, just because Israel isn't a non-secular state doesn't mean that it is a theocracy. There is a big difference between a state having a strong religious position and being a theocracy.

In any event, this whole "only democracy in the Middle East" vs "terrorist/rogue states" is a false dichotomy imported from the USA. Most rational people can see both sides of the conflict and realise it is not a simple situation at all. If anything, what is unfortunate is the amount of people who support Palestine for no good reason other than a sublimation of their united ireland beliefs.

riffmongous

just a follow up,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22298067

a court ruled that the police were wrong to arrest the women, police appealled and the court rejected the appeal. Whatever about the police at least the courts are working properly.