Is it fair to 2:1 grade only based on final year bachelor degree

zindu

is is fair to classify bachelor degree 4 years based only on last year? i believe it is ruthless system.

i mean it is not master degree so the grade will be base on that year, why 3 years totally ignored, this is no sense rule and we should speack about it and stand for our rights.

i have got business degree in ITB. oh man worse college ever, only about 30% of the lecturer were know what they teaching, all the rest was pure luck trust me, just stay away from it.

any way the first 3 years my gpa are well above 3 but the final year my gpa average is 2:71 that is the average of the final year year four.

this year was assignments year, oh too many and to frequently, just traditional thing! and whoever been in this situation you know some group are compulsory so you do not have to choose the members of the group.

some members of the group will not do their parts even they did not show up for presentation, and guess what! does not matter how well you do your parts of presentation but you still get same mark as the one did not do their parts and or did not show up!! what rule is that!! i complaint about it at the time with my lecturer and i raised the case, but who cares!!! ITB is a disaster.

if you are watching apprentice, who ever get most error and leads the team to failure that person get fired not whole the team, even i told them that, but still you are talking to the hand, and they are always right and we are student always stupid and wrong.

now everywhere i look for job they demanding for 2:1 and because of teachers fault to grade me as other's team member and because of the faulty system that only account final year as the final grade i am now lost 4 years in that building called ITB.

i appreciate any advice to help my case, i am sure a lot people will have similar situation to mine, who ever put it up this system it is wrong and if i have the power i will changed by the law.


Regards,
Zindu

knotknowbody

If group members are not pulling their weight you need to notify the Lecturer
early in the project, no point just showing up for the presentation at the end one person short and hope for best, the Lecturer not knowing there were issues from the start is the problem.

I found this out the hard way but in first year, we showed up for a presentation one short and got marked zero for the entire project, we complained - the usual it's not fair we suffer because he didn't show up, your being a bit tough etc. The Lecturers response was life is tough deal with it.

Whoa what a life lesson that was, I never made that mistake again, your responsible for you and therefore your projects, if someone isn't pulling their weight you need to tell the lecturer and get them off your team. In those situations you need to be proactive not reactive.

I'm going to assume the degree is like most degree's from the I.T's and that it is an add on course at the end of an ordinary degree to get an honours degree. In that case yes it's fair the first three years don't count towards your degree, those years were spent on a different course, the degree is a 1 year add on to the other course, why would they count.

I didn't do my degree at ITB but did do a M.Sc there and found the staff exceptionally knowledgeable and helpful in the extreme, maybe they treat undergraduates differently but having got to know a few of them over the year I wouldn't think they do as they a genuinely decent, nice people.

zindu

Thanks knotknowbody,


i did notify lecturer and even course coordinator, more than one occasions, but they say we will see and tell them to come for the meeting and participate in the project! i told them i am a student same level when they come i tell tem but they never listen to me, they are same my level and then they do not show up until last minutes without any preparation or knowledges.

I told lecturer i will not be held responsible for their actions, i should be marked based on my parts of the presentation,even i suggested to the lecturer instead she tell them them herself, because she has more power and she has even contact number for students, but it is like you are talking to the hand.

even after the presentation i told her to mark me for my presentation, she gave us a note to assess each group member anonymously , i marked them 2/10 but when i saw the result i was furious, i went to her office and i told her again but she has no answer for me, then i course coordinator, he said you have to wait to the end of year result then you can appeal the case, i was blocked every where..



i can name many lecturer here were have no knowledge at all, no flexibility, hust got the job because of luck, i even told many my lecturer and course coordinator than, and i will tell them again face to face without hesitations and with proof, just because they are lecturer it does not mean they are knowledgeable.

in some colleges in uk the weights based on last 3 years and in some others each year weighted differently, and never totally ignored the final year, and in my case i did not progressing from ordinary degree to bachelor, i was in the bachelor course from the first year.

even though if the final grade should be based on final year, the lecturer should be flexible and fair towards marking and circumstances, the final year i lost marks because of multiple assignment one right after another, and that was group's fault because when i done the project by myself i was doing well in first and second year, and if it is fair to be based on final year why they waist our 3 years, they just have to offer students with FETAC and leaving cert straight to fourth year!! i mean how could you ignore maths, base of accounts, MS etc from previous years which are staying with you and useful while traditional assignment one right after another is just a copy paste and totally wasting time , one assignment in one subject is sufficient for a year not bombardment of traditional assignment.

i can do master degree in ITB like you, my point is sufficient for this, but i will never ever go near ITB, unless some member's of ITB president read my complaint and wants to challenge me and interview me, i will tell them face to face whatever i stated in my comment, and i told them when i was studying, i am fighting for my rights but what can i do if there is no law or rule to support student.

zindu

Hi all,

i have got this answer from ITB as i send them an email telling them about my complaint, so that is their response:

"it is Quality and Qualifications Ireland QQI (formerly HETAC) who determine the grading policy and this is implemented across all Institutes of Technology."

now i still think the system is wrong, even if it is right! lecturer should be flexible and mark student as their parts and level of participation in the group, not mark whole group equally, or punish them equally, they should watch apprentice to learn from it, because only 1 person or two will be fired not whole group, i think students should stand for their rights and the system should be changed, it is all in the student's hands.


any way my solution now are:

1. move on and apply for the job that ordinary degree are sufficient as the last year is useless to me now.
2. study master, but that is no option because once employer ask for 2:1 that is it a master will not hide 2:2 grade unless they are flexible.
3. doing another bachelor in totally different area in professional university and never go near Institutions as their based marks are the same, i love DCU myself.

that is all thanks for all readers and participator in this thread.

kind regards,
Zindu

brendanL

Sounds like two issues here... one is group work.. I was a student once let me talk about that first:
Working in a team is part of life, sounds like you've had some bad experience's but not totally unreasonable responses from lecturers.

When a team goes sour ( ie. one team member or more is not participating ) It's the students job to step up, make a list of everything they think is needed for the teams assignment to be a success and just get those things done. Recording who does each task is essential, if the list reads your name or or all the people on your team bar one or two, the lecturer can draw a line very easily against them. This covers your back, and gives people who try to get a free ride off you what they deserve.

At the same time, and trust me this is the part that sucks, you are responsible for your work, it's not enough to present something and say this parts not done because such and such didn't do it. If someone did that in the workplace, both the person who did some work and the slacker would be fired, or be looked on as extremely immature. If in a group project a piece of work isn't going to be done, a good group will discuss the issue of a non worker not delivering and re-assign the task in the group and record whose going to take care of it now. I'm not saying completely rule someone out but if they fail to attend regular group meetups and miss agreed deadlines for chunks of work then the group needs to own the problems this person has failed to work on, and this is recorded in literally a notepad file... literally a date and names each time ( a 2 minute job), they have no leg to stand on, once again just protecting yourself.
So yeah, when in a group you need to own the problems you all face as a group, not hope a lecturer will step in.

College is college, it's not school, I have every respect for ITB lecturers, you cannot expect them to act like a primary school teacher and run around like mammy fixing your issues, it is not their job. Generally a sound lecturer will at their own discretion talk and try to help you, but really, if there is problems in a group like a member not doing work, that is a real life problem that the student needs to handle, if they need it they can get advice from a lecturer or the college, expecting the head of a department to swoop in and magically fix everything is unrealistic. College is about getting ready for a job in your chosen profession, as such you need to be responsible. By all means inform lecturers what's going on in your group, but don't expect them to fix it by waving a magic wand.

So yeah, end result for group work is regardless of if you get one member not doing work, you need to behave like an adult and handle it. It's tough, but life's tougher. This is not an exclusive to itb issue, every IT university student faces this problem at least once.

Second point, the degree being based on final year
Your final year is built upon all the skills and knowledge you've supposedly gained in the last few years, I don't think it's unfair to test you retrospectively based on that and expect you to perform to a certain level for that one year based on the wealth of experience you should have with doing college work already.

Lastly, for getting a job,
Go to jobs fairs, ones in the RDS and such, talk, meet and greet all the people, all of them. Apply to all the options, even the ones asking for a 2:1, maybe they call you for an interview anyway and they really like you in person / your personality. Get in touch with your class mates, find out where they're working, ask if the place is still looking for more people it's not unusual for a company to ask their recent hires if they know anyone else looking for a job at the moment (known as the purple squirrel in HR terms) , word of mouth is a powerful thing still

Also, conducting an interview is hard, that drop in GPA is an easy thing to spot and ask a question about purely because it's something to talk about, I really hope your not telling them the rant above because if I'm honest and I don't know you at all, so that explanation of the issue is all I have to base this on, but to me it translates as "this person has poor time management/can't work in a group"

So when they inevitably ask about it, turn that frown upside down, and say "oh well we had a lot of group work, certain group projects where more of a challenge then others due to members not working on their tasks, dealing with it was difficult, but we overcame it, and I feel like a really learned a lot from working in a team each time I did"
that translates as, college was hard, everyone knows that, and not just that, you seem sound because as a person you know about how to work in a group now, because you've dealt with some **** in them already

If they ask you to elaborate on how you overcame the issues tread carefully, "we got advice from college lecturers and other students ahead of us and moved on from there"

Saying something like "moved on from there" is a dead pan sentence, no ones going to ask more on that one, and they'll move on to stuff you'll want to talk about.

Best of luck!

zindu

thanks ver much brendanL good advice there, but i disagree with you in relation the group is solely my responsibility, because i told the lecturer to do my assignment a lone, and explained my situation, but she refuse, for instance if you are not coming to group meeting or not do your part! you are an adult do you want me to fight with you until you do you task?

the mark is there to grade each students based on their efforts, not be punished for other's fault, i am not saying i am perfect but why i did better by my own rather than a group!

the lecturer's fault is lack of flexibility and working by strick "bible rue", so personally i do not like anyone who is lack of flexibility, do not use their initiatives and common sense in any situations and that was what happen there, one lecturer let me to do the project by my self, i mean why the others did not? who is wrong here! and who is right?

also i said about 30% of lecturer in ITB are professional and realy great lecturer with all means, the rest are got the job with pure luck, it is not nice for me to say their name, but i tell you examples;

1: we had a lecturer still there even she did not know the subject, she always talk about herself first 20 minutes, oh! what car she driving! what she does! what her children does! what phone she has!....

2. another one really boring she just reads what ever on the power point notice, and she ask questions like we are in school, for instance are we in good economy or bad? who the hell do not know the answer for that question!

i am not being tough on lecturers but i explain the bad experiences ruined my future but i move on and let this thread alive so others if they read they be aware and judge for themselves.

who made this rule it should final grade be based on the final year? just a person like me or you or anybody else, so it is easy to rectify it, if the rule state that the final grade should be based on the average outcomes of the four years, what are you going to say! i am sure you and who ever defend the existence rule still defending it and think that is fair and that is how should be graded! i like people to be creative and critical, not just follower.

the only part you did good was your advice about work and thanks for that.

Drodan

I've had my fair share of terrible experiences with lecturers in ITB, but when it came to group projects we had to do out a table saying which member did what and in the presentations we were all marked on what we presented and not just given one mark for the three or four people.

There are some useless lecturers in the place, truly useless, but thankfully for myself anyway we now have really good, knowledgeable and sound lecturers who really try to help. Still have a couple dodgy ones of course though.

vinnyirl

zindu wrote: »

is is fair to classify bachelor degree 4 years based only on last year? i believe it is ruthless system.

Short answer....YES

The first 3 year are not ignored, if you think you would be able to understand and pass the modules presented to you in your final year without doing the first 3 years then you are so intelligent that this shouldn't have happened to you. The point in the first 3 years is to prep you for the final year. Most people are used to this system from secondary school, your grades for previous years don't count in the leaving cert.

If it was an average of the 4 years you could have got straight A's in the first 3 year and did terrible in the final year the mark on your degree would not accurately reflect your ability as it is then based on easier modules.

You asked for advice so here it is, but you wont like it. If all you want is a business degree with the higher result then you need to take the course again. You can talk to the admissions office in ITB and see if you can retake 4th year (probably not) or you can contact the Open University and do a business degree using the modules you have completed as credits to skip most of the modules. Either way you will need to go back to college.

Well one other option would be to find and complete certificates that are related to what you want to work at rather than the broad knowledge base that college gives you.