Eircom v Local Supplier

fifth

Hi all,

Got nabbed by a PhoneWatch salesman last weekend. Signed up for the following:

2 keyfobs
Dummy external bell box (with flashing light)
Internal bell box & control panel
2 door contacts (front/back)
motion sensors x 4 (kitchen, sitting room, landing, hall)
GSM unit (i have a fibre broadband connection with a VOIP line in the house)
and monitoring @ 25per month ('fixed' for 3 years!!).

Then I just seen an advert in my local paper for this

http://www.crimewatch.ie/wirefree_alarm_systems/the-viper-wireless-security-system.html

€499 + 6 months free monitoring.

Anyone know what that system is? The site doesn't give a whole lot of detail. Asked for more info & a quote so waiting to hear back.

If anyone in Wexford even has used this company or can offer some opinions on this alarm (judging by the pic alone) or eircom, that would be good.

Thanks

Btw, I will also add that eircom are now saying that the GSM unit can't be jammed as it's a new unit. This is customer service on the phone and not just the salespeople.

KoolKid

The System is Pyronix I'd say.
Don't rush into anything. Any licensed installer can provide you with a monitored alarm. Get yourself at least 3 other quotes & compare equipment supplied & services provided.
Some examples
Eircom systems usually don't include a bell, most other systems would.
Eircom & some other monitoring & maintenance contracts limit the number of call outs etc, others don't .
Eircom will try to tie you to their phone lines and try to tell you other providers like UPC don't work. Also don't get your self tied into 3 or 5 year contracts. Most will offer year by year monitoring.
Insist on a proper survey of your property & don't accept a quote over the phone or online. This will only lead to surprise extras later.
As a minimum all downstairs windows should be protected by inertia's & contacts to protect against opening & forced entry.
After that a couple of PiRs to verify alarms for Garda response.
Some of the cheaper options will offer PiRs or contacts, this is not sufficient for a monitored alarm if you want Garda response.

fifth

KoolKid wrote: »

The System is Pyronix I'd say.
Don't rush into anything. Any licensed installer can provide you with a monitored alarm. Get yourself at least 3 other quotes & compare equipment supplied & services provided.
Some examples
Eircom systems usually don't include a bell, most other systems would.
Eircom & some other monitoring & maintenance contracts limit the number of call outs etc, others don't .
Eircom will try to tie you to their phone lines and try to tell you other providers like UPC don't work. Also don't get your self tied into 3 or 5 year contracts. Most will offer year by year monitoring.
Insist on a proper survey of your property & don't accept a quote over the phone or online. This will only lead to surprise extras later.
As a minimum all downstairs windows should be protected by inertia's & contacts to protect against opening & forced entry.
After that a couple of PiRs to verify alarms for Garda response.
Some of the cheaper options will offer PiRs or contacts, this is not sufficient for a monitored alarm if you want Garda response.

Hi Koolkid,

Am glad you replied - I've seen some of your other posts. Eircom rep told me inertia sensors on the windows aren't a good idea as they are easily triggered? And can cause false alarms, also the window pane can be removed..

Re: the external bell box, they said it's a 'nuisance' to neighbours & especially if it's triggered from a false alarm. I think I could live with the neighbours being a bit peeved it's not like we get on with them very well anyway :rolleyes:

So I should get a company to come out and assess. I'd be willing to pay a decent sum to get this done correctly. Also, we are renting currently and planning to have our own house in the next 3 years or so. What should I be expecting to pay (roughly) in deinstall/reinstall fees? Eircom are quoting €90 to remove and €650 to reinstall the alarm at new property.. is this a little excessive?

Also, could you (or are you allowed) recommend a good company that can assess + install relatively sharpish, a decent system for a 3 bed semi detached, at a reasonable cost?

Btw, going to cancel my eircom contract while I still have a couple days left to do so and have another think.

KoolKid

These are the sort of answers you get when you have sales reps selling you an alarm. They have no installation experience & they don't understand the system they are selling.
I had one of them try to tell me to take out my Siemens System & replace it with theirs because I didn't need all the extra features that Siemens have.:eek:
They only install inertia's on one hand & on the other they are a nuisance to others.
Inertia's work fine if they are installed correctly, they work even better if they are installed with contacts as well.
Now a bell is no good because the neighbours will hear it.??:eek:
Ehhh, that's the idea of an alarm isn't it?
Yes get yourself a few people to call out & access your house properly.
They will then give you a detailed system design proposal free of charge.
Use this to compare systems and get what suits your needs the best.
Take a look at the sticky here for some installers
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055956748
There is also links in this post to the PSA register of licenced installers.

Jnealon

pyronix/castle Enforcer. It's a good system

Ninjakettle

Reading threads with interest as i'm after a system now for my folks house too.

I blanket emailed a few companies with basic description of the house (including no. of windows/doors) and asked for quick estimates on a minimum recommended system. I know this isn't thorough, but i thought i'd at least be able to spot a decent offering this way.

Just had one back and i was wondering what a charge to "Commission the System" would be?

If anyone's interested, the first quote included a Visonic panel, window sensor clips (x12, presumably PIRs?), door contacts(x4), external bell, 2 remotes. Came in just under 1,400E. Alarm monitoring was a yearly cost of under 200E.
Seems a bit steep, but then i don't know how good this equipment is yet without some research.

KoolKid

For 16 detection devices that's not a bad price. Make sure they are contacts & sensors for the windows & not PiRs. You want the alarm to activate prior to someone being in the house. The alarm monitoring is cheap as well. I would check what this covers. Generally you should have service maintenance & monitoring in one package. If that's the case ask are all call outs covered. If not its bad value. Some company s do this cheap and limit your calls to one or 2.
This is a bad deal, if the system is not properly maintained & you need extra call outs they will be charging you for the call. This is especially important with wireless where you can get a dodgy battery at any stage.
If its just monitoring on its own its too dear as well.
How do you mean a cost of commissioning?

Ninjakettle

Thanks for the response and info!

The quote specifies contacts for the doors, but Curtain clip "sensors" for the windows - no mention of contacts. What's the difference between PIRs and sensors?

I have a feeling the €200 charge listed to "Commission System" that i mentioned is probably the cost to "install" it?

Will certainly get break down of monitoring charge too!

KoolKid

It may mean curtain PiRs. Not a good idea. Again they have to be in through the window before it activates. Sensors/contacts on all ground floor and accessible windows would be the norm, plus 2 internal PiRs , say hall & landing.
Are you saying that quote is plus €200 installation?
This quote seems a bit strange. Did you get a full system design proposal listing all devices & locations etc. For this to be done correctly you should really be getting a free survey of your property. This ensures all required areas are cover correctly & there are no costly extras later.

Ninjakettle

I think it is curtain PiRs - so i'll take your warning on board and will be weighing this up against other quotes i hope to get soon.

I haven't got a full proper quote to be fair. I've just provided a plan of the house showing doors/windows/rooms. My idea was to mail this to a lot of providers in the Galway area and get rough estimates, and then based on their feedback i'd get detailed quotes off the 3 most promising. Some great info on this forum so far that has really helped get an idea of what's involved.

I've seen a few 'wireless' security kits at this stage now too. Do you think it's advisable to buy the main unit/wireless contacts/wireless Room PiRs/wireless Bell - and installing them ourselves and then purchasing a monitoring service?

altor

Ninjakettle wrote: »

I think it is curtain PiRs - so i'll take your warning on board and will be weighing this up against other quotes i hope to get soon.

I haven't got a full proper quote to be fair. I've just provided a plan of the house showing doors/windows/rooms. My idea was to mail this to a lot of providers in the Galway area and get rough estimates, and then based on their feedback i'd get detailed quotes off the 3 most promising. Some great info on this forum so far that has really helped get an idea of what's involved.

I've seen a few 'wireless' security kits at this stage now too. Do you think it's advisable to buy the main unit/wireless contacts/wireless Room PiRs/wireless Bell - and installing them ourselves and then purchasing a monitoring service?

The system itself needs to be maintained and certified by an installer to have it monitored. There is nothing stopping you installing the system and then getting a company to take over the maintenance and also setting up the monitoring. The installer will need to make sure its installed to current standards.

It is an expensive quote for the Visonic system.
Curtain motions would not be the route to take, its best to protect your perimeter and have a few PIRs for back up. The Visonic Powermax system is one of the cheaper systems on the market, not a bad system but you get what you pay for.

If you did want to use the Visonic system I would wait for there never power master system to release the shock sensors. It is going to be a lot better of a panel than the older Visonic systems.

Ninjakettle

altor wrote: »

I would wait for there never power master system to release the shock sensors. It is going to be a lot better of a panel than the older Visonic systems.

Yes, saw this discussed on another thread - do you think we'll see these in the next few weeks (months?) I'd be more comfortable getting the most modern offering but staying with a pocket friendly (and by all accounts quite decent) brand. I am quite liking the idea of giving the installation a go myself and handing it over as you say. Daunting! but who doesn't like a challenge

altor

Ninjakettle wrote: »

Yes, saw this discussed on another thread - do you think we'll see these in the next few weeks (months?) I'd be more comfortable getting the most modern offering but staying with a pocket friendly (and by all accounts quite decent) brand. I am quite liking the idea of giving the installation a go myself and handing it over as you say. Daunting! but who doesn't like a challenge

There is no release date, all I can say is they are working on it
Wire free systems are easy enough to install. Sure if you get into any bother this is a good place to ask for help

KoolKid

The last I hear on these sensors is that Visonic are finished testing the devices. They are at manufacturing tests now.
Hopefully not too long.
On a side note I am hearing good reports from ISEC on the new GSD wireless systems with IP & smart phone apps.
If that comes in at the right price it could be very interesting. I'm off tomorrow to take a look..:)

altor

The panel does not look great.

KoolKid

I like the feature of putting your logo on the screen like with Siemens.
A good reliable wireless system with IP at the right price , I'd be happy with that.
Looks are up to the individual, I'm, no mad on the look of any of the all in one systems, but that's the way the market is at the moment. Between apps & wireless fobs etc the panel & keypad are becoming less relevant.
After all your shiny phone or tablet can make one hell of a wireless keypad.

Ninjakettle

Looking forward to hearing what you think of them. In general are GSD as a brand positioned at the same price\competition level as Visionic?

KoolKid

I'm hoping they come in around the same as Visonic & Siemens on wireless devices. That would certainly liven the market up with an entry level IP panel and another one with free apps & no annual charges for access.

altor

Ninjakettle wrote: »

Looking forward to hearing what you think of them. In general are GSD as a brand positioned at the same price\competition level as Visionic?

GSD have being bringing out there wireless system for as long as i care to remember, at grade 3 and up so hence the problems they where having. I have installed the wire free access control system they have. Signals keep dropping so to be honest I would not be rushing into using this system for a long time...
Good to see its a two way system so at lease there will be more information back at the panel re any issues that might happen.

KoolKid

I agree.
They made a total mess of the last launch. Like some others they were making promises and giving dates they just couldn't live up to.
I hope what I am hearing is true. That this is ready and the IP and apps are fully developed.
Later on ill see and let you know what I find.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I agree.
They made a total mess of the last launch. Like some others they were making promises and giving dates they just couldn't live up to.
I hope what I am hearing is true. That this is ready and the IP and apps are fully developed.
Later on ill see and let you know what I find.

Might pop in for a quick look too.
Hopefully they will not be saying yes its ready only to find out it not like the last one

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

Hopefully they will not be saying yes its ready only to find out it not like the last one

I agree, there's enough of that going on already..

KoolKid

Instead of dragging this thread on about the GSD system I have started a new thread here.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=84103845#post84103845