Arrest to summons- length of time?

maiden

Hi guys,

If you were arrested in July last year for theft of a car, no insurance etc but still havent heard anything back from the guards. ie court date, when would you expect to hear about it? Do they have 12 months to summons you?

Prodigious

I hope you get summonsed.

maiden

Prodigious wrote: »

I hope you get summonsed.

Why would I get summons?? Im a 40 year old mother who has never broken the law!

Oh and thank you for your exceptional advice, Im not sure what I would have done without it

BaronVon

maiden wrote: »

Hi guys,

If you were arrested in July last year for theft of a car, no insurance etc but still havent heard anything back from the guards. ie court date, when would you expect to hear about it? Do they have 12 months to summons you?

Theft is indictable, so technically there is no time limit on it.

Realistically, for something that's going to be dealt with in the district court, there's a six month time limit, which can be stretched to 12 months, for various reasons.

maiden

infacteh wrote: »

Theft is indictable, so technically there is no time limit on it.

Realistically, for something that's going to be dealt with in the district court, there's a six month time limit, which can be stretched to 12 months, for various reasons.

Thank you, that was exactly the information I was looking for! The person in question was a minor at the time, does that make any difference??

BaronVon

If it's a first offence, they might be eligible for a JLO, ie a juvenile diversion programme, where you would just receive a caution.

That decision is made by a national office, and a file would have to be prepared and sent to them, which would probably explain the delay in any prosecution being initiated thus far.

valleyoftheunos

maiden wrote: »

Thank you, that was exactly the information I was looking for! The person in question was a minor at the time, does that make any difference??

If this hypothetical person was a minor at the time it would mean that the case would be dealt with in the Children's court, should they be convicted the penalties would be different and there could be certain obligations placed on the minor's parents or Guardians.

maiden

Ok just to follow up, a year and a week after arrest and still no summons

Pro Hoc Vice

maiden wrote: »

Ok just to follow up, a year and a week after arrest and still no summons

If the matter is related to a Summary offence it must be in most circumstances the summons must be requested within 6 months, it can be produced and served after six months There is no rule as to when it is served. But there is case law on delay in minor cases that say a delay of over 2 years 4 months issue too long.

maiden

Is there a defence case here of justice delayed is justice denied, it seems very long to be waiting

Fred Swanson

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Fred Swanson

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Cody Pomeray

Yes there have, the seminal case was State (O'Connell) v. Fawsitt [1986]

However there is no fixed scale in terms of how much time may elapse before a threshold is reached. A court has to take account of the circumstances of the case, e.g. it would need to be quite tolerant of a case involving complex matters of corporate law and fraud, such as we see surrounding the IBRC and the former directors of the then Anglo Irish Bank.

On the other hand, the courts tend be justifiably concerned about prosecutorial delay in cases involving child sexual abuse.

The case being referred to obviously doesn't satisfy very much of a test on complexity or prejudice, by the sound of it. But there may be other circumstances that one would have to take into account, justifying the delay.

maiden

Here is the broader facts of the case, my son and his friends took my car without permission, all minors no license no insurance etc, they hit another car, no injuries on both sides thank god.

The two friends were cautioned approx 2 weeks after incident, my son made a statement admitting to everything and i made i statement saying he stole my car but no summons for my son after the year that's why I'm so concerned, it's hanging over me all the time

Plus I made a claim on my insurance, which they honoured and a bought another car, but now the insurance company are going after my son to recoup the money which is fair enough, but since he was a minor they are suing me for the money, they gave me 14 days to pay which I didn't so they said they would take court proceedings
It just seems never ending for me

Pro Hoc Vice

maiden wrote: »

Here is the broader facts of the case, my son and his friends took my car without permission, all minors no license no insurance etc, they hit another car, no injuries on both sides thank god.

The two friends were cautioned approx 2 weeks after incident, my son made a statement admitting to everything and i made i statement saying he stole my car but no summons for my son after the year that's why I'm so concerned, it's hanging over me all the time

Plus I made a claim on my insurance, which they honoured and a bought another car, but now the insurance company are going after my son to recoup the money which is fair enough, but since he was a minor they are suing me for the money, they gave me 14 days to pay which I didn't so they said they would take court proceedings
It just seems never ending for me

Take the letter from the insurance company to a solicitor and seek advice.

maiden

infosys wrote: »

Take the letter from the insurance company to a solicitor and seek advice.

I did and he said I really need to wait for the official docs to appear in court etc, I just can't afford to pay back the money, I needed to buy a car

Fred Swanson

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michael999999

Sell the car.

Pay back the insurance company.

Buy a smaller car.

Give your son a kick up the arse!

maiden

Fred Swanson wrote: »

As this is civil they have 6 years to bring proceedings.

I can't see myself having that kind of money in Six years either!

maiden

michael999999 wrote: »

Sell the car.

Pay back the insurance company.

Buy a smaller car.

Give your son a kick up the arse!

My car that was crashed was a 07, I bought a 04, don't even start me on my son!

I just feel they gave me the money and want it back now, and that I am the victim and they are penalising me

michael999999

maiden wrote: »

My car that was crashed was a 07, I bought a 04, don't even start me on my son!

I just feel they gave me the money and want it back now, and that I am the victim and they are penalising me

What age is your son, can he get a job to pay back the money?

Fred Swanson

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maiden

He is 18, I would still prefer if they went after him, he is responsible, I have never been in court and don't want to be either

michael999999

maiden wrote: »

He is 18, I would still prefer if they went after him, he is responsible, I have never been in court and don't want to be either

Tell him get a job or you'll probably have to sue him for the money!

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

maiden

Im not sure if anyone is interested but said I would Follow up, summons arrived on the 10th of september, 14 months after incident,it was issued on the 27th of may, not sure why it took 4 months to drive a few mins up the road to serve it, court in 2 weeks time.

Fred Swanson

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maiden

the 27th of may

Pro Hoc Vice

maiden wrote: »

the 27th of may

If the offence is summary only they are out of time your son needs legal advice.

mrjoneill

infosys wrote: »

If the matter is related to a Summary offence it must be in most circumstances the summons must be requested within 6 months, it can be produced and served after six months There is no rule as to when it is served. But there is case law on delay in minor cases that say a delay of over 2 years 4 months issue too long.

It’s usually within 6 mts of the detection of the summary offence but there are longer periods for some RTA involving car insurance and for the Dep of Agric related offences. But for the 6 mts offence it can be re-dated before the expiry of the 6 mts to keep it alive. I have seen a case where one having a 6mts time limit was kept alive for over 2 yrs because they could not locate the defendant. But generally for the 6mts period ones they are kept alive by the Garda going back to the courts and having it re-dated before the expiry of the 6 mts. I understand the courts take a dim view of such a procedure if the one charged is not deliberately avoiding the process and usually strikes it out as on the justice delayed justice denied rule.

mrjoneill

maiden wrote: »

Here is the broader facts of the case, my son and his friends took my car without permission, all minors no license no insurance etc, they hit another car, no injuries on both sides thank god.

The two friends were cautioned approx 2 weeks after incident, my son made a statement admitting to everything and i made i statement saying he stole my car but no summons for my son after the year that's why I'm so concerned, it's hanging over me all the time

Plus I made a claim on my insurance, which they honoured and a bought another car, but now the insurance company are going after my son to recoup the money which is fair enough, but since he was a minor they are suing me for the money, they gave me 14 days to pay which I didn't so they said they would take court proceedings
It just seems never ending for me

Can’t understand why they are suing you over the deeds of your son and as for him being a minor having a bearing on it. I always assumed that it was the parent or guardian that could sue another party where a minor suffered loss, not the reverse.

Pro Hoc Vice

mrjoneill wrote: »

It’s usually within 6 mts of the detection of the summary offence but there are longer periods for some RTA involving car insurance and for the Dep of Agric related offences. But for the 6 mts offence it can be re-dated before the expiry of the 6 mts to keep it alive. I have seen a case where one having a 6mts time limit was kept alive for over 2 yrs because they could not locate the defendant. But generally for the 6mts period ones they are kept alive by the Garda going back to the courts and having it re-dated before the expiry of the 6 mts. I understand the courts take a dim view of such a procedure if the one charged is not deliberately avoiding the process and usually strikes it out as on the justice delayed justice denied rule.

Yes you are right but in the above case the incident was July last year and complaint was made May this year. So without knowing the exact charge, the OP would be best advised to get legal advice in relation to the charges and the application for the summons.

As a general rule summary offences are covered by Petty Sessions Ireland Act, but as you point out some offences are excluded from that act having limitation periods of upto 2 years.

mrjoneill

infosys wrote: »

Yes you are right but in the above case the incident was July last year and complaint was made May this year. So without knowing the exact charge, the OP would be best advised to get legal advice in relation to the charges and the application for the summons.

As a general rule summary offences are covered by Petty Sessions Ireland Act, but as you point out some offences are excluded from that act having limitation periods of upto 2 years.

Or checking the summons to see if it was up dated. From what I understand this is a District Court date stamp that are stamped in the summons.
Dept of Agric have a 3 yrs period, Revenue and Customs have a 10yr period.

Pro Hoc Vice

mrjoneill wrote: »

Or checking the summons to see if it was up dated. From what I understand this is a District Court date stamp that are stamped in the summons.
Dept of Agric have a 3 yrs period, Revenue and Customs have a 10yr period.

I have never seen an exclusion of the PSI act that gave more than 2 years can you link to the limitation periods of 10 years. I would be interested.

maiden

No it definitely wasnt redated, I dont have the summons with me at the moment as I have given it my son's solicitor. There is one charge on it which I find a bit odd, it is for the theft of a vehicle, no reference to lack of insurance, license etc, is it possible that they could come in the future?

Pro Hoc Vice

maiden wrote: »

No it definitely wasnt redated, I dont have the summons with me at the moment as I have given it my son's solicitor. There is one charge on it which I find a bit odd, it is for the theft of a vehicle, no reference to lack of insurance, license etc, is it possible that they could come in the future?

Taking of a vehicle can be tried as summary or indictment so is excluded from the Petty Session Ireland Act 1851. The no insurance no licence are if memory serves covered by the act so too late to make a complaint in those. But in any event you son now has a solicitor so he will be able to properly advice on the matter.