What do Revenue consider a "bathroom" for LPT calculations

vicwatson

I mean, is a bathroom literally that - a room with a bath in it?

Or is it a room with a toilet and shower and sink?

or a room with just a toilet and a sink?

Significant difference in valuation on daft.ie if using 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 bathrooms, where infact one of them only actually has a bath in the room

Be interested to know if they define it and what is that definition

barneystinson

Revenue don't give a crap (ha!) what the definition of a bathroom is - all that matters is the market value of your house.

So I suppose your question is what is Daft's definition of a bathroom.

I can't really see how this distinction is going to have a seismic effect on the valuation to the extent of moving it several bands... so what I'm really getting at is... cop on and just put a reasonable figure on the form!!

vicwatson

barneystinson wrote: »

Revenue don't give a crap (ha!) what the definition of a bathroom is - all that matters is the market value of your house.

So I suppose your question is what is Daft's definition of a bathroom.

I can't really see how this distinction is going to have a seismic effect on the valuation to the extent of moving it several bands... so what I'm really getting at is... cop on and just put a reasonable figure on the form!!

Thanks for the sensible part of your reply and you don't have to be such a prat with the rest.

The point is you enter Daft's property register calculator and if you enter the criteria as 1 bathroom the house is valued at €153,387, enter 2 and it's €172,733.00, enter 3 and it's €185,688.00, enter 4 and beyond and it's €226,280.00

So IT IS a seismic shift IMO between €153k and €225k PLUS it puts it in a different valuation bracket for LPT purposes

So why do daft consider the bathroom amount important in the calculation of the tax?

Unregistered.

vicwatson wrote: »

So why do daft consider the bathroom amount important in the calculation of the tax?

Because people would mess up if they were asked floorspace of their homes.

DoesNotCompute

vicwatson wrote: »

I mean, is a bathroom literally that - a room with a bath in it?

Or is it a room with a toilet and shower and sink?

or a room with just a toilet and a sink?

Significant difference in valuation on daft.ie if using 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 bathrooms, where infact one of them only actually has a bath in the room

Be interested to know if they define it and what is that definition

Interesting question. I would say once a room has a toilet in it, it would be considered a bathroom. E.g. in my house, I have one ensuite (with a toilet and a shower unit in it), one downstairs toilet, and one upstairs bathroom (containing a toilet and a bath). By my definition, my home has 3 bathrooms. By yours, it only has one.

barneystinson

vicwatson wrote: »

Thanks for the sensible part of your reply and you don't have to be such a prat with the rest.

The point is you enter Daft's property register calculator and if you enter the criteria as 1 bathroom the house is valued at €153,387, enter 2 and it's €172,733.00, enter 3 and it's €185,688.00, enter 4 and beyond and it's €226,280.00

So IT IS a seismic shift IMO between €153k and €225k PLUS it puts it in a different valuation bracket for LPT purposes

So why do daft consider the bathroom amount important in the calculation of the tax?

A one band shift is hardly seismic, you've kinda proven my point with those figures. Revenue won't be interested in people who might have gone in a band too low. They'll be looking at people who are several bands too low - basic common sense tells you it would cost too much to be chasing people who might have paid €90 too little - that's what I meant by cop on.

vicwatson

barneystinson wrote: »

A one band shift is hardly seismic, you've kinda proven my point with those figures. Revenue won't be interested in people who might have gone in a band too low. They'll be looking at people who are several bands too low - basic common sense tells you it would cost too much to be chasing people who might have paid €90 too little - that's what I meant by cop on.

Oh that's fine so, the revenue won't care if one underdeclares by €45.00 for this year and €90.00 for the next 3 so..... everyone should do this then.

No, not a seismic shift per se but different bands nonetheless

vicwatson

DoesNotCompute wrote: »

Interesting question. I would say once a room has a toilet in it, it would be considered a bathroom. E.g. in my house, I have one ensuite (with a toilet and a shower unit in it), one downstairs toilet, and one upstairs bathroom (containing a toilet and a bath). By my definition, my home has 3 bathrooms. By yours, it only has one.

Not my definition

Trying to find the Revenue definition !

Scottie99

Definition does include a shower


Bathroom

"A room containing a bathtub or a shower and usually also a washbasin and a toilet."

vicwatson

Scottie99 wrote: »

Definition does include a shower


Bathroom

"A room containing a bathtub or a shower and usually also a washbasin and a toilet."

Source please?

Scortho

I wouldn't count a downstairs toilet and washbasin as a bathroom. That's just a downstairs toilet.
I would however put ensuites in the same category as a bathroom however.
That said a house with a downstairs toilet will be worth more than a house without a downstairs toilet.

Op best thing to do is go onto the register and find similar houses to yours in your area and see what they're selling for. Get the average price per square foot and then multiply that by your square foot.

The chances of house with 2 bathrooms being worth 50k more than the house next door with one bathroom will be slim. Unless its in d4 but even at that it'd want to be tiled with gold!

Definition of a jacks:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/_/dict.aspx?word=bathroom

barneystinson

vicwatson wrote: »

Oh that's fine so, the revenue won't care if one underdeclares by €45.00 for this year and €90.00 for the next 3 so..... everyone should do this then.

If that happens the yield would come in substantially below expectations and they will increase the tax rate accordingly. That makes much more sense and would be much cheaper than writing hundreds of thousands of letters and issuing hundreds of thousands of assessments. Once again, common sense, basic economics(google the 80/20 rule, or the law of diminishing returns).

Revenue have repeatedly stated that once people place an honest valuation on their property, using some kind of reasonable basis, they won't challenge their valuations.

They have also said that once the initial compliance drive (i.e. getting people to actually file a return at all and pay something) their focus will be on OUTLIERS - which is basically the figures that stick out like a sore thumb as being way below average for an area. That, by definition will not be people who valued their house at 190k rather than 210k, because of an interpretation of the meaning of the word bathroom on the Daft.ie website...

This whole LPT thing has been a real eye-opener over the last few months - normally sensible and rational people seem to have completely lost their ability to think straight - it's bizarre.

barneystinson

vicwatson wrote: »

Not my definition

Trying to find the Revenue definition !

OK, I'm going to try to square this weird circle for you one last time:

There is no "Revenue definition" of a bathroom for LPT purposes. Because Revenue don't care about bathrooms - they simply want you to put a value on your property, end of.

Daft.ie have a tool which features number of bathrooms as a factor in determining property value. Presumably this is based on how many bathrooms the person advertising a house says there is in the ad that they put up on Daft. So clearly Daft don't have a definition of a bathroom either - it's entirely up to the individuals placing ads on Daft to decide for themselves what they count as a bathroom or not. Since these are all people trying to sell a house, I'd say it's a fairly safe bet that anything that will allow you to do your business and/or wash yourself in, will be counted as a bathroom. Common sense.

Orion

barneystinson wrote: »

Revenue have repeatedly stated that once people place an honest valuation on their property, using some kind of reasonable basis, they won't challenge their valuations.

That's okay then. Based on the economic principle that value is what someone is willing to pay for something I can put an honest valuation of zero on my house. There have been properties for sale in my estate for a while with not even viewings never mind offers so that'swhat the house value is.

Victor

People are looking to see how usable the property is for peak-time usage - for bathing/showering, using the toilet and general washing/grooming.

A toilet and a washbasin does not make a bathroom.

A toilet, a washbasin and a shower does not make a bathroom, but it does make something that is perfectly comparable to a bathroom

Two rooms, each with a toilet and a washbasin does not make two bathrooms, but it does provide something that is perfectly comparable to a bathroom.

vicwatson wrote: »

The point is you enter Daft's property register calculator and if you enter the criteria as 1 bathroom the house is valued at €153,387, enter 2 and it's €172,733.00, enter 3 and it's €185,688.00, enter 4 and beyond and it's €226,280.00

So IT IS a seismic shift IMO between €153k and €225k PLUS it puts it in a different valuation bracket for LPT purposes

One assume that you can decide between 1 and 4, whatever about 2 and 3. I can't see many one-bed apartments with 4 bathrooms or vice-versa.

vicwatson wrote: »

Source please?

Lots of the internet: https://www.google.ie/search?q=%22A+room+containing+a+bathtub+or+a+shower+and+usually+also+a+washbasin+and+a+toilet.%22+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a

barneystinson

Orion wrote: »

That's okay then. Based on the economic principle that value is what someone is willing to pay for something I can put an honest valuation of zero on my house. There have been properties for sale in my estate for a while with not even viewings never mind offers so that'swhat the house value is.

And no properties in your estate have been sold in recent years?

A reasonable basis would be to take the most recent sales price of a couple of comparable houses in your estate, and apply a reduction factor in line with the fall in the market since that time.

Bearing in mind your valuation of zero is the value for LPT up until at least 2016, you'll have to bank on no-one selling a comparable house for more than zero between now and then.

Anyway, you don't value your house at zero - you value it at less than 100k.

Scortho

Orion wrote: »

That's okay then. Based on the economic principle that value is what someone is willing to pay for something I can put an honest valuation of zero on my house. There have been properties for sale in my estate for a while with not even viewings never mind offers so that'swhat the house value is.

Ill give you an offer of 10 quid for your house.
Considering that its worth nothing your getting a great deal!

Valetta

barneystinson wrote: »

There is no "Revenue definition" of a bathroom for LPT purposes. Because Revenue don't care about bathrooms - they simply want you to put a value on your property, end of.

.

This should be quoted on every thread of every forum to do with the LPT.

I would add that the tax is a "Self-assessed" tax. Not revenue assessed; not Daft.ie assessed; not moneyguide ireland assessed but "Self-assessed"