Missing Death record

montgo

I have been unable to track down when my ancestor died. I have checked the Cancelled Valuation Books. There was a name change in 1871 and Mary took over the farm (husband died in 1869). The next change of name was in 1888 when her son was recorded. He had married in 1883.

So can one make an assumption that she died at the earliest 1885? She is not listed on the 1901 Census.

Why would the death not be registered since her husband's earlier death was registered?

Ponster

If you give us some names I'm sure that someone here can help you.

shanew

or Mary remarried and so her death is under a different surname ?

montgo

Thanks, guys. Her name was Mary Blackburn nee Purcell. She was probably born between 1810 & 1813, married 1835, lived in Clonbeg, Tipperary. Husband John died 1869. I have all the details of their family.

P. Breathnach

Why do you suppose that she did not die before 1885? She might have died earlier than that, but the transfer was not executed until much later. Or she might have been living in 1888 and handed over the property to her son for his benefit and that of his family - and become the old lady sitting in the corner of the kitchen.

All you know is that she was alive in 1871 and seems not to have survived to 1901.

shanew

Do you have a death cert for John, to confirm Mary was still alive at that stage
?

If so should state his status as s married, and Mary possibly could have been the informant

p.s. agree with what PB said above - transfer may not have meant she died, and could take quite a time after the death

montgo

shanew wrote: »

Do you have a death cert for John, to confirm Mary was still alive at that stage
?

If so should state his status as s married, and Mary possibly could have been the informant

p.s. agree with what PB said above - transfer could take quite a time after the death.

Yes, the death cert states that John was married. His son was the informant.

shanew

Blackburn not a common surname, so wouldn't think too many records to check through..

Can you confirm the location - I'm not seeing a townland named Clonbeg in Tipperary ?

(helps to narrow down the correct registration district)

shanew

maybe this one ?

ID: 34446
Townland: Clon Beg
Acres : 101
Civil Parish : Inch
Barony : Eliogarty
Poor Law Union : Thurles
County : Tipperary, N.R.

montgo

Parish of Clonbeg, but church in Galbally, Co. Limerick.

All the death certs that I have show
Registrar's District - Bansha. Superintendent Registrar's District - Tipperary.

Thanks,

shanew

looks like John may have died in Tipperary (town) district - age 65, so a bit to the south west of that Clonbeg...

There's Mary Blackburn death in the same district in 1892 on the Index. Estimated year of birth 1825 - ages can be inaccurate, particularly on death certs...

shanew

if none of those deaths on the Index prove correct, then there are a few marriages that might be worth checking out (although maybe unlikely if the estimate for year of birth is correct). None in Tipperary district (which covers Clonbeg civil parish and the Co. Tipperary section of Galbally/Aherlow RC parish), but a few in Mitchelstown district, which is not that far to the south west.

These are in 1871, 1873 and 1877.

Did all of John and Mary's children say in the area where John died, or could any have moved away (e.g. to Mitchlestown) ?

For 2nd marriages the Index sometimes records both the true maiden surname and 1st married surnames of the bride, which could help figure out if one of these might be 'your' Mary, without having to buy certs.

p.s. the 1892 death is the only one that's even a close match by location, age etc - so definitely worth eliminating. The others that show up are quite far from south west Tipperary (South Co. Dublin, Monaghan, Derry & Tyrone) - so unless there was some relation etc in one of these areas, none seem very likely...

montgo

shanew wrote: »

if none of those deaths on the Index prove correct, then there are a few marriages that might be worth checking out. None in Tipperary district (which covers Clonbeg civil parish and the Co. Tipperary section of Galbally/Aherlow RC parish), but a few in Mitchelstown district, which is not that far to the south west.

These are in 1871, 1873 and 1877...

One of these is a daughter, the other one a 1st cousin & the 3rd (unsure how she is related at present) was 22years of age at time of marriage.

shanew wrote: »

Did all of John and Mary's children say in the area where John died, or could any have moved away (e.g. to Mitchlestown)...

All of Galbally marriages come under Registrar's District of Galbally in the Union of Mitchelstown. One of the sons did live outside Mitchelstown but no death record there either. The others all lived either in Tipp or Limerick.

shanew wrote: »

For 2nd marriages the Index sometimes records both the true maiden surname and 1st married surnames of the bride, which could help figure out if one of these might be 'your' Mary, without having to buy certs....

I will search marriage records using her maiden name.

I reckon if you can't find it, then probably the record is just not there!!

shanew wrote: »

p.s. the 1892 death is the only one that's even a close match by location, age etc - so definitely worth eliminating. The others that show up are quite far from south west Tipperary (South Co. Dublin, Monaghan, Derry & Tyrone) - so unless there was some relation etc in one of these areas, none seem very likely...

The 1892 death is another Mary (I have her baptism record in Galbally in 1825) so I am pretty sure that it is not my Mary.

Thank you for your all your time & effort.

shanew

Might be worth keeping a note of those other death on the Index, in case a connection to any of the areas turn up in later research. Any of my difficult deaths have eventually turned up, either strange spelling, in an unexpected district (sometimes opposite side of the county living with a son, or daughter etc), or with an inaccurate age.

One of my gtgtgt-grandfather's age at death was out by 10 years.

montgo

shanew wrote: »

Might be worth keeping a note of those other death on the Index, in case a connection to any of the areas turn up in later research. Any of my difficult deaths have eventually turned up, either strange spelling, in an unexpected district (sometimes opposite side of the county living with a son, or daughter etc), or with an inaccurate age..

That is good news! Hopefully her death record will eventually show up!! I had ruled out the possibility that she had travelled out of the country as none of her children had immigrated. All her children were alive and living locally for 1901 Census. I suppose she could have visited grandsons (priests) in the USA but unlikely. Maybe she died in a hospital in Dublin.

Thanks again for your advice/assistance.

PS. There is other death record which looked interesting for a while, a Mary who died in Kilmallock, co. Limerick but that wasn't her either.

shanew

a couple of other possible lines of research ..

might be worth following up other deaths in the family, and check for newspaper death notices. This can mention the cemetery.. If there was a family plot and a headstone, maybe Mary is detailed ..

Another option - local registers. The GRO records and index are the centralized records, so based on quarterly returns from the various registration districts (i.e. Tipperary (town) in this case). These districts had their own records which they copied and sent to the GRO. Some areas allow research of these - might be worth looking into, although a rough date would probably be required.. as the indexing is different.

montgo

Regarding headstones - there is one old headstone (difficult to decipher) but it has just the inscription of Mary's husband who died 1869, John. Another old headstone include one for Mary Blackburn nee Wise who died 1782 erected by son John. But I will do a thorough search again to make sure that I am not missing anything.

Thanks for the tip regarding checking the local registers. Next time that I am in Tipp, I will try to find out where the registers are for Galbally, maybe Tipp but could be Newcastle West, Limerick

shanew

dont think Newcastle west would be correct... west Co. Limerick

Adjacent districts to Tipperary are Nenagh, Limerick (city), Kilmallock, Mitchlestown, Clogheen, Cashel & Thurles.

shanew

most of of the townlands in Galbally civil parish, including the town of Galbally, were covered by Mitchelstown registration district.

pedroeibar1

I have a family 'strand' in the Glen - the focus of the people there seems to have been Tipp Town rather than Mitchelstown, judging by the registrations I have come across.

I know it is South Dublin, but have you considered :

Name Mary Anne Blackburn
Event Type Death
Event Date 1874
Event Place Rathdown, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year1874
Registration DistrictRathdown
Age 64
Birth Year (Estimated)1810
Volume Number2
Page Number781

The Tipperary Heritage Centre, (The Bridewell, St. Michael Street, Tipperary) might be worth a contact; I used them once, long before the wide availability of records on the www and found them very helpful.

montgo

shanew wrote: »

most of of the townlands in Galbally civil parish, including the town of Galbally, were covered by Mitchelstown registration district.

Mitchelstown was the registration district for Births & Marriages on all certs that I have. I forgot that I was told that the Limerick (county) BMD records are/were held in St. Itas Hospital in Newcastle West some years ago. It is possible that all the Limerick records are held in St. Camillus' Hospital now.

montgo

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

I have a family 'strand' in the Glen - the focus of the people there seems to have been Tipp Town rather than Mitchelstown, judging by the registrations I have come across.


The Tipperary Heritage Centre, (The Bridewell, St. Michael Street, Tipperary) might be worth a contact; I used them once, long before the wide availability of records on the www and found them very helpful.

Maybe, if the baptisms/marriages took place in Lisvernane Church or Clonbeg Church (CoI), then they would be registered in Tipperary District.

Thanks, yes, that death record is certainly a possibility but I can't think of any reason that she would be in Rathdown district - hospital, maybe.

I believe Limerick Genealogy centre holds all the Galbally records but maybe Tipp Heritage Centre has them as well. I will call in next time I visit.

shanew

Just for reference Rathdown registration district also covers a large section of North Co. Wicklow - so towns of Bray, Greystones & Enniskerry.


p.s. sorry - misunderstood your Newcastle West reference, thought you meant the district registered, rather than where the records may currently be held

shanew

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

....
.....
Name Mary Anne Blackburn
Event Type Death
Event Date 1874
Event Place Rathdown, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year1874
Registration DistrictRathdown
....

That record is showing up on the Index at RootsIreland as Mary Anne Blackeburn. The 'parish' listed is Dean's Grange RC - but unclear from their source the exact nature of this.

As far as I know there's never been an RC parish named Dean's Grange - the area would have been part of Kingstown/Dún Laoghaire or Cabinteely (depending on exact dates) - and I dont see death/burials listed for either.

Wonder if maybe the details relate to Dean's Grange cemetery ?
This is not associated with a church, and it opened in the early 1860s.