Token meters and balances

January

Hi, 
I am asking this question for my parents. They had a debt collection meter installed years ago and cleared the debt some time ago. As this method of payment suited their needs at the time they continued to pay into the meter, if the electricity was cut off they topped it up as normal. This was all fine, whenever they received a bill from Electric Ireland they always seemed to be in credit with their bills. That is, until a few months ago they received a bill to the tune of 225.24 euro. According to this bill, she had topped up the meter by 230.00 euro but there was still a charge of 408.38. 

I find this very confusing, as if my mother runs out of credit on the meter, her electricity is switched off and if she presses the emergency credit button, when she tops up again, there is credit taken to cover that. Why is there a discrepancy between how much she puts in her meter and how much her bill is? 

She does not want to switch from a meter as this payment option suits her. 

Thank you.

EI: Una

Hi January,

We are checking into this for you and will have a response tomorrow.

Regards,
Una

EI: Una

Hi again January,

Is the bill an estimate or based on a reading? Or were any previous bills under-estimated resulting in the difference being billed now, following a reading? Ideally we would need to be able to view the account in question and we cannot via this medium as you are not the named account-holder.
Has the token meter been recalibrated in light of the unit price change last October?

With a token meter, the customer is paying in advance of usage, and could over-pay or under-pay. E.g. if they pay in €10 and end up using €12 worth of electricity until the next payment, that is arrears of €2, and this can snowball.

We need to advise also that the token meter was specifically designed as a debt management facility rather than a standard payment means, so technically it should be removed when arrears are paid. Token meters are also being phased out, with fewer vendors supplying the tokens. A bill account can be treated as a pre-pay account via various payment means, including the EasyPay card at the post office.

Regards,
Una

January

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi again January,

Is the bill an estimate or based on a reading? Or were any previous bills under-estimated resulting in the difference being billed now, following a reading? Ideally we would need to be able to view the account in question and we cannot via this medium as you are not the named account-holder.
Has the token meter been recalibrated in light of the unit price change last October?

With a token meter, the customer is paying in advance of usage, and could over-pay or under-pay. E.g. if they pay in €10 and end up using €12 worth of electricity until the next payment, that is arrears of €2, and this can snowball.

We need to advise also that the token meter was specifically designed as a debt management facility rather than a standard payment means, so technically it should be removed when arrears are paid. Token meters are also being phased out, with fewer vendors supplying the tokens. A bill account can be treated as a pre-pay account via various payment means, including the EasyPay card at the post office.

Regards,
Una

Hi Una, 
The bill is based on a reading and I am not sure if any of the other bills were under estimated. Yes, the meter was calibrated in December. 

Regarding the bolded bit above, how is it that you are paying in advance of usage if the meter cuts out when the credit runs out? My mother tops up on average of €30 euro a week, she'd rarely press the emergency button on the meter as she would have tokens kept in her purse to top up as soon as it ran out. 

I do realise that the token meter was specifically designed as a debt management facility, why is it then my parents were not contacted when they debt was cleared to arrange to have the meter removed and put back onto one of the direct debit facilities? 

markad1

If the debt was clear how could she run up more debt? 
The meter can only use the credit put into it and these meters charge more for Kwh than the standard charge (could be wrong here)

January

What annoys me most is Electric Ireland claim that you pay for your electricity in advance, why does the meter cut off the electricity to the house when the credit runs out if this is the case?

hdowney

January wrote: »

What annoys me most is Electric Ireland claim that you pay for your electricity in advance, why does the meter cut off the electricity to the house when the credit runs out if this is the case?

This!

EI: Una

Hello again,

Apologies for the confusion caused by the turn of phrase I used. It is correct that the token meter is not pre-pay, it is a debt managing facility. In this case though, because the arrears for which the meter was originally installed are cleared, I referred to it in terms of payment for current usage.

When a token meter is kept topped up, it allows for electricity to be consumed at a property; however, a customer can consume more power than the amount they have topped up with, resulting in a bill amount that includes the difference. For example, if a person puts a €10 token in the meter and uses €15 worth of electricity, they will receive a bill for the difference of €5.00
As pointed out, there is the emergency credit button. When the emergency credit or part of it is used, this is automatically debited immediately from the next top-up.

January, we would recommend checking previous statements to see whether there was an under-estimate (or a series of them). We would also recommend that the account-holder contact us, as specific details of the account would create a clearer picture. If they would like you to speak with us here on Boards.ie by private message, we just require that they contact us to give permission to add your name as an authorised contact first.

Unfortunately, it is not feasible for letters to be issued every time a customer balance goes to 0, so we can understand customers being under the impression that they can continue using the token meter as a standard payments means; however, the recommendation is to have the token meter removed as its correct purpose is met once arrears are cleared.

Regards,
Una

January

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hello again,

Apologies for the confusion caused by the turn of phrase I used. It is correct that the token meter is not pre-pay, it is a debt managing facility. In this case though, because the arrears for which the meter was originally installed are cleared, I referred to it in terms of payment for current usage.

When a token meter is kept topped up, it allows for electricity to be consumed at a property; however, a customer can consume more power than the amount they have topped up with, resulting in a bill amount that includes the difference. For example, if a person puts a €10 token in the meter and uses €15 worth of electricity, they will receive a bill for the difference of €5.00
As pointed out, there is the emergency credit button. When the emergency credit or part of it is used, this is automatically debited immediately from the next top-up.

January, we would recommend checking previous statements to see whether there was an under-estimate (or a series of them). We would also recommend that the account-holder contact us, as specific details of the account would create a clearer picture. If they would like you to speak with us here on Boards.ie by private message, we just require that they contact us to give permission to add your name as an authorised contact first.

Unfortunately, it is not feasible for letters to be issued every time a customer balance goes to 0, so we can understand customers being under the impression that they can continue using the token meter as a standard payments means; however, the recommendation is to have the token meter removed as its correct purpose is met once arrears are cleared.

Regards,
Una

I'll get my mum to ring tomorrow to add my name as an authorized contact. I'm still very confused about this though. How can you use more power than the amount they have topped up with if the meter cuts out when the amount they have topped up with runs out? It's just very very confusing, and it seems I'm not the only one.

wmpdd3

January wrote: »

I'll get my mum to ring tomorrow to add my name as an authorized contact. I'm still very confused about this though. How can you use more power than the amount they have topped up with if the meter cuts out when the amount they have topped up with runs out? It's just very very confusing, and it seems I'm not the only one.

My friend is having the same issue, she tops up by €40 per week, her bill was €210 in arrears. The rate set was 33% per top up going to clear her arrears but now her bills are clearing at a different rate. Her bill is clearing at 1/2 the rate it was, even though she is topping up the same amount and her usage is the same. She has used the emergency units 4 times in the last 4 month.

Also she has free units from the household package. 

She was told only last week there was no way she could owe the bill she received and someone is investigating. So it seems not so cut and dry. 

I have her taking pictures of her meter before and after she tops up.

sondu

I am having the same problem. My "BILL" has esclated to 548euros now. Ive had the meter in my home since I moved in 16 years ago. This is the first time i've heard it is not a pre-pay but a means for debt payment.  I can not understand why in gods name you install a meter to help people recover from a debt and provide them with a piece of equipment that will untilmately send them back into debt!! This does not make any sense what so ever! My father has received an esb bill also with extra charges on. He is a pensioner, so he is also getting into more debt at the hands of Electric Ireland. Is there not some sort of regulartor over the electricy board that this can be brought to?

Last week an electric ireland rep called to my house and i asked him about it.. he told me to ignore these bills and it was a waste of time even calling them as it is an outside call centre and you will get nowhere.

I think I'll be making the switch to prepaypower.

EI: Una

sondu wrote: »

I am having the same problem. My "BILL" has esclated to 548euros now. Ive had the meter in my home since I moved in 16 years ago. This is the first time i've heard it is not a pre-pay but a means for debt payment.  I can not understand why in gods name you install a meter to help people recover from a debt and provide them with a piece of equipment that will untilmately send them back into debt!! This does not make any sense what so ever! My father has received an esb bill also with extra charges on. He is a pensioner, so he is also getting into more debt at the hands of Electric Ireland. Is there not some sort of regulartor over the electricy board that this can be brought to?

Hi Sondu,

The token meter is not pre-pay as it is installed to help customers clear arrears as well as pay for current usage, with a percentage of every top-up going towards each. A further outstanding amount due will materialise also if usage exceeds top-up and the emergency credit is dipped into, or if the token meter requires recalibration.

There would not be extra charges other than the recurring ones of standing charge/PSO levy/VAT, which are detailed on every account statement. The unit price remains the same as of last October.

If you wish, do private message one of us your Electric Ireland account number and your name/address in full, as well as the contact telephone number on your account, and we will investigate for you.
We would recommend that your father contact Electric Ireland for advice regarding his bill. If he would like yourself to discuss it, we would just need a note on the account advising he gave authorisation for this over the telephone.

Regards,
Una

Cushie Butterfield

sondu wrote: »

 Is there not some sort of regulartor over the electricy board that this can be brought to?

The regulator is CER http://www.cer.ie/en/about-us-contact-us.aspx

sondu

Electric Ireland: Una wrote: »

Hi Sondu,

The token meter is not pre-pay as it is installed to help customers clear arrears as well as pay for current usage, with a percentage of every top-up going towards each. A further outstanding amount due will materialise also if usage exceeds top-up and the emergency credit is dipped into, or if the token meter requires recalibration.

There would not be extra charges other than the recurring ones of standing charge/PSO levy/VAT, which are detailed on every account statement. The unit price remains the same as of last October.

If you wish, do private message one of us your Electric Ireland account number and your name/address in full, as well as the contact telephone number on your account, and we will investigate for you.
We would recommend that your father contact Electric Ireland for advice regarding his bill. If he would like yourself to discuss it, we would just need a note on the account advising he gave authorisation for this over the telephone.

Regards,
Una

Una,

if it is not a pre-pay machine then why do i still have it after the arrears where cleared almost 15 years ago?

Seems a joke that the machine is still installed. I will contact you later with my account number and I will ask my father to call to allow me to speak on his behalf if he can manage it. he has taken a stroke and his speech is badly effected.

I've also taken the matter to my public representitive who may deal with this issue on my behalf

sondu

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

The regulator is CER http://www.cer.ie/en/about-us-contact-us.aspx

Thanks Cushie butterfield

hdowney

We had our machine removed (because of above issues among other things) and we STILL have people calling (and leaving notes when we are not in) that they called to recalibrate our meter and couldn't get access!!!

EI: Una

sondu wrote: »

Una,

if it is not a pre-pay machine then why do i still have it after the arrears where cleared almost 15 years ago?

Seems a joke that the machine is still installed.

Hello again Sondu,

The customer would have been required to contact us to have the token meter removed. When we have your details we can arrange to have it removed for you. If a customer pays an amount in advance of usage that does not cover their usage, the emergency credit is dipped into, and each time this happens, the amount due may accumulate.

Sorry to read about your father's illness - our telephone line is open until 8pm tonight. The telephone advisor would ideally need to speak with the account-holder before discussing the account with another party. We appreciate this may be quite difficult for him and just need to advise that it is because of data protection legislation that it is so pressing that we speak with the named account-holder for authorisation to discuss the account with another contact.

Regards,
Una

sondu

hdowney wrote: »

We had our machine removed (because of above issues among other things) and we STILL have people calling (and leaving notes when we are not in) that they called to recalibrate our meter and couldn't get access!!!

Its an absolute joke. I have had this machine almost 17 years now and have had the machine calibrated probably twice! Ridiculous..They leave it to the customer to call to have the machine removed having the knowledge that the customer will inevitably build up another debt.. Have you remained with Electric Ireland? Im considering going to pre pay power, some friends have recommended them

hdowney

sondu wrote: »

Its an absolute joke. I have had this machine almost 17 years now and have had the machine calibrated probably twice! Ridiculous..They leave it to the customer to call to have the machine removed having the knowledge that the customer will inevitably build up another debt.. Have you remained with Electric Ireland? Im considering going to pre pay power, some friends have recommended them

At the moment yes we are still with Elec Ireland. Considering not sticking around tho. shop around, they don't got the monopoly on electricity anymore