EU license and insurance premium...

H3llR4iser

Just found out that some insurance companies apply roughly double the premiums to drivers holding an EU license when compared to drivers holding a full Irish. Essentially, holding an full EU license causes one to pay as much as the holder of an Irish Learner permit/provisional license. Since they make no difference about where the test was taken (in other words, somebody coming over with an EU license and exchanging it for an Irish one, is considered the holder of a full Irish), I guess the whole thing is about penalty points.

Still, I'm very surprised the EU lets this kind of stuff happen...

ABajaninCork

I've heard this too, but so far have seen no difference in the premium...

I've also heard that Aviva and Axa are two of the companies involved. Is there any truth in that?

ShadowHearth

Some companies do, some no.

I had EU license and oh boy it was fun shoping. Now I got full irish license and they still ask if I got it in Ireland...

meathstevie

I hold a full EU licence and over the years I've been insured with Eagle Star, Hibernian (now Aviva), AXA, Quinn Direct and FBD and I've always been paying "normal" premiums in as far as that was possible in the Irish insurance market up until quite recently.

H3llR4iser

123.ie applies nearly double rates:

32 years old male, 1 year NCB, EU license, driving a 1.4L : 1179 Euro;

32 years old male, 1 year NCB, IE license, driving a 1.4L: 720 Euro;

Same as above, 5 years NCB, EU license: 606 Euro;

Same as abobe, 5 years NCB, IE License: 345 Euro;

It's ridiculous and, in the case of some companies, new: I am with 123.ie since last year and one of the reasons I went with them was that they didn't apply any considerable difference back then...

CiniO

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Just found out that some insurance companies apply roughly double the premiums to drivers holding an EU license when compared to drivers holding a full Irish. Essentially, holding an full EU license causes one to pay as much as the holder of an Irish Learner permit/provisional license. Since they make no difference about where the test was taken (in other words, somebody coming over with an EU license and exchanging it for an Irish one, is considered the holder of a full Irish), I guess the whole thing is about penalty points.

In most cases it is due to penalty points, as on EU licence insurer has no way to verify driving history and amount of penalty points.
That was the reason I swapped my Polish licence for Irish one. (saved me 200 quid on insurance per year).

Still, I'm very surprised the EU lets this kind of stuff happen...

EU can not take care of everything if they are not even aware of it. And even if they do take care of something, it takes ages for the result.

F.e. we had an issue in Poland that imported second hand cars with valid test certificate from country of origin, had to go through car test in Poland once imported (foreign test cert was not recognised) Someone made complain to EU commission, and it took years, but eventually EU commission forced Poland to change regulations.
Exactly the same case applies to Ireland (foreign test certs are not recognised) but so far no one put the case to EU commission. If someone did, after few years probably law would have to be amended.

Another example is RHD cars which can't be imported to Poland (office won't register them). Complaint has been made to EU commission, and it already took 2 years and no result so far. Hopefully it will be amended eventually.


There are lots of injustices within EU on small things like that, and it's going to take centuries before they are all resolved.

H3llR4iser

CiniO wrote: »

...There are lots of injustices within EU on small things like that, and it's going to take centuries before they are all resolved.

Yeah, I hear you and you're 100% right; However, this thing about the EU/IE license is arguably quite a discrimination; I'd be interested in seeing their "risk statistics" about this...

Funny fact: my girlfriend is paying less than I am in insurance...and she holds a learner permit issued in January

keithclancy

H3llR4iser wrote: »

Yeah, I hear you and you're 100% right; However, this thing about the EU/IE license is arguably quite a discrimination; I'd be interested in seeing their "risk statistics" about this...

Funny fact: my girlfriend is paying less than I am in insurance...and she holds a learner permit issued in January

EU is pretty good when it comes to Government controlled stuff, but when its dealing with a private company you can forget it.

The EU Stance is "Shop around for a better deal"

kristian12

Yes Aviva do it, my partner had a UK licence and renewed it last year and got an Irish licence Aviva updated the details the policy was reduced by around 40?%. Wish we'd known that for the previous 10yrs, they'd have exchanged it sooner rather just waiting for the UK one to expire.

Pedro K

A number of companies load for EU licenses. Some won't accept them at all.

Axa load for an EU licence.
Aviva don't load, as far as I know, but don't apply their penalty point discount, which can be as high as 33%
There are a number of others at it as well.

68 lost souls

CiniO wrote: »

In most cases it is due to penalty points, as on EU licence insurer has no way to verify driving history and amount of penalty points.

I'm not sure but would hazard a guess also that getting a licence in some countries is very different to in Ireland and also that the test themselves differ and perhaps the companies think that certain EU licence holders have not passed a sufficient test?

As I said I'm just guessing as I don't know the ins and outs. Also many roads in the EU are better than Ireland and so the insurance companies feel like our winding potholed roads are more of a risk to foreign drivers as well as driving on the opposite side of the road. (I know driving on the opposite side of the road is not a big thing as I drove all around America last year on the wrong side of the road.)

It is very odd though, myself and my friends were insured in America for only about 300 last year. 4 Irish licence holders on a 5.2 litre V8. I would hate to think what 4 foreign licence holders would pay on that here.

CiniO

68 lost souls wrote: »

I'm not sure but would hazard a guess also that getting a licence in some countries is very different to in Ireland and also that the test themselves differ and perhaps the companies think that certain EU licence holders have not passed a sufficient test?

No offence, but if I had to choose one of EU countries where driver training and testing procedure is the least strict and there is the biggest amount of drivers who hold driving licence while don't know even the most basic rules of the road, it would be Ireland.

As I said I'm just guessing as I don't know the ins and outs. Also many roads in the EU are better than Ireland and so the insurance companies feel like our winding potholed roads are more of a risk to foreign drivers as well as driving on the opposite side of the road. (I know driving on the opposite side of the road is not a big thing as I drove all around America last year on the wrong side of the road.)

That's a valid argument.
Driving in West of Ireland on narrow windy roads might quite a challenge for foreign drivers.

keithclancy

CiniO wrote: »

Driving in West of Ireland on narrow windy roads might quite a challenge for foreign drivers.

Great fun though. :pac:

What ever about EU licences in general both axa and 123 don't appear to care about UK licences, I've been with both and never paid any extra over what I would have with a irish licence.

pred racer

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Some companies do, some no.

I had EU license and oh boy it was fun shoping. Now I got full irish license and they still ask if I got it in Ireland...

Where else could you possibly have gotten it

H3llR4iser

68 lost souls wrote: »

I'm not sure but would hazard a guess also that getting a licence in some countries is very different to in Ireland and also that the test themselves differ and perhaps the companies think that certain EU licence holders have not passed a sufficient test?

That would be the most naive of thinking on their part; I'm not sure if there is any country in the EU where acquiring a driving license is easier than Ireland. An Irish driver that got his license in 1999 never passed a theory test, while the test I passed the same year was arguably more complex than the one currently in use here:

- The test is made of 30 questions;
- Each question is followed by 4 statements;
- Each one of the statements could be true or false, independent on the others;
- Often the statements are purposely confusing, partial or ambiguous;
- Maximum number of mistakes to pass is 4, and each statement counts as a right/wrong answer, so you can theoretically make 4 mistakes in a single question if you got all the statements wrong;

For example:

In case of heavy rain:

- The road surface will offer more grip T F
- There is risk of aquaplaning T F
- The rear wheels are more likely to lock under braking T F
- The front wheels may skid easily T F

The correct sequence would be FTTT; Now something like FFTT would count as 1 mistake, FFFT as 2, TFFT as 3 and so on. On a theoretical level, a (very poor) applicant could have 120 mistakes in 30 questions

As I said I'm just guessing as I don't know the ins and outs. Also many roads in the EU are better than Ireland and so the insurance companies feel like our winding potholed roads are more of a risk to foreign drivers as well as driving on the opposite side of the road. (I know driving on the opposite side of the road is not a big thing as I drove all around America last year on the wrong side of the road.)

More or less. Potholes are everywhere and small, narrow, winding roads are not an exclusive of Ireland. You find a lot of these on the Alps (adding snow and ice in the mix), inland and especially on the Mediterranean coast, and often with much more (and crazier) traffic than the average Irish country road.

Welcome to Amalfi, for example:


On the other hand, motorways are a relatively recent introduction in Ireland whereas they've been the backbone of the continental road structure for decades, most Irish drivers are not used to the type of driving they command...

bmstuff

What are you complaining about, you came freely in this country, you have a job, you have a car, any insurance company will charge extra if you have no driving experience here. Even an irish guy with a german driving license will be charged extra if he cant justify local driving experience for the past year at least.

This has nothing to do with your citizenship.

I too got quoted extra before, about 130 for EU license and even for left hand drive car.
In my case, Axa did not care about me driving a lhd car here.
I paid extra at first because I had troubles retrieving my bonus letter, but I keep paying less and less year on year. About 500 now for a v8 petrol.

Shop around and save yourself some money. No need for drama.

keithclancy

bmstuff wrote: »

What are you complaining about, you came freely in this country, you have a job, you have a car, any insurance company will charge extra if you have no driving experience here. Even an irish guy with a german driving license will be charged extra if he cant justify local driving experience for the past year at least.

This has nothing to do with your citizenship.

I too got quoted extra before, about 130 for EU license and even for left hand drive car.
In my case, Axa did not care about me driving a lhd car here.
I paid extra at first because I had troubles retrieving my bonus letter, but I keep paying less and less year on year. About 500 now for a v8 petrol.

Shop around and save yourself some money. No need for drama.

The issue is that its not reciprocal.

E.G.
Someone comes to the Netherlands with an EU license and no experience everyone is treated the same, same as holding a dutch license.

Someone comes to Ireland with an EU License, it's all over the place with no clear reason why the Insurance loading is higher even though EU licenses valid anywhere in the EU.

I.E. A person with an Irish Issued (and sometimes UK Issued driving license) will pay less than someone with a Germany/Dutch/Italian/Polish license and so on.

And before you say its to do with driving on the other side of the road, I don't think changing a bit of plastic helps

H3llR4iser

bmstuff wrote: »

What are you complaining about, you came freely in this country, you have a job, you have a car, any insurance company will charge extra if you have no driving experience here. Even an irish guy with a german driving license will be charged extra if he cant justify local driving experience for the past year at least.

Wrong. The quote stays almost DOUBLE even with 5 years NCB. This has nothing to do with driving experience in the country.

This has nothing to do with your citizenship.

Correct, but it has to do with the country that issued the license and goes against the priciple of "free circulation of people and goods". Of course the same applies for the Irish citizen that gets his/her license, to say, in Spain and then comes back home.

I too got quoted extra before, about 130 for EU license and even for left hand drive car.
In my case, Axa did not care about me driving a lhd car here.
I paid extra at first because I had troubles retrieving my bonus letter, but I keep paying less and less year on year. About 500 now for a v8 petrol.

And that is a reasonable difference taking into account the fact that penalty points don't really apply to an EU license (or better, they do but it's quite complex). Paying double, on par with a learner permit holder, is a different story - especially considering that by simply exchanging the license with an Irish one, you'll end up paying the same as somebody with a native Irish license.

Shop around and save yourself some money. No need for drama.

I would, but I currently can't - I'm still within my first year with this policy. I am looking into switching cars, emailed 123.ie and they told me the switch would cost 40 Euro (no problem) and I should look up my new car's data and run a quote or call them. Did it and, purely by mistake, left the license type on "Full Irish". Was amazed by the halved price, checked details, noticed the mistake, put "Full EU 9+ years" back in and tada, 1200 Euro premium again.

galwaytt

..apologies if it's been stated above already, but can I point out that an 'Irish' licence IS and 'EU' licence. If there is a case of extra charges, they should be reported to the EU Commission on the subject.

I know that an 'Irish' licence in Germany carries no premium, for example.