Atlantic Flight Training

Johann.

Hello guys,

Long time reader, first time poster.

Background story is short and simple, wanted to be a pilot and left school and my moral compass guided me away from my parents remortgaging the house etc, tried out University and it didn't suit me, have worked my butt off for the last 3 years and along with that and the money my parents had saved for me to go through college, i'll hopefully be in a position to commence training this time next year, if all goes to plan.

The question is now, where do I commence that training?

Having been to various exhibitions and talking to various pilots (as I work in Dublin Airport) - I've always been of the opinion that paying €100k + is absolutely crazy. The likes of FTE and Oxford, although I'm sure the training is excellent, have on numerous occasions failed to be able to tell me why I should pay nearly 40k more to train with them over say...Stapleford, or any other integrated/modular course in a different school. All the answers I've gotten to date all seem to be very, very fluffy. Which is off putting. Large display stands at the said exhibitions don't do it for me either.


I've always liked the idea of a smaller school, a close knit community as such. As i feel i'd be more comfortable in this setting. Of course money is a factor, but open to suggestions etc.

Modular vs Integrated? Do airlines really prefare one over the other these days? If they do, all I hear nowadays is that Integrated is the way to go from current pilots.

Places I am strongly considering is Atlantic Flight Training in Cork, Stapleford Flight Centre and European Flight training. I know 2 people who have flown at two of these schools and had nothing but good to say about them.

I'm of the opinion that you're going to hear good and bad about all schools, experiences will differ and that's just life. Some people will moan more than others and other factors.

I am 21, I like to think in what I've achieved in the 3 years in my current job that it is something to potentially fall back on however I'd hope I wouldn't have to. Youth is on my side.

So, if you've anything to say, good or bad, about the above schools or alternative solutions, please throw your advice this way. Just don't let it turn into a school bashing thread like every second thread on PPRUNE!

Thank you in advance,
J

Bsal

The National flight centre at Weston offer an integrated course if you would prefer to train full time and is alot cheaper than any other integrated course around http://www.nfc.ie/content.aspx?id=71&subid=98&pageid=48

They also offer modular training which would be cheaper and if you want could stay in employment at your current job while training. http://www.nfc.ie/content.aspx?id=71&subid=98&pageid=43

markhar9877

I've come to the belief recently that the school itself matters little. I think you'll find will all turn out adequately trained pilots and of course they will be all be happy to tell you about the success of their graduates. Even if they did nothing to help them get the job. Let's face it, if you went to cookery school, you will probably end up working as a chef. Same with pilot schools or it should be.

Ultimately your success or failure as a pilot will come down to you unless the school is a complete crock. Some people are not cut out to be pilots, same as any other job. The school will still take your money though. Although a good school might take you to one side and tell you the truth.

I've met one or two 'pilots' who really should have been told the truth at some point. They're only too happy to tell you how great the school was. Yet they lack basic skills.

My only advice is to go to a school where the Instructors will drive you to achieve your best and who worry about their good reputation. If it's all a bit too 'family' and relaxed it will all depend entirely on your committment to the goal. More than one pilot has been successful in spite of their training. In fact one is sitting here in front of this computer.

Just my two cents.

Johann.

markhar9877 wrote: »

I've come to the belief recently that the school itself matters little. I think you'll find will all turn out adequately trained pilots and of course they will be all be happy to tell you about the success of their graduates. Even if they did nothing to help them get the job. Let's face it, if you went to cookery school, you will probably end up working as a chef. Same with pilot schools or it should be.

Ultimately your success or failure as a pilot will come down to you unless the school is a complete crock. Some people are not cut out to be pilots, same as any other job. The school will still take your money though. Although a good school might take you to one side and tell you the truth.

I've met one or two 'pilots' who really should have been told the truth at some point. They're only too happy to tell you how great the school was. Yet they lack basic skills.

My only advice is to go to a school where the Instructors will drive you to achieve your best and who worry about their good reputation. If it's all a bit too 'family' and relaxed it will all depend entirely on your committment to the goal. More than one pilot has been successful in spite of their training. In fact one is sitting here in front of this computer.

Just my two cents.

And that's a belief I share with yourself.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. If you don't mind me asking, where did you train?

It's the same in a lot of industries now though. Employers look at the person, people have degrees, licenses and so on. That doesn't mean they're going to cut it.

I know of two guys who trained in Jerez, one has a job, the other doesn't. If I could put money on which one would of got a job first, i'd have won a little money.

I don't think drive and determination is something I lack, so i'll be fine in that sense. I'd like to have the support of some students around me, but as you said, not overly 'friendly' atmosphere as that could be a negative also.

I've heard a bit about the NFC, however, never actually gave it much attention, based in Dublin so might drive out this weekend.

markhar9877

I started quite a while ago so it won't help particularly since they're long gone. No not PTC. I didn't realise how badly I was trained until I went somewhere else and practically started again.

I did some training with the NFC at advanced level but again not recent so irrelevant really. But they suited me and that's important, not everyone likes their style.

In terms of pilot selection, it's hard to define but you know it when you see it. As I said in the Aer Lingus thread there are a lot of nerdy pilots coming through now. Not Captain material. It matters.

Are you Captain material? Be honest!

Johann.

markhar9877 wrote: »

I started quite a while ago so it won't help particularly since they're long gone. No not PTC. I didn't realise how badly I was trained until I went somewhere else and practically started again.

I did some training with the NFC at advanced level but again not recent so irrelevant really. But they suited me and that's important, not everyone likes their style.

In terms of pilot selection, it's hard to define but you know it when you see it. As I said in the Aer Lingus thread there are a lot of nerdy pilots coming through now. Not Captain material. It matters.

Are you Captain material? Be honest!

Captain Material?

Bit premature to be making that kind of judgement. Based on what my current job entails, decision making, leading a team, being in control - then perhaps. Obviously it's a different story when you've got a couple of hundred people's lives in your hands - however, that isn't a deterrent as one should only be put in that position if adequately trained and suitable, which everyone is not going to be, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't and can't have a career in aviation?

Again, I feel you're moving away from my first post. What you're saying isn't necessarily useful to me at the moment.

I'm looking for advice on schools, not looking to assess myself as a potential captian just yet. I wouldn't be willing to invest all my savings in myself If i didn't think I had what it takes to a) complete the training to a high standard b) be an attractive potential to an airline.

At this stage, I just need sound, informative advice on the above mentioned schools where possible and NFC, as another potential school of choice.

logie101

Hi OP,

Professional flight training is an expensive business and you are wise to invest a lot of time and research to ensuring you select the right approach for you.
But I am just curious as to why you want to be an airline pilot? Sometimes the reality is far removed from the perception.

Have you conducted any flight hours or air experience flights? Do you think that you have what it takes to pass the ATPLs?

I am not trying to put you off but these are difficult questions I had to ask myself. For me exercising the privileges of my PPL and flying a variety of light aircraft fulfills my love of flight. Commercial airline flying can become a job were one merely manages systems.


Since you have a job (which is a feat in the current climate) and considering you age would you not considering logging a few hours with a view to doing a PPL and then maybe going down a modular route?

NFC is definitely worth investigating further.

Johann.

logie101 wrote: »

Hi OP,

Professional flight training is an expensive business and you are wise to invest a lot of time and research to ensuring you select the right approach for you.
But I am just curious as to why you want to be an airline pilot? Sometimes the reality is far removed from the perception.

Have you conducted any flight hours or air experience flights? Do you think that you have what it takes to pass the ATPLs?

I am not trying to put you off but these are difficult questions I had to ask myself. For me exercising the privileges of my PPL and flying a variety of light aircraft fulfills my love of flight. Commercial airline flying can become a job were one merely manages systems.


Since you have a job (which is a feat in the current climate) and considering you age would you not considering logging a few hours with a view to doing a PPL and then maybe going down a modular route?

NFC is definitely worth investigating further.

Yeah, I've a couple experience flights under the belt. Not many, mainly given to myself as gifts over the years.

I know that commercial flying isn't all it's thought to be, in the sense that's it's not the glamorous job that perhaps everyone views it as. For me, I loved the flying and would get great enjoyment in flying other people to various parts of the world, whilst enjoying what I do.

I've thought about integrated vs modular and most schools can offer both whether advertised or not (upon request!).

I've done a lot of research over the last while, phonecalls have been made, lengthy discussions with family and with pilots currently flying in and out of Dublin Airport on a daily basis. Hey, I know it's not going to be easy and it'll take a lot of hard work to get there, but i'm prepared for that.

There's some guys that are flying for RYR that absolutely love it and has been worth all the blood, sweat and tears. If I could get to that stage, i'd know i've done something right.

cuterob

Just go for it.. if you really wanna do it then do it.. you only live once and it sounds like you're in a better financial position starting off than most people would be so just do it or spend the rest of your life wondering what if

Xpro

Integrated or modular? Just remember they all come out with the same licence in the end.
Integrated course, you get full attention and you get it done quicker.( providing you are able to put the head down and sweat for 16-18 months.

Modular: a bit more relaxed, but still tough going especially if you are working and studying. Will take longer, but that is up to you. Can be done in the same period if you wanted.

Its the effort and the preparation you put into it that makes you better.

Ryanair, city jet,flybe have employed many modular students over the past few years with no issues at all.

Pilotdude5

Xpro wrote: »

Integrated course, you get full attention and you get it done quicker.( providing you are able to put the head down and sweat for 16-18 months.

And *Cough Have plenty of money*Cough

Stovepipe

First, do your Class 1 medical.You may have an underlying issue that prevents you from getting a CPL. Before you spend a cent on flying.Second, do not trust flying schools with your money up front; pay in instalments. Third, your ME/IR will cost a bomb to keep current but you only have to renew in the aircraft every second year.Fourth, you have to network like crazy to get your name in front of the recruiters. You have to get your name and face in his/her eye long enough to get the precious first interview.Fifth, study hard.

regards
Stovepipe

Johann.

Stovepipe wrote: »

First, do your Class 1 medical.You may have an underlying issue that prevents you from getting a CPL. Before you spend a cent on flying.Second, do not trust flying schools with your money up front; pay in instalments. Third, your ME/IR will cost a bomb to keep current but you only have to renew in the aircraft every second year.Fourth, you have to network like crazy to get your name in front of the recruiters. You have to get your name and face in his/her eye long enough to get the precious first interview.Fifth, study hard.

regards
Stovepipe

Am going to do the medical in the next few weeks, just to get that bit out of the way. Have been advised that before.

Thanks for the advice stovepipe.

cooleys reel

Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me how much the course in Cork costs for both the integrated and modular. I have a keen interest in flying and might consider Afta. Any more info appreciated.

Cessna_Pilot

cooleys reel wrote: »

Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me how much the course in Cork costs for both the integrated and modular. I have a keen interest in flying and might consider Afta. Any more info appreciated.

Think they have a website with contact details on it.

deaddonkey15

cooleys reel wrote: »

Hi guys,

Can anyone tell me how much the course in Cork costs for both the integrated and modular. I have a keen interest in flying and might consider Afta. Any more info appreciated.

Integrated is €72,000. If you already have PPL flying experience I think they will credit you 50% of your hours up to a total of 40 hours.


For modular,

PPL - €11,995
Night rating - €1,455
ATPLs - €4,420
Hour Building - €17,500 (100 hours on Cessna 172 @ €175 per hour)
CPL - €10,300
ME/IR - €16,990
MCC/JOC - €4,250

pepe the prawn

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

Integrated is €72,000. If you already have PPL flying experience I think they will credit you 50% of your hours up to a total of 40 hours.


For modular,

PPL - €11,995
Night rating - €1,455
ATPLs - €4,420
Hour Building - €17,500 (100 hours on Cessna 172 @ €175 per hour)
CPL - €10,300
ME/IR - €16,990
MCC/JOC - €4,250

The prices for modular have increased in the last few weeks, there's at least another €3000 gone on overall. And don't forget the MEP which is circa €3500.

deaddonkey15

pepe the prawn wrote: »

The prices for modular have increased in the last few weeks, there's at least another €3000 gone on overall. And don't forget the MEP which is circa €3500.

I was unsure about the MEP, is it not incorporated into the ME/IR?

pepe the prawn

deaddonkey15 wrote: »

I was unsure about the MEP, is it not incorporated into the ME/IR?

No, once you have the atpls completed and finished your building, then you do the MEP, then CPL, then MEIR. That's the way atlantic do it but it may differ from school to school. MEP is 5 hours in the aircraft and one hour in the sim. The MEP training is done before you start the CPL, but the flight test is then a combined MEP/CPL flight test.

Dingle_berry

If you do go the modular route what are the time limits for each stage? Don't things like the ME and IR ratings expire or cost a fortune to keep up?

TheFitz13

Have my leaving in a day, and I want to be a pilot and am really considering this place.. after college though.

martinsvi

pepe the prawn wrote: »

The prices for modular have increased in the last few weeks, there's at least another €3000 gone on overall. And don't forget the MEP which is circa €3500.

really? That's me decided then, continent here I come! They were already one of the most expensive establishments, I guess they don't want modular students anymore ..

pepe the prawn

martinsvi wrote: »

really? That's me decided then, continent here I come! They were already one of the most expensive establishments, I guess they don't want modular students anymore ..

That includes an increase in the price for the ATPL's and hour building, which if you don't need then the price for the MEP/CPL/MEIR is almost the same as previously.

I wouldn't say they don't want modular students, on the contrary, there's quite a few of them there in recent months.