Setting Out

Tim76

Hi,

Working on a commercial building at the mo.

Can anyone confirm who's job is it to set out the foundations, pads & structural steel of a building; the architect or the structural engineer?

I would assume that for more complicated structures, setting out of the above items would fall to the engineer??

DOCARCH

Contractor.

Architect and/or engineer provides necessary information for setting out after that, it's the contractor's responsibility to set out.

Tim76

DOCARCH wrote: »

Contractor.

Architect and/or engineer provides necessary information for setting out after that, it's the contractor's responsibility to set out.

Thanks DOCARCH.

I'm actually PM on this project and we are a relatively young and inexperienced design team when it comes to this type of build.

My problem is is that the architect (architectural technologist in fact) is saying that as the builder is requesting a setting out drawing showing foundations, pads and structural steel the drawing is the responsibility of the engineer. The engineer is saying all setting out is the responsibility of the project architect. Hence the impasse at the mo!

DOCARCH

Tim76 wrote: »

My problem is is that the architect (architectural technologist in fact) is saying that as the builder is requesting a setting out drawing showing foundations, pads and structural steel the drawing is the responsibility of the engineer. The engineer is saying all setting out is the responsibility of the project architect. Hence the impasse at the mo!

Sorry, don't mean to laugh.

Yes, if the builder requests, somebody should issue setting out drawings...as to who, in this case, is slightly more a difficult question to answer?

Both the architect and engineer are sort of right and I can see where both are coming from but somebody has to take the lead? I would have thought, generally, it would be architects role to coordinate dimensions?

Who is the 'lead' professional? Is it you as PM?

Tim76

DOCARCH wrote: »

Sorry, don't mean to laugh.

Yes, if the builder requests, somebody should issue setting out drawings...as to who, in this case, is slightly more a difficult question to answer?

Both the architect and engineer are sort of right and I can see where both are coming from but somebody has to take the lead? I would have thought, generally, it would be architects role to coordinate dimensions?

Who is the 'lead' professional? Is it you as PM?

I've just had a chat with them there and they've decided to work together on the drawing.

I'm getting all misty eyed

Thanks for your input!

muffler

Every day is a learning day

sydthebeat

in my experience the actual 'setting out' is done by builder, BUT the certifying architect / engineer will always locate an agreed point, usually front corner, so that everyone is in agreement that the building is going to be located in compliance with permission.

landcrzr

Usually the Architect is concerned about where things go as they are typically responsible for critical dimensions to comply with building regs and fire certs etc not to mention the aesthetics of the build. The Engineer is more concerned with what size structural elements are.
It is typical for a consulting Engineer to issue general arrangement drawings based on the Architects grid. These drawings will indicate foundation sizes, column and beam sizes but seldom include dimensions, especially gridline dimensions, they usually show beams and columns on grid. They will typically include levels though.
The Architect is required to accommodate the size of the structural elements in his/her design and is responsible for the finer position of them.
To recap, as an Engineer, I want to see that the correct size beam, column, pad etc is installed, it doesn't bother me if it is in the middle of a window from a structural point of view, the Architect may have a kitten though.
My advice is to sort it out among yourselves quickly. It is expensive to build something and have to knock it down if it's in the wrong place. If such mistakes happen and it's down to conflicting or lack of information from the designers, the client will have to pay for it and they will not thank you for the pleasure.

glencoe

Tim76 wrote: »

I've just had a chat with them there and they've decided to work together on the drawing.

I'm getting all misty eyed

Thanks for your input!

It seems strange to me that even though you have a builder on site the consultants are only getting around to doing a setting out drawing !
If they currently do not have a floor/foundation plan what did the builder price to build.
Builder would normally set out from the architects grid as agreed with the engineer.

Tim76

glencoe wrote: »

It seems strange to me that even though you have a builder on site the consultants are only getting around to doing a setting out drawing !
If they currently do not have a floor/foundation plan what did the builder price to build.
Builder would normally set out from the architects grid as agreed with the engineer.

There was a floor/foundation plan at tender stage inc. grid. He has requested an additional setting out drawing showing the foundations, pads, structural steel, location of local datums and their levels and co-ordinates

Supertech

That information will require a digital survey of the site. Was there one done in the first place ? If so the coordinate grid already exists, and the local datums also exist. The surveyor or engineer who carried this out is best placed to do the setting out as he or she will have all of the relevant information to hand, and will most likely have permanent reference markers left at or near the site for just this purpose.

This person should be engaged by the builder - setting out is undertaken by the contractor and approved by the architect or engineer.

If there isn't a survey already, the contractors request for coordinates means that you'll need to do a basic digital survey on the site to establish that the boundaries are correct and that the building actually fits on the site (don't laugh, I've seen it happen !!)

This will then establish a grid and a datum to work from, and from that, the floor plan or foundation plan can be stripped down and points added to provide the setting out coordinates required. These can then be set out using GPS or Total Station.

From experience, and as has been said above, it's a good idea to establish corner points first in order to make sure there are no clashes in terms of minimum clearances from boundaries or other on site restrictions.

scwazrh

Tim76 wrote: »

He has requested an additional setting out drawing showing the foundations, pads, structural steel, location of local datums and their levels and co-ordinates

As a contractor we would ask for this exact same information.Some clients assign a management company for the project and that is who we would send this type of RFI to.if not we would send it to the client who would pass it on to the first person they engaged on to the site which hopefully would be a surveyor .Architects usually work from surveyors info so it is from my experience the norm for the surveyor to give one if not two set out points that every measurement follows from.
In terms of who physically measures where to put the bucket of the digger it is normally the contractor but their measurement would be from the architects drawing who would have decided on the measurement from the surveyors report.the width of the dig would be decideded by the engineer.